[MDLNB]

Originally Posted by outlaw

Kids have taken over the family and priority pools. They're too noisy, always screaming and shouting, and the parents/grandparents think it's cute because it's their kids. If you want kids around all the time, why did you move to a 55+ development? Take your grandkids to Disneyworld, Seaworld, Universal, wherever. TV is turning into a vacation destination for grandkids because it is cheap to come here and use all the amenities, drive granddad's golf cart (cheaper than a E-ticket) and camp out at the pool all day for free. How would people like it if resident dogs were allowed at the family pools? Or Victoria Secret models were allowed? I didn't think so.

If you don't appreciate family pools, the option is going to the adult pool or the sports pool. Or, spend a little money and join the country club and use their private pool, with a bar and hot tub. I too have issue with the underage (<14) children driving golf carts on the roads, but that is up to their parents and grandparents if they don't wish to obey the traffic laws and put their children in harms way. As far as dogs being allowed at family pools? I don't use the family pools so if the community wants to vote on it, so be it. Everyone I know has either a dog or cat and treats them like children. I love animals. And don't get me started regarding VS models. I'd be at the pool all the time, soaking up the cancer radiation.

[MDLNB]

Originally Posted by Sandtrap328

The on-line article did not say which man threw the first punch. We do not know what Gramps said to the younger man nor in what tone it was said. We do not know if the girls were upset by what the man said in the pool. If Gramps had simply called nicely to his granddaughter that he would like her to come out of the pool, all this drama would not have happened.

Lots of unanswered questions because of a very poorly written article.

I agree that the article was lacking in detail. However, you seem to want to charge the grandfather with fault in the matter. You state that it would not have happened if the grandfather would have ignored a possible problem and took his child away, ignoring the fact that there were at least two other little children in the pool too. Don't get me wrong, he may have been culpable, but there is no indication that he was. There was charges against the other subject though. We can't rewrite the incident to suit our liberal feelings, against the written claims. We also can't take liberties with the information to form another totally unfounded scenario. But, conversation is interesting if not imaginative on here.

[Topspinmo]

Wow, now it's grandpa fault. Did grandpa walk up to children and try to start conversation, especially saying he likes to talk to young girls? NO. Would that not be red flag To any of use with children? I sure we don't know nothing what when on, except grandpa got attacked and his property stolen for the accused to escape. Those are the facts we know we can assume what we think when on, but it don't look good for the younger villager does it!

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by Bonny

The guy probably didn't leave because he's probably a hot head, LOL
Yes, it is so much fun seeing kids and even their younger than us parents. I enjoy talking with them in a lively conversation. I don't go to the pools anymore because we have our own, but when we did, I always talked to the little kids.

Wouldn't it be viewed different being strange man ( young or old) talking to very young girls alone away from guardians? Just saying you being lady would not be scrutinized like men are?

[golfing eagles]

I think I would vote for keeping the dogs at the family pool and inviting the Victoria's Secret models to the adult pool

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by MDLNB

I agree that the article was lacking in detail. However, you seem to want to charge the grandfather with fault in the matter. You state that it would not have happened if the grandfather would have ignored a possible problem and took his child away, ignoring the fact that there were at least two other little children in the pool too. Don't get me wrong, he may have been culpable, but there is no indication that he was. There was charges against the other subject though. We can't rewrite the incident to suit our liberal feelings, against the written claims. We also can't take liberties with the information to form another totally unfounded scenario. But, conversation is interesting if not imaginative on here.

I do not think I am taking liberty with the information just making the assumption that the Sumter County Sheriff's Office knows what it is doing. It did not charge the man with anything like making sexual advances on a minor. The grandfather charged into accusing the man without real evidence that he did anything wrong and the man got justifiably upset. Striking the grandfather is a criminal charge as is stealing the grandfather's cell phone. There probably would be other charges tacking on like evading arrest if this were not a situation where one hothead seems to have taken on another hothead. This is from the information Redwitch provided about the arguments at the pool heard by a TOTVer. I am a victim advocate as I have repeatedly said here since 2007 taking great risks with my career to improve victims' access to practical information accessible through or in libraries since January 1991 in my 224 613 Proejct. But, there is also common sense and accepting that most of the time the people involved in law enforcement investigations like this one, know exactly what they are doing. Try to empathize with each of the people in this real life drama. It sounds like the grandfather went way overboard protecting his grandchild. I do not have all the facts but assume that the Sumter County Sheriff's Office did a thorough investigation of this.

