[Markgolf]

Originally Posted by SHIBUMI

If you hit 5 full buckets of balls a week for a year, your 2,500$ is covered. Add in some free instruction, bunker area, grass tee, and chip/putt green it's a great deal............Premier Range

I respect your response. I don’t hit that many balls. The villages do have some great instructors. I’ve considered the pkg. But it’s not for me and doesn’t address the shortcomings of mats and what we could possibly do with what we already pay.

It’s amazing the # of palettes of sod that I see daily in the villages. It’s amazing how fast they erect villages.

Is it wrong for me to reason that the Villages could modify what they are doing with better dialogue.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by Markgolf

What is the reasoning for so many golf courses and so little grass driving ranges? The obvious answer is money. How would one go about trying to change this? With so much good going on here it’s a disgrace to have people pound balls off mats

Originally Posted by Markgolf

Most things are about money. Just because you haven’t reasoned an alternative doesn’t mean a solution doesn’t exist. Further, I find your assignment of me to the washed masses as a form projection, a red herring, and a form of tribalism.

I find you too miserable at this time to engage. Not that I am above you - it’s just that you are basically disrespectful.

Well, considering the current situation (generally, mats at most ranges) has existed in TV for some 30+ years, it's perhaps naive to suggest after a month and 9 posts, that you have a better solution and are prepared to change the world. To say nothing of the fact, you made an unfounded proclamation that it's a strictly a financial consideration, when in fact, it's primarily practical.

No worries, most everyone who moves to TV, thinks they know better than the folks who have been in charge for 40 years.

[SHIBUMI]

Okay, go into your yard and hit some whiffle balls with your irons and make divots. Do this for 1 month and you will have no yard left. Imagine 1,000 people a day doing that and that's the answer to your dilemma, grass mats. Money does rule the world in case you missed that. Its always the underlying driver of things.

5 acres of tee area needed becomes 10 houses becomes 5,000,000$ in property. Never mind what the range area needs for land.

Mats are not the problem. Watch people on the range, most shots are topped, hit fat, sliced, hooked, maybe 2 out of 10 look like a golf shot, if lucky. But they are having fun because they come back tomorrow and do the same thing. No need for grass here. And thats okay because they are having fun. Mats are fine. Even for lower handicappers.

Yeah, unwashed is a little brutal, but, you do get away from the mats on the Premier Range at Sarasota. It's kind of like buying a house in the Enclave, you get away from the masses, washed and unwashed. Another of life's realities. Chill out! Take a golf lesson and get washed.

Originally Posted by Markgolf

Most things are about money. Just because you haven’t reasoned an alternative doesn’t mean a solution doesn’t exist. Further, I find your assignment of me to the washed masses as a form projection, a red herring, and a form of tribalism.

I find you too miserable at this time to engage. Not that I am above you - it’s just that you are basically disrespectful.

[Markgolf]

Originally Posted by Justputt

EZTee and XGrass are pretty good to hit off of without the issues of real grass or the feel of those thin cheesy mats.

I’ll check them out. Thanks!

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by Markgolf

Then there is the shank thing. Fair to say you are attacking the ball with a different intention off the mat than the grass.

Originally Posted by Markgolf

If we think the grass at oxford is good I am going to question your golf experiences.

Hitting a shank has nothing to do with the surface you're hitting off. Hitting a shank is always a result of improper clubface path. (& 90% of the time, it results from a change in spine angle.)

[SHIBUMI]

Recent studies show a loosening of right hand grip pressure on the downswing will cause a shank also. No single golf cause is 90% when dealing with humans.

Originally Posted by BrianL99

Hitting a shank has nothing to do with the surface you're hitting off. Hitting a shank is always a result of improper clubface path. (& 90% of the time, it results from a change in spine angle.)

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

Hitting a shank has nothing to do with the surface you're hitting off. Hitting a shank is always a result of improper clubface path. (& 90% of the time, it results from a change in spine angle.)

Originally Posted by SHIBUMI

Recent studies show a loosening of right hand grip pressure on the downswing will cause a shank also. No single golf cause is 90% when dealing with humans.

The next time you're on the range (hitting from those mats) and you see someone hit a shank ... watch. 9 out 10 times, you'll see 1 of (2) errors. They change their spine angle (usually becoming more upright) somewhere in the swing or ... they "hump the goat" ... push their pelvis closer to the ball on the downswing.

[SHIBUMI]

All tin cup did was put his change in the other pocket!!!! Don't like to watch shanks, bad visual.

Originally Posted by BrianL99

The next time you're on the range (hitting from those mats) and you see someone hit a shank ... watch. 9 out 10 times, you'll see 1 of (2) errors. They change their spine angle (usually becoming more upright) somewhere in the swing or ... they "hump the goat" ... push their pelvis closer to the ball on the downswing.

[Markgolf]

Originally Posted by HORNET

Driving Ranges around the country also use mats. If as many use The Villages driving ranges, new golfers, there would be chopped up boxes. I think that The Villages does a great job!

All is true. The Villages do a great job at what they do.

Over the past few days I learned that grass tees were the original idea. The reason they transitioned to mats was the volume of hitting.

Well time has passed and we know more about golf mats. They are not very good on your equipment or your body. Ball speed, spin, and trajectory are affected by the mats. Low point control is adversely affected by the mats. Hitting shot after shot off a mostly square rug does little to nothing for one’s alignment skills.

My thought is to consider a change in thinking. Maybe have the villages build one grass range for every three championship golf courses. Maybe have a super range every 5 miles like there is a square every five miles. Lets create a dialogue to generate ideas that make sense with our current monies. I dont blame anyone trying to make as much money as they can, but with the number of golf holes that exist here it’s somewhat of a travesty not to have more grass tees. Many of us went “all in” moving here to live in a golf community. It is an obvious weak spot.

