[ohiogolf]

Just a quick legal note...right to work laws have nothing to do with the termination rights of employees or employers. Right to work laws simply ban mandatory union membership obligations in the presence of a collective bargaining agreement. References to florida being a right to work state in this fact situation is irrelevant.

[mulligan]

Except that without the right to work legislation, union protection exists for everyone, and more often than not raises the local standard of living.

[TrudyM]

Originally Posted by HMLRHT1

Absolutely correct Mulligan! No unions so no protection for the middle class!

My husband is the council rep (like a union steward) for the engineers in his area. All of a sudden after the long contract negotiations are over they start picking at his work. Sited for coming into work too early. Sited for taking off two hours early to go to the doctor. They doubled his acceptable work load level and then started writing him up if he didn't meet it or worked overtime. The union says they can get him involuntary layoff and 1 week of pay for each year employed but that's about it. Good thing he was planning to retire soon. The contract negotiations went on for almost a year as Boeing is trying to break the union. It is how things are going. Look at the age of those on layoff lists sometimes most are over 55. Government says people should work to 67 now and thinking of increasing it to 70. But companies don't want anyone over 45 does anyone see a problem besides me.

[Cantwaittoarrive]

Originally Posted by mulligan

Except that without the right to work legislation, union protection exists for everyone, and more often than not raises the local standard of living.

Actually union protection only exist for union shops, not everyone. In non-right to work states every shop is not union and if they are not union they have no protection from the union.

[ilovetv]

Originally Posted by Number 6

I jsut don't get why the "fairness" of this concept is hard to understand. Let's say a company invests a lot of money into training and relocating an employee who decides to quit one day to work for a competitor (or just stop working, for that matter). Would you like to legislate against this side of "emloyment at will"?

Many people have no clue about what it actually costs an employer to operate a business, hire and pay people and actually have some income left to take home for their own family. It's much easier to just demonize the employer as "greedy" and "filthy rich". I know various people who could not care less about this....they feel they are entitled to whatever the small business owner has. They refuse to look at the years of indebtedness, sleepless nights, working 16-hour days/nights, taking huge risks, and investing everything they had to form it:

"NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- You probably cost your boss a lot more than you think you do.

For Jim Garland, who owns a corporate aircraft cleaning and support services company, a $14 per hour worker has a true cost of $19.63 per hour, or about 40% more than base pay. This so-called "loaded rate" includes fixed expenses -- federal and state taxes, health insurance, workman's compensation, uniforms, and paid time off -- along with soft costs like the time spent training a new hire.......

"Our entire existence revolves around two numbers: revenue and payroll," Garland said of Sharp Details, in Dulles, Va., which he launched out of his car trunk in 1991. Payroll for 60 workers accounts for around 70% of his firm's operating costs......."

Why a $14/hour employee costs $20 - Mar. 26, 2010

[rp001]

Originally Posted by ilovetv

Many people have no clue about what it actually costs an employer to operate a business, hire and pay people and actually have some income left to take home for their own family. It's much easier to just demonize the employer as "greedy" and "filthy rich". I know various people who could not care less about this....they feel they are entitled to whatever the small business owner has. They refuse to look at the years of indebtedness, sleepless nights, working 16-hour days/nights, taking huge risks, and investing everything they had to form it:

"NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- You probably cost your boss a lot more than you think you do.

For Jim Garland, who owns a corporate aircraft cleaning and support services company, a $14 per hour worker has a true cost of $19.63 per hour, or about 40% more than base pay. This so-called "loaded rate" includes fixed expenses -- federal and state taxes, health insurance, workman's compensation, uniforms, and paid time off -- along with soft costs like the time spent training a new hire.......

"Our entire existence revolves around two numbers: revenue and payroll," Garland said of Sharp Details, in Dulles, Va., which he launched out of his car trunk in 1991. Payroll for 60 workers accounts for around 70% of his firm's operating costs......."

Why a $14/hour employee costs $20 - Mar. 26, 2010

Poor, Poor corporations...No need for me to demonize them, they do a great job all by themselves...Corporate theft and greed at the expense of the dissolving middle class..

[Jerseygirl08]

Sorry to hear about your friend (relative?). That is too bad.

Unfortunately, this is the way of corporate America these days. It doesn't make it right - but its just the way it has become.

I worked in TV area for two years -as a nurse- and was so disgusted, I moved to California. I'm adventurous, but I also planned things out carefully, so that I wasn't really locked in if I decided I'd like to come back to FL. It's not easy for everyone to do that, I know. Especially when you are a single Mom with two children. I feel bad for her.

Long story short, my employer cut our pay $2 per hr. and doubled our work load. And corporate America isn't any different here; they just do it with more finese, better explanations, and a nice pat on your back if you voice your "concerns".

What has America become, I ask ????? It all so sad, but that's how it is. No wonder many people are losing faith. We all have to toughen up, I guess. The good days are over.

[gocubsgo]

Carriage House (Hawthorn Retirement) is having their huge open house over there today. Corporate people dressed up in matching fancy coats, passing out dipped strawberries, big smiles and brochures. Sad thing is, 3/4ths of the people going have no clue what an ugly mess it is over there behind all those fake smiles. Very sad...

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl08

...The good days are over.

Although things have definitely changed, I simply can't agree with you there. Keep the faith :^)

[buggyone]

A person has to do some personal research to show where good jobs are located. This part of Florida is not noted for being a good job market with good salaries. That should be part of a person's research. A chef at a retirement community does not make good money in this part of Florida.

Also, insist on a contract BEFORE beginning work that spells out benefits, working conditions, rules, termination clauses, etc.

I am afraid too many young workers are not knowlegable about finding good jobs - and they are out there - but want to stay close to Mom and Dad in case they have to move back home.

[Jerseygirl08]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

Although things have definitely changed, I simply can't agree with you there. Keep the faith :^)

Polar Bear, I really try to keep the faith. But I keep seeing the same thing gocubsgo (OP) describe and I just can't believe how bad its gotten for so many people.

But it is true. We must do our homework/research and ask for contracts. GETTING contracts may be another thing, but asking is the first step.
It takes more planning and forethought these days to prepare for a move, transfer, job change. That is for sure.

[travelguy]

unfortunately an employer can terminate your employment without any notice, but an employee should give 2 weeks notice as a courtesy. and then the employer can turn around and ask you to leave right then and there. it happens all the time. that does not make it ok, but that is the way it is. and it sucks.

[Number 6]

Originally Posted by travelguy

unfortunately an employer can terminate your employment without any notice, but an employee should give 2 weeks notice as a courtesy. and then the employer can turn around and ask you to leave right then and there. it happens all the time. that does not make it ok, but that is the way it is. and it sucks.

The key word here is "should". An employee can leave a job with no notice, in spite of all of the resources the corporation devoted to training the employee. I am just saying that it cuts both ways.