I will watch and see how this case is resolved. I do think that a good defense lawyer has a lot to work with in this one.

[outlaw]

Originally Posted by MDLNB

If you don't appreciate family pools, the option is going to the adult pool or the sports pool. Or, spend a little money and join the country club and use their private pool, with a bar and hot tub. I too have issue with the underage (<14) children driving golf carts on the roads, but that is up to their parents and grandparents if they don't wish to obey the traffic laws and put their children in harms way. As far as dogs being allowed at family pools? I don't use the family pools so if the community wants to vote on it, so be it. Everyone I know has either a dog or cat and treats them like children. I love animals. And don't get me started regarding VS models. I'd be at the pool all the time, soaking up the cancer radiation.

I joined the priority pools. They are also family pools. Kids pretty much every day in the summer and holiday season.

[outlaw]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

I don't get it. The reason for family pools is that grandkids DO visit. Who would move in to a 55+ community and not be able to have grandkids visit?
There are plenty of adult only pools, rarely are they overcrowded. Look at it this way---the family pools are an additional amenity for those who have visiting grandkids, the adult pools are "the norm". The priority pools may be a different matter, but how many people pay for priority membership just to get pools access? I imagine 99.9% do it for the golf. And if you did just get pool membership, you knew in advance it was a family pool. For those who want complete seclusion, put a pool on your lanai for about 100K (not serious)

I partially agree with you. But I think TV has designated too many pools for children. All the family pools and all the priority (country club) pools allow kids. North of 466, there are not that many adult only pools. And the sport pools are not designed for relaxing. In fact, one cannot go there and just lay out in a chair in the sun; there are only benches.

[Licismom]

I was taught by a very wise professor years ago that I have the right to swing my fist all I want. However, my right to swing my fist, ended where his nose begins. The same is true for inappropriate behaviour, speech and actions in the presence of others. Something some seem to have forgotten. It's called civility.

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

The reason for family pools is that grandkids DO visit. Who would move in to a 55+ community and not be able to have grandkids visit? There are plenty of adult only pools, rarely are they overcrowded. Look at it this way---the family pools are an additional amenity for those who have visiting grandkids, the adult pools are "the norm".

Originally Posted by Sandtrap328

The on-line article did not say which man threw the first punch. We do not know what Gramps said to the younger man nor in what tone it was said. We do not know if the girls were upset by what the man said in the pool. If Gramps had simply called nicely to his granddaughter that he would like her to come out of the pool, all this drama would not have happened. Lots of unanswered questions because of a very poorly written article.

Don't bother us with your sensible, well-written posts.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Barefoot

Don't bother us with your sensible, well-written posts.

Sorry, bad habit

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Licismom

I was taught by a very wise professor years ago that I have the right to swing my fist all I want. However, my right to swing my fist, ended where his nose begins. The same is true for inappropriate behaviour, speech and actions in the presence of others. Something some seem to have forgotten. It's called civility.

I was taught the same thing.


And others who loved me chimed in. People who swagger and brag they are strong and have all kinds of degrees in martial arts makes everyone wonder why they are saying that. Most smart people don't EVER have to use force in their lives. EVER. They work hard to live where it is safe-er. They don't do unnecessary confrontations. They sense trouble and avoid it, are diplomatic in their speech and gently back away from folks who look dangerous.


Howsomever, I would and could rip apart anyone who tried to harm my children....but...if their teacher or a neighbor said they had eaten the strawberries or were late for class I would believe the teacher or neighbor and my kids would hear an earful.


As I said before, I would have gotten those kids OUT of the pool. NOW.
But I am NOT a grandfather, I am a grandmother, and men's instincts are different.

