[QUOTE=Allen;255645]I'm sorry, but I just can not let this stand...

There are so many things wrong with this comment that I hardly know where to begin. Therefore I will simply address a few of the most troubling remarks with which I take exception. First of all, where in the Constitution is anyone given the power to take money from others to provide benefits for those who do not pay their own way? I know we have already started down this road, but it’s the wrong road and under this administration it’s getting wider. If individual citizens voluntarily choose to provide for others in need with their own money (which many do) they should certainly be respected. If however, someone takes (or demands) money from others to do so, that is no less than thievery… no matter how “noble” the intentions.

I and my family have been without health care benefits, yet we found a way to pay for our insurance by working harder and cutting back on other expenditures… even though we would not have “died for lack of health care“. If we were in need of treatment, we would have received it… as we all well know.

But now, thanks to some who are so generous (with other people’s money), I guess I will no longer worry about paying. Why should I? Someone else will pay for my insurance whenever I need it! In the meantime, I’ll just pay the fine… it will be a lot cheaper than what my premium will be after 30+ million other “non payers” are added to the system. Anyone who says they understand freedom, yet expects others to be forced to pay for those who do not, needs to rethink that idea.

Are pre-existing conditions a problem? Absolutely. Is the health insurance industry in need of reform? No question about it. But, to “fundamentally transform” this nation into a Marxist state is not the answer. There are, and were, many other ways to address these issues that were suggested… and ignored!

This bill is not about healthcare. It is about the implementation of a political ideology. One that will work about as well as “The War on Poverty” which did nothing more than sap initiative and self respect while increasing the numbers of people dependent on the state. This is just one more step in the creation of the “American Socialist Republic”.





Allen -Excellent post....you took the words right out of my mouth...Thanks

[Boomer]

Originally Posted by Xavier

In answer to the original question - It will go down in history as the day that a GREAT Country began it's journey to beyond greatness - The baseline for taking care of all of our citizens. If it costs more, so be it! Greed and selfishness be damned.

Lou Card: I love my neighbors, every one of them, but I'm sure we could find a spot for you in our neighborhood! What a fantastic addition to The Villages you'll make.

Xavier

Please don't be scared, Xavier. Those are fireworks! I have insurance, but I also can see past the "I" in the word. Maybe I should live in your village, too.

I am quite conscious of the fiscal side of things. And re. that part, I think that "unrestrained greed is not only bad morals, it's bad economics." (see the banking industry for an illustration thereof) And we cannot as a nation continue to allow insurance companies to hamstring so many hardworking Americans.

Boomer

[Don H]

Originally Posted by 2young

The government already owns healthcare for more than half of the people,
including Medicare, military, and the Indian Health Service. Funny how most of the people who already HAVE SOCIALIZED health care are the ones
complaining the loudest about others and their needs! I got mine, screw the rest of you! If you hate SOCIALISM so much, please pay for your own insurance. (and while your at it, please send the government your SS checks!

Well said!!

[Villages Kahuna]

Originally Posted by billethkid

...lowest priced and quality health care you will ever have....

Easily said, Billie. But the statistics don't back you up. The cost of healthcare in the U.S. is double that of the country in second place in the cost per capita list of healthcare costs. And that doesn't address the fact that all the developed countries on the list with substantially lower costs than our own provide universal healthcare to all their citizens. We won't actually do that until 2014.

The Organisation for Economic and Co-operation and Development [OECD] released the “OECD Health Data 2009” report which compares the health care statistics across OECD countries.

Some of the key points from this study comparing the U.S. health care system with other countries are listed below:

• The total spending for health care accounted for 16% of the U.S.’s GDP, the highest share among the OECD and almost double the OECD average
• The public share of health care expenditure in the USA (45%) is less than any other OECD country
• Despite spending the most, the U.S. provides health care coverage for only the elderly, disabled and some of the poor people. More than 10% of the U.S. population has no access to healthcare at all. In comparison, the same amount is enough to provide universal health care insurance by the government for all citizens in other OECD countries
• 35% of total health care expenditures is provided by private health insurance which is the highest In OCED
• Despite the high medical expenditure,there are fewer doctors per capita in the U.S. than most other OECD countries
• Life expectancy in the U.S. is lower when compared with Japan, Switzerland, Canada and Australia
• Infant morality rates in the U.S. is higher than most OECD countries. In 2006, it was 6.7 per live births relative to OECD average of 4.7

------------------
Like I said, Billie, the statistics simply don't back you up. What the statistic do tell us is, with our current healthcare system Americans aren't coming close to getting their money's worth.

