[Prizmz]

Is it factor fiction that the plastic gas lines in attics cause the extensive damage when lightning strikes? Would replacement with copper pipes make a significant difference?

[ijusluvit]

It is a fact. Seven TV homes in less than seven years have been destroyed literally within minutes. Direct lightning strikes which burned small holes in the roof quickly melted the flexible lines and essentially caused a natural gas explosion. The lines are plastic clad soft metal, but no match even for a small flame. A class action lawsuit several years ago found two or three major manufacturers of this flex pipe liable for damages and awarded settlements to homeowners in amounts sufficient to have lightning protection systems installed on their homes. The settlement eligibility period expired over a year ago.

I am not aware of anyone who has ever replaced flex gas line with either rigid copper or steel pipe. The problem is the proximity of the lines to open flames caused by roof fires started by lightning strikes. My opinion is that rigid copper lines would be nearly as vulnerable as flex lines and that steel pipe would be vulnerable as well. There is enough information already published about this to conclude that no home in Central Florida which has attic gas lines is safe without a properly installed lightning protection system.

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by ijusluvit

It is a fact. Seven TV homes in less than seven years have been destroyed literally within minutes. Direct lightning strikes which burned small holes in the roof quickly melted the flexible lines and essentially caused a natural gas explosion. The lines are plastic clad soft metal, but no match even for a small flame. A class action lawsuit several years ago found two or three major manufacturers of this flex pipe liable for damages and awarded settlements to homeowners in amounts sufficient to have lightning protection systems installed on their homes. The settlement eligibility period expired over a year ago.

I am not aware of anyone who has ever replaced flex gas line with either rigid copper or steel pipe. The problem is the proximity of the lines to open flames caused by roof fires started by lightning strikes. My opinion is that rigid copper lines would be nearly as vulnerable as flex lines and that steel pipe would be vulnerable as well. There is enough information already published about this to conclude that no home in Central Florida which has attic gas lines is safe without a properly installed lightning protection system.

There are mixed reports on the value of a lightning protection system when a direct strike occurs.

[chuckinca]

I recommend a welded (not threaded) schedule 80 steel line.

[Kelsie52]

Originally Posted by chuckinca

I recommend a welded (not threaded) schedule 80 steel line.

There was an extensive discussion on this topic a few months back--on this site ---several homeowners changed the flex it to black pipe---

I am a manager for a utility here in NY and do not like the idea of gas lines in the attic period ...thats why when I get there in June to purchase my new home --It will be electric only

[dillywho]

Is it possible to convert from gas to all electric? Everything we have, with the exception of the water heater and heating, is electric. If so, any ideas on cost to convert and get rid of the gas lines?

[JohnN]

interesting thread, gas to all electric? I don't know.
wiring can handle the dryer, but I'm not sure about the heat

[dillywho]

Originally Posted by JohnN

interesting thread, gas to all electric? I don't know.
wiring can handle the dryer, but I'm not sure about the heat

I already am using an electric dryer and my stove is electric, as well. The only 2 things I have that are gas are the heating unit itself and the water heater.

[ijusluvit]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

There are mixed reports on the value of a lightning protection system when a direct strike occurs.

I have not been able to find a report anywhere about any house with a properly installed lightning protection system, which suffered sufficient fire damage from a lightning strike to result in igniting the attic gas line.

Have you seen such a case?

[zcaveman]

Originally Posted by ijusluvit

I have not been able to find a report anywhere about any house with a properly installed lightning protection system, which suffered sufficient fire damage from a lightning strike to result in igniting the attic gas line.

Have you seen such a case?

I have never seen a report on what damage houses in the Villages with a lightening protection system has received and if it caused less damages - period.

Also, I am not sure if the lightening strikes on the houses you mention were all lightening strikes. I think that Fire Chief Tucker said that a few on the latest fires were electrical related and one was a golf cart.

To my knowledge all of the houses north of 466 are gas and all houses south of 466 and west of LSL are gas - with the exception of the few that opted to be an all electric house.

I have to think that the state of Florida and the developer felt safe in running the gas lines through the attic.

My one question would be - and it is probably fostered by the action movies - but if the gas line in the attic exploded wouldn't the house go kaboom instead of just burn?

And an FYI for you that opt for the lightening protecting system, be sure to read the latest POA article about getting an authorized installer.

[SteveFromNY]

Google lightning protection - look for pictures. You'll see lightning hitting buildings. One site said the Empire State Building gets hit 100 times per year. No damage because of LPS.

Look around - the fire house on Buena Vista and the buildings in LSL, the airport, municipal buildings, skyscrapers, they all have lightning protection systems. Would they do this if it didn't work?

I indtalled one in my house as a relatively cheap form of insurance against a lightning hit. Will I ever know it worked? I hope not, but it's there now.

Oh, one other thought - even an all electric house can be struck by lightning. It may not have the same potential for catastophe as one with flex gas lines in the attic, but it can be damaged nonetheless. Maybe it won't burn down, but a large hole in the roof can't be something you'll enjoy dealing with.

Remember, we live in what some consider to be the lightning capital of the world, just having all electric won't stop the lightning.

[Rag Bagger]

I am not confident that the lightning protection systems can handle a direct lightening strike. I really don't think they can.

I sailed boats all my life and the discussion of bonding a boat and lightening protection was always often discussed with both views being argued.

On a sailboat the aluminum mast is a great conductor. The therory was to connect all major metal compenents (bonding) with copper straps and then a special plate thru bolted from the hull under water to the mast and all the copper straps tied to that plate. I think the minimum wire gage is 1/8" dia. I just can see a dinky wire like that handeling all the surge from a lightening strike. More often than not even a sailboat is not hit by lightening so everbody can say, see my plan worked. Lightening protection no lightening protection.