[MDLNB]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

I do not think I am taking liberty with the information just making the assumption that the Sumter County Sheriff's Office knows what it is doing. It did not charge the man with anything like making sexual advances on a minor. The grandfather charged into accusing the man without real evidence that he did anything wrong and the man got justifiably upset. Striking the grandfather is a criminal charge as is stealing the grandfather's cell phone. There probably would be other charges tacking on like evading arrest if this were not a situation where one hothead seems to have taken on another hothead. This is from the information Redwitch provided about the arguments at the pool heard by a TOTVer. I am a victim advocate as I have repeatedly said here since 2007 taking great risks with my career to improve victims' access to practical information accessible through or in libraries since January 1991 in my 224 613 Proejct. But, there is also common sense and accepting that most of the time the people involved in law enforcement investigations like this one, know exactly what they are doing. Try to empathize with each of the people in this real life drama. It sounds like the grandfather went way overboard protecting his grandchild. I do not have all the facts but assume that the Sumter County Sheriff's Office did a thorough investigation of this.

I will watch and see how this case is resolved. I do think that a good defense lawyer has a lot to work with in this one.

I'm sorry, but I read the story and didn't see anything in there that seemed to indicate that it was the grandfather's fault. Either I missed it, you have information that I didn't know about, or you are seeing it different than what's stated. Even if what you indicate is true, that the grandfather was the hothead and shouted at the poor gent that was just having a conversation with three children, I don't see anywhere in the statutes where that is cause for an assault. If anything, I would say that it is the suspect that should have walked away, even if unjustly accused by the grandfather. But, maybe you have information that the rest of us don't have. Personally, I still figure the grandfather as a hero for protecting his grandchild, whether warranted or not. I would rather err on the side of protection than to ignore possible dangerous situations. If what you say is true and that same grandfather jumped in my face, I would attempt to reason with him in a low voice, assuring him that there was nothing untoward happening, and then if that didn't calm him, I would take my leave. I would not punch him and steal his cell phone. With a background conviction of assault, I think we know who was at fault and since the police didn't arrest the granddad, then it should be obvious it wasn't granddad that was wrong, but indeed wronged.
"Granddads lives matter too."

Just an observation, but I have noticed that those without children seem to take a much different view of how children should go about their daily lives. Children should feel secure and unafraid when they play. Too bad if some folks feel that all the pools should be there to cater to them only. Perhaps they should find an assisted living residence that has a private pool where they won't have to worry about hearing children laugh and play. Just my opinion.

My opinion may be wrong. I read two articles regarding the incident. Neither one of them provided much detail. I allow that my view of the incident is based only on the information I have available and it could be flawed. If this suspect is innocent then the court should reveal that. But, to immediately jump to the conclusion that he did this because the grandfather accosted him, and then blame the grandfather for causing the situation, just seems a bit skewed to me. I don't buy it.

The second part of my diatribe was addressing the family pool discussion and not your conversation regarding the cause of the assault. It probably could have been separate.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by MDLNB

I'm sorry, but I read the story and didn't see anything in there that seemed to indicate that it was the grandfather's fault. Either I missed it, you have information that I didn't know about, or you are seeing it different than what's stated. Even if what you indicate is true, that the grandfather was the hothead and shouted at the poor gent that was just having a conversation with three children, I don't see anywhere in the statutes where that is cause for an assault. If anything, I would say that it is the suspect that should have walked away, even if unjustly accused by the grandfather. But, maybe you have information that the rest of us don't have. Personally, I still figure the grandfather as a hero for protecting his grandchild, whether warranted or not. I would rather err on the side of protection than to ignore possible dangerous situations. If what you say is true and that same grandfather jumped in my face, I would attempt to reason with him in a low voice, assuring him that there was nothing untoward happening, and then if that didn't calm him, I would take my leave. I would not punch him and steal his cell phone. With a background conviction of assault, I think we know who was at fault and since the police didn't arrest the granddad, then it should be obvious it wasn't granddad that was wrong, but indeed wronged.
"Granddads lives matter too."

