[Joe V.]

Originally Posted by Advogado

There is plenty of evidence of corruption, and the evidence is well known to residents who don't rely on the Daily Sun for their local news.

That is why the Developer's puppets got booted out, last year, IN THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY by a 2-to-1 margin. Is it criminal corruption and can enough evidence be found for a criminal conviction? We will only know the answer if Florida law enforcement conducts a serious investigation, which seems unlikely. (The people with first-hand knowledge of the relevant facts are unlikely to heed your request to share the evidence with us.)

If you are really interested in understanding what has gone on and continues to go on, take a look at Hage's co-sponsorship of legislation worth hundreds of millions of dollars to the Developer (at the expense of Sumter County residents) while apparently on the payroll of the Developer and T&D.

So, no evidence of corruption. Just your opinions. "If" is not prima facea evidence. Thanks.

[tvbound]

Florida isn't much different than a lot of places, in that the attitude of "whatever it takes for my people to stay in power" and "the best government money can buy" - seems to be the prevailing sentiment.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by tvbound

Florida isn't much different than a lot of places, in that the attitude of "whatever it takes for my people to stay in power" and "the best government money can buy" - seems to be the prevailing sentiment.

There's not a lot of quality government when most of the previous year you relied on revenue from tourism during a pandemic when most things were shut down.

You get what you pay for. The lower the taxes (including no income tax, plus massive tax breaks for corporations and the uber-wealthy), the less money you have available to buy a quality government. Not that I think we need an income tax - but we, as a state (exclusive of the Villages which is a different plane of existence on another planet), need to make improvements in the revenue stream and improvements in distribution of funds.

[Bilyclub]

Most of the modern politicians are in it for the money. The days of a modest person like Harry Truman rising through the political ranks are gone. In the quest for millions they ride that gray area to riches.

[Advogado]

Originally Posted by Joe V.

So, no evidence of corruption. Just your opinions. "If" is not prima facea evidence. Thanks.

Hardly just my opinion.

The Hage-gate scandal is well documented, as is the whole history of the Developer's relationship with his puppet Sumter County Commissioners, his backing of One Sumter, his sweetheart deal with impact fees, the use of fake candidates to disenfranchise voters in the last Republican primary, avoidance of the $1,000 cap on local-election campaign contributions, the conduct of George Angeliadis's fishing expedition to try to intimidate the new Commissioners and their supporters, etc.

[Joe V.]

Originally Posted by Advogado

Hardly just my opinion.

The Hage-gate scandal is well documented, as is the whole history of the Developer's relationship with his puppet Sumter County Commissioners, his backing of One Sumter, his sweetheart deal with impact fees, the use of fake candidates to disenfranchise voters in the last Republican primary, avoidance of the $1,000 cap on local-election campaign contributions, the conduct of George Angeliadis's fishing expedition to try to intimidate the new Commissioners and their supporters, etc.

I see no one charged or indicted for any of your claims. Fortunately the majority of the state legislature had the wisdom to prevent the collapse of future economic growth of the state by renegade county commissioners. Making it retroactive to Jan, 1st was another win for sustained growth in Sumter County.

[Aloha1]

Originally Posted by Advogado

There is plenty of evidence of corruption, and the evidence is well known to residents who don't rely on the Daily Sun for their local news.

That is why the Developer's puppets got booted out, last year, IN THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY by a 2-to-1 margin. Is it criminal corruption and can enough evidence be found for a criminal conviction? We will only know the answer if Florida law enforcement conducts a serious investigation, which seems unlikely. (The people with first-hand knowledge of the relevant facts are unlikely to heed your request to share the evidence with us.)

If you are really interested in understanding what has gone on and continues to go on, take a look at Hage's co-sponsorship of legislation worth hundreds of millions of dollars to the Developer (at the expense of Sumter County residents) while apparently on the payroll of the Developer and T&D.

Well, perhaps you can tell us EXACTLY what these "corrupt" things are. Please detail exactly what the crimes are and what laws were broken. We'll wait....

[Advogado]

Originally Posted by Aloha1

Well, perhaps you can tell us EXACTLY what these "corrupt" things are. Please detail exactly what the crimes are and what laws were broken. We'll wait....

Corruption may or may not be criminal, and any criminality is not going to be provable except via a criminal investigation by the appropriate authorities.

"Corruption" is defined as dishonest or fraudulent conduct by those in power. I have provided examples of actions that most people would consider corrupt. If you want more details, they are readily available through the use of Goggle. You will find a number of relevant, verifiable facts in articles in the on-line newspaper.

[Advogado]

Originally Posted by Joe V.