I saw some really strange stuff around boats. Lightening is very very unpredictable. One time in our marina a 27 foot boat was struck. The lightening came down the mast and stays to the chainplates and then down the side of the fiberglass hull and perferated the hull at the waterline as the lightening exited the boat. This boat was docked right between two boats that had significantly taller masts. None of the boats had bonding systems in place.

I was anchored one time within a hundred yards of a boat that was stuck. The radio antena at the mast head blew to pieces and came down in a shower of sparks. The boat had minor damage. We also had damage because we were so close. It took out some of our more sensitive electronics. No visible damage just fried internal boards.

Most boats are not protected. But to protect their butts all manufactures publish the Coast Guard instructions on how to bond the boats rigg and then leave it up to the owner. Aluminum and steel boats do not have an issue as they are a giant conductor and really can dissipate a lightening strike.

I guess i am just rying to say I would not rely on a lightening rod as a save all.

I really think gas lines in the attic is just plain stupid but they do it here. Go figure. The flex lines are just as dumb but the gas lines shouldn't be in the attic in the first place.

Lightening is fickled. Planes get struck while most don't. Same with people, houses, trees and boats. Just keep your head down and keep up with the insurance payments.

[ijusluvit]

Originally Posted by Rag ******

I am not confident that the lightning protection systems can handle a direct lightening strike. I really don't think they can.

I sailed boats all my life and the discussion of bonding a boat and lightening protection was always often discussed with both views being argued.

On a sailboat the aluminum mast is a great conductor. The therory was to connect all major metal compenents (bonding) with copper straps and then a special plate thru bolted from the hull under water to the mast and all the copper straps tied to that plate. I think the minimum wire gage is 1/8" dia. I just can see a dinky wire like that handeling all the surge from a lightening strike. More often than not even a sailboat is not hit by lightening so everbody can say, see my plan worked. Lightening protection no lightening protection.

I saw some really strange stuff around boats. Lightening is very very unpredictable. One time in our marina a 27 foot boat was struck. The lightening came down the mast and stays to the chainplates and then down the side of the fiberglass hull and perferated the hull at the waterline as the lightening exited the boat. This boat was docked right between two boats that had significantly taller masts. None of the boats had bonding systems in place.

I was anchored one time within a hundred yards of a boat that was stuck. The radio antena at the mast head blew to pieces and came down in a shower of sparks. The boat had minor damage. We also had damage because we were so close. It took out some of our more sensitive electronics. No visible damage just fried internal boards.

Most boats are not protected. But to protect their butts all manufactures publish the Coast Guard instructions on how to bond the boats rigg and then leave it up to the owner. Aluminum and steel boats do not have an issue as they are a giant conductor and really can dissipate a lightening strike.

I guess i am just rying to say I would not rely on a lightening rod as a save all.

I really think gas lines in the attic is just plain stupid but they do it here. Go figure. The flex lines are just as dumb but the gas lines shouldn't be in the attic in the first place.

Lightening is fickled. Planes get struck while most don't. Same with people, houses, trees and boats. Just keep your head down and keep up with the insurance payments.

If you want to feel more confident about lightning protection, consult recent issues of the POA newsletter, as the advice above suggests. As you say, lightning is fickle, and the stuff of lots of misinformation. The POA has done us all a great service by publishing well researched articles and sponsoring presentations by experts. Just go here and track the topic in several issues:

http://www.ccfj.net/POABull.html

[A-1 Lightning Protection]

Lightning Protection Systems work only if the system has been installed to codes. Always make sure your installer, installs to UL 96/96A, NFPA 780, and LPI 175. All three organizations do not make codes that don't work. A UL Master Label Certification is also suggested in verifying that your installer knows what he doing. Always check UL.com/lightning under listed installers and Lightning.org, under Dealer/Contractor to be sure your installer is LPI certified Master Installer/Designer. If you cannot verify that your installer is listed in these categories, turn your head and run, lightning protection is one of those things that draws the Gypsies.

As for the CSST, the problem can be easily be rectified by common bonding and grounding. What happens is that a direct lightning strike or a nearby lightning strike can cause static electricity and create small pin holes in the piping (you can picture a blow torch to understand the consequences of this pinhole). The problem with the piping is that it is so thin that it does not carry a ground. What was required per the federal lawsuit gas line schematic, Bond to the gas, the manifold, and any accessible exhaust, thus making everything the same electrical potential and all the charge will run of the wiring eliminating any static charge on the gas piping. Below is a typical installation of rectifying the CSST issue.

[Rag Bagger]

There is a lot of debate about how or if Lightening Rod systems really will prevent or lessen a strike. The proponents Mfgs. of systems will fight to the end that it works. Government agencies will never suggest that they may not work because they don't want to stick out their neck. The NFPA has a bulletin NFPA-780 that has the guidelines but many people in and out of the agency don't know or think it will work.

Read this to understand the reason for doubt. http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...ds-really-work

The problem is if you don't have rods and you get struck it is assumed that the rods would have prevented the strike or bled off the strike. It just doesn't seem possible for a few relatively light gauge cables will work. That is what is the bone of contention. If you have ever been really close (100 feet) when a strike goes to ground it is unbelievable the shock wave and how much electricity dances around in the air.

You will never be criticised for adding a lightening system just be aware it may or may not work. A Faraday Cage is the only thing that would prevent a strike on a house and that's not practical.