[Donna2]

Those statistics have been combed over so many times and proven inaccurate because every country obtains their figures using different formulas. But I have a feeling you knew that.

[Pebbles]

Originally Posted by Boomer

Please don't be scared, Xavier. Those are fireworks! I have insurance, but I also can see past the "I" in the word. Maybe I should live in your village, too.

I am quite conscious of the fiscal side of things. And re. that part, I think that "unrestrained greed is not only bad morals, it's bad economics." (see the banking industry for an illustration thereof) And we cannot as a nation continue to allow insurance companies to hamstring so many hardworking Americans.

Boomer

I liked your fireworks!!!

To the greedy insurance companies . . . .

[DDoug]

We are in a new country USSA United Soviet Socialists of America. Watch and see what comes next.

[graciegirl]

Deleted.

[Avista]

We follow the work ethic. I had breast cancer. Fortunately, just AFTER treatment we lost our health insurance and were too young for Medicare. When I think of what could have happened if our insurance was taken from us before or during treatment, I shudder. We were able to get another policy, but it was extremely expensive with a very high deductible and excluded cancer and cancer treatment.

Medicare was a lifesaver.

[BobKat1]

Originally Posted by DDoug

We are in a new country USSA United Soviet Socialists of America. Watch and see what comes next.

Deleted...

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Lou Card

I think you may be correct; however, even if that is the case, I agree to pay more and get less if it helps relieve the suffering of those that cannot get access to health care at all.

Lou

Where did you get the idea that there are people in the USA who "cannot get access to health care at all".

The law for most of my lifetime has been quite clear: It is illegal to refuse healthcare to anyone in the USA by most providers.

You are confused. Did you mean people without health insurance?

[rshoffer]

Originally Posted by HMLRHT1

What does everyone think about it?

I think the Constitutional challenges will be interesting... especially since they will end up in the lap of The Supreme Court. Recall the fiasco at the State of the Union address.

[eweissenbach]

This thread reinforces my decision to stay the hell away from the politics forum. I will end up despising people I may otherwise find likeable. It seems that political discussion generally brings out the worst confrontational sides of many people.

[BobKat1]

Originally Posted by eweissenbach

This thread reinforces my decision to stay the hell away from the politics forum. I will end up despising people I may otherwise find likeable. It seems that political discussion generally brings out the worst confrontational sides of many people.

Amen to that!!!

[Boomer]

Hey! I’ve got an idea! How about everybody who wants to give an opinion in this thread also tells the readers where their own health insurance comes from. That could be interesting.

I’ll start.

Mr. Boomer and I each have access to recognized group plans through our former employers. A part of it is paid by those employers, but our share grows and grows with each annual renewal. We are not to Medicare yet. We do not like the constant increases as we pay more for less coverage. We pay those costs. But there are those who have worked just as hard as we have, through all these boomer-years, only to now find themselves being hit harder and harder to the point of having their retirement dreams held hostage by what they have to pay for coverage – if they can find it at all.

Do I hear some of you scratching your heads and asking, “Hey! Boomer! What’s your problem? Sounds like you got it covered. Sounds like you have figured out how to pay through the nose. Why are you glad to see the healthcare bill pass? And didn’t you used to be a Republican? Like maybe almost all your voting life? And aren’t you an investor in the stock market?”

Well, I hear you, and I could write about all of those questions. And I actually have a couple of things cooking over in Word. But I am not sure I want to get into it – a time issue makes it an ROI issue.

As one who has chosen not to enter the political forum, I was so glad to see this thread appear here in the main forum. I think it has been given special dispensation because the topic has stepped beyond politics and into history. I hope it can remain here for our opinions to be shared. Can we walk that tightrope? I do not know. But I would not bet on it.

And, of course, I know that it is not all perfect. But the refusal by so many to even acknowledge the problem, or to address it, has taken us closer and closer to turning the USA into a plutocracy sliding into place assisted by those who want a theocracy. I believe in Democracy.

…………

Wow! I sure did digress on that one. Oh my! -- uh, please refer back to the first part of this post if you want to see what I intended to talk about.

Boomer