I see no one charged or indicted for any of your claims. Fortunately the majority of the state legislature had the wisdom to prevent the collapse of future economic growth of the state by renegade county commissioners. Making it retroactive to Jan, 1st was another win for sustained growth in Sumter County.

Those so-called "renegade" county Commissioners were overwhelmingly elected by the residents of Sumter County. Those residents were outraged about being hit with a 25% property-tax increase, enacted by the Developer's puppet Commissioners to protect the Developer's sweetheart impact fee.

[Joe V.]

Originally Posted by Advogado

Those so-called "renegade" county Commissioners were overwhelmingly elected by the residents of Sumter County. Those residents were outraged about being hit with a 25% property-tax increase, enacted by the Developer's puppet Commissioners to protect the Developer's sweetheart impact fee.

Too bad for you there are way more representatives of the people in the legislature that have their economic wits about them and saved state's and the county's future economic success.

[Joe V.]

Originally Posted by Advogado

Corruption may or may not be criminal, and any criminality is not going to be provable except via a criminal investigation by the appropriate authorities.

"Corruption" is defined as dishonest or fraudulent conduct by those in power. I have provided examples of actions that most people would consider corrupt. If you want more details, they are readily available through the use of Goggle. You will find a number of relevant, verifiable facts in articles in the on-line newspaper.

You have provided no evidence of corruption. Just your sour grapes.

[Dond1959]

Originally Posted by Advogado

While you are a former finance guy, I am a former corporate lawyer who used to have to review business plans and cut through the unrealistic assumptions that you finance guys would make.

As I have stated in the past, my figure of “hundreds of millions” is not an exaggeration. In a nutshell, while the exact amount of the impact fees that the Developer should be paying cannot be calculated without an impact study, it is instructive to look at what he would pay in Collier County, which has done the study for a retirement community's impact on county infrastructure. In that County, the Developer would pay more than $20,000 more per house than he pays here. Go to the Collier County website for proof.

The Developer is going to build 60,000 additional houses here. 60,000 houses x $20,000/house = $1.2 billion value to the Developer from his sweetheart impact fee (and cost to the current residents). Furthermore, the $1.2 billion does not include the amount the Developer gets from the sweetheart fee on his commercial buildings.

But you are right, the 75% road-impact fee increase was not enough to total what the Developer should be paying. In addition to roads, the Developer needs to pay an impact fee for other county infrastructure, like fire, ems, police, libraries, parks, government buildings, etc. He would have to pay it in Collier County, where he doesn't control the County Commission. He, and not the current residents, should be bearing the cost here. If you were following the news, you would know that our new County Commissioners have voted to conduct an impact-fee study regarding those additional infrastructure items. However, the Developer appears to have out maneuvered our new Commissioners in Tallahassee.

Bottom line: if anything, my figure of "hundreds of millions” is far from an exaggeration. It may well be an understatement of the benefit to the Developer and the cost to the residents.

BTW, what do you think of Hage's actions?

Come on, in one previous post you told me you were a SA for the FBI in New Jersey. Now a corporate lawyer? Hundreds of millions include homes that have not been built at a rate that no one, including the current commissioners in Sumter County, have ever stated is the correct amount. Again, your numbers don’t add up. As far as Hage, all politicians listen to businesses in the area they represent. If there is a specific law he violated please report it to the appropriate authorities.

It is amazing that people are shocked that politicians are influenced by businesses. I guess labor unions and teachers unions don’t do the same thing or worse. Trial lawyers have no influence right? How about, never mind…I am sure you stopped listening.

[Advogado]

Originally Posted by Joe V.

So, no evidence of corruption. Just your opinions. "If" is not prima facea evidence. Thanks.

I have provided plenty of evidence of corruption, all of which is publicly available from other sources as well, not just from me. You decide if you think that the evidence of corruption is proof of criminal corruption. I would be particularly interested in your views on Hage's actions on behalf of his employer, the Developer.

[Advogado]

Originally Posted by Dond1959

Come on, in one previous post you told me you were a SA for the FBI in New Jersey. Now a corporate lawyer? Hundreds of millions include homes that have not been built at a rate that no one, including the current commissioners in Sumter County, have ever stated is the correct amount. Again, your numbers don’t add up. As far as Hage, all politicians listen to businesses in the area they represent. If there is a specific law he violated please report it to the appropriate authorities.

It is amazing that people are shocked that politicians are influenced by businesses. I guess labor unions and teachers unions don’t do the same thing or worse. Trial lawyers have no influence right? How about, never mind…I am sure you stopped listening.

All statements that I have made are true, including those about my background.

[Ben Franklin]

Making people who already live in the county pay for the future, that new homebuyers create IS government taking your money and giving it to new homebuyers. It's also called socialism. These politicians are Republican in name only.