If the villages can build whole communities in 90 days it becomes somewhat insulting to think they cant manage a system to create more facilities with rotations of mats and grass. As more people become aware that synthetic mats can adversely affect ones game, ones body, and ones equipment the more people are going to choose other places to spend their retirement dollars. Small changes can go a long way.

[Markgolf]

Originally Posted by StillBruin

Even with rotation, if driving ranges were turf, the hitting areas would be divot ridden and/or a mess of uneven seed mix.

Never going to be perfect, I am just looking for average. If they increased the number of ranges slightly and or the design (four sided) they could have a significantly better product.

[SHIBUMI]

Mats do not affect golf swings. People affect golf swings. Spin trajectory and all that good stuff is negated by using lighter floating golfballs. Did not hear that complaint.

You have the ability to hit off grass, BUT, you don't want to pay for it. And if you don't use the range that much, whats the big deal.

The ranges, just like the golf courses are designed to satisfy the masses. And they do and for those few people that insist on grass, just pay for it. Life is not a free popsicle.

Originally Posted by Markgolf

All is true. The Villages do a great job at what they do.

Over the past few days I learned that grass tees were the original idea. The reason they transitioned to mats was the volume of hitting.

Well time has passed and we know more about golf mats. They are not very good on your equipment or your body. Ball speed, spin, and trajectory are affected by the mats. Low point control is adversely affected by the mats. Hitting shot after shot off a mostly square rug does little to nothing for one’s alignment skills.

My thought is to consider a change in thinking. Maybe have the villages build one grass range for every three championship golf courses. Maybe have a super range every 5 miles like there is a square every five miles. Lets create a dialogue to generate ideas that make sense with our current monies. I dont blame anyone trying to make as much money as they can, but with the number of golf holes that exist here it’s somewhat of a travesty not to have more grass tees. Many of us went “all in” moving here to live in a golf community. It is an obvious weak spot.

If the villages can build whole communities in 90 days it becomes somewhat insulting to think they cant manage a system to create more facilities with rotations of mats and grass. As more people become aware that synthetic mats can adversely affect ones game, ones body, and ones equipment the more people are going to choose other places to spend their retirement dollars. Small changes can go a long way.

[Markgolf]

Originally Posted by SHIBUMI

Okay, go into your yard and hit some whiffle balls with your irons and make divots. Do this for 1 month and you will have no yard left. Imagine 1,000 people a day doing that and that's the answer to your dilemma, grass mats. Money does rule the world in case you missed that. Its always the underlying driver of things.

5 acres of tee area needed becomes 10 houses becomes 5,000,000$ in property. Never mind what the range area needs for land.

Mats are not the problem. Watch people on the range, most shots are topped, hit fat, sliced, hooked, maybe 2 out of 10 look like a golf shot, if lucky. But they are having fun because they come back tomorrow and do the same thing. No need for grass here. And thats okay because they are having fun. Mats are fine. Even for lower handicappers.

Yeah, unwashed is a little brutal, but, you do get away from the mats on the Premier Range at Sarasota. It's kind of like buying a house in the Enclave, you get away from the masses, washed and unwashed. Another of life's realities. Chill out! Take a golf lesson and get washed.

Sir, I taught golf at the highest level for 30 years, I still run seminars to educate those who are the best at what they do get better. There is a lot of truth that one can not define another’s utility. Some enjoy the exercise at the detriment of their bodies and or their games. Some enjoyed smoking till they became aware of what it was doing to them.

There are different types of surfaces that the villages can employ. I can give give reasons why one might go with one more than another. Also, having a lot experience teaching off of a mats I can tell you that the divots people take on the course in many case can be traced back to how they practice. There are ways to use surfaces that can benefit your game, but that is a different discussion. Grass is far better.

Listen, the villages do a great job. My hope is to create a dialogue so that we might revisit the subject. Seems there are more options up north with decreasing opportunities for grass in the south.

[Markgolf]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

Hitting a shank has nothing to do with the surface you're hitting off. Hitting a shank is always a result of improper clubface path. (& 90% of the time, it results from a change in spine angle.)

Shanks can occur a number of ways.

1) Hand path goes towards the target or away from the body going through the ball on the downswing.

2) One is told to hold the release through the ball. This can create the shanks and then manifest into the yips.

3) Grip pressure

4) Distance from the ball.

5) Body limitations

6) unclear understanding of how the ball interacts with the face

7 Focal dystonia

The list can go on. Mats affect the angle of attack in which the club is swung. It can do some damage to your confidence and your game. There is better information out there for the shanks than you have expressed. There are better options than accepting the status quo by remaining uninformed.

[mikempp]

The Sarasota aqua driving range now closes at 5pm. Thats sucks, supposed to close at dusk. They did this last year, I complained and then they just closed 5pm on Tuesdays. Now it's every day.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by Markgolf

Shanks can occur a number of ways.

1) Hand path goes towards the target or away from the body going through the ball on the downswing.

Mats affect the angle of attack in which the club is swung. .

Originally Posted by BrianL99

Hitting a shank has nothing to do with the surface you're hitting off. Hitting a shank is always a result of improper clubface path. (& 90% of the time, it results from a change in spine angle.)

Exactly. Shanks are always a result of improper path.

Distance from the ball, hands too close to the ball, poor vision and all the other nonsense, can contribute to improper path, but at the end of the day, path causes shanks, not the hitting surface.

The hottest trend in golf right now, is "virtual golf". Billions being invested, by people like Tiger Woods and Rory McIlroy. Guess what every shot on the next Next Tour is hit off of? yep, "mats". NEXT Golf Tour - Virtual Golf. Real Money.