Just an observation, but I have noticed that those without children seem to take a much different view of how children should go about their daily lives. Children should feel secure and unafraid when they play. Too bad if some folks feel that all the pools should be there to cater to them only. Perhaps they should find an assisted living residence that has a private pool where they won't have to worry about hearing children laugh and play. Just my opinion.

My opinion may be wrong. I read two articles regarding the incident. Neither one of them provided much detail. I allow that my view of the incident is based only on the information I have available and it could be flawed. If this suspect is innocent then the court should reveal that. But, to immediately jump to the conclusion that he did this because the grandfather accosted him, and then blame the grandfather for causing the situation, just seems a bit skewed to me. I don't buy it.

The second part of my diatribe was addressing the family pool discussion and not your conversation regarding the cause of the assault. It probably could have been separate.

I do not see any heroes in the situation. Also, no reason to charge the grandfather with anything as he is the "victim" in the battery. Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

The grandfather contributed to the confrontation though unless the cops did not have enough evidence to charge this man for trying to pick up the girls in the pool. There should have been evidence though if the police interviewed people at the pool like these three kids. I am assuming that the girls were asked about what the man was talking with them about before the grandfather got so livid.

I do not see someone who gets into a rage without getting the facts as a hero.

[MDLNB]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

I do not see any heroes in the situation. Also, no reason to charge the grandfather with anything as he is the "victim" in the battery. Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

The grandfather contributed to the confrontation though unless the cops did not have enough evidence to charge this man for trying to pick up the girls in the pool. There should have been evidence though if the police interviewed people at the pool like these three kids. I am assuming that the girls were asked about what the man was talking with them about before the grandfather got so livid.

I do not see someone who gets into a rage without getting the facts as a hero.

Where are you getting this information? You must have a source of information that I didn't see.

"The grandfather contributed to the confrontation" ????
"before the grandfather got so livid" ????

Is this something that was quoted from a witness, or are you embellishing what you believe happened in your mind? Just asking because maybe I am wrong, if what you say is true.

"I do not see someone that gets into a RAGE without getting the facts as a hero." ???? What facts do you have that the grandfather did not have?

I thought you were a lawyer, but after reading your interpretation, it sounds like you have written a totally different incident. Maybe you have more details of the incident that you could share? Because I totally don't see it the way you are seeing it, just based on that article. No offense meant. I mean this as a question, not as an insult or trying to be derisive. I am really curious. If you are embellishing the story, then you are tainting this as would a defense lawyer would in court.

Based on what information I have right now, I applaud the grandfather for attempting to protect those children from what he conceived to be a possible threat, real or implied. I certainly would hope that someone such as that gentleman would be around if my grandchildren were possibly/possibly accosted at the pool. Yep, until I get more facts, he is a hero and the other guy is a suspected criminal.

I don't look for trouble. I would rather walk away from a confrontation. But, when it comes to protection of others, I will stand my ground, whether I know the victim or not. We need more folks that will stand up for those less able to defend themselves. If that is old fashioned, I don't apologize. If my wife ever needs assistance and I find out that someone didn't want to get involved, shame on them.

It is not the grandfather that should have walked away, but the suspect. If the grandfather was wrong, the suspect should have been the one to walk away, not the grandfather. If the suspect would have walked away then there would probably not have been a fight and he wouldn't have found it necessary to steal the cell phone. Sorry, but regardless of whether or not the grandfather was wrong, the other guy could have avoided the confrontation and the criminal charges. If the grandfather would have pursued the guy, then it would have been the grandfather being charged. I was not there and I have not seen any details that suggested that the grandfather did anything wrong. I am not saying that this information does not exist. I just haven't seen anything to suggest the embellishments of facts in your comment.

Just one more point I would like to share. When I was in Turkey, a friend of mine parked his car legally on the side of the street. During the day, another car ran into his car, damaging it. Who's fault was it? The police found both cars to be at fault because one ran into the other and the other was at fault because it was parked (legally) in that spot. If the car was not there, then it would not have been damaged. That is how they see vehicle accidents. I understand how you might feel that the incident would not have occurred if the grandfather was not there, so therefore the fault should be shared.