[VICAR OF DIBLEY]

I am an octogenarians in need of suggestions how best to handle this situation involvingone of my brokerage firms, Michael Whitaker and Associates, LLC.

I have been a client of Michael Whitaker and Associates for well over a decade, and for the first time, I needed to sell stock in what had to be a very timely matter—for the closing of a real estate purchase.

I contacted Michael Whitaker’s office to explain the situation, giving the specific date by which I absolutely had to have the funds available—November 1, 2021—as well as the amount of funds I needed available. No problem, I was told; I was given instructions how to accomplish this.

I followed through on the instructions to the letter, as I could not take a chance on any errors occurring. In fact, I adjusted the date to make it even earlier—October 29, 2021—just in case there was a delay. Again I was assured that the funds would definitely be available even before I actually needed them. To be on the safe side, I verified the dates and instructions with Michael Whitaker’s staff.

To make a long story short: On Friday, October 28, the funds were not available in my checking account from which they were to be wired to the closing company. Figuring on a routine delay, since Michael Whitaker had all the information AND I had gone over it with his staff, on Monday morning, November 1, 2021—the day of the closing—I was not able to wire that portion of funds, as they never appeared in my account!

Urgently I sought to contact Marcia at Michael Whitaker’s office, whom I had been told would be my primary contact person, starting the calling at 9:00 AM, and until 9:45 I kept getting a recording saying that the office would reopen at 9:00 AM. Finally, someone answered, and I said I needed to speak with Marcia immediately.

I was told she was with a client. I explained that this was an emergency situation, to please interrupt her. She finally picked up the phone and told me she would call me back ‘later.’ She finally did call me back and told me she had no idea why the funds weren’t there and she could do nothing about it.

This was a far cry from being told not to worry, that everything would be done as needed, that what I was doing was fairly routine. Unfortunately, Marcia took no responsibility for the major problem about which no one in Michael Whitaker’s office could—or would—do anything about.

Essentially Michael Whitaker’s staff did absolutely nothing and offered no possible solutions. I was left high and dry, facing a closing and not being able to have my bank wire the funds as was required by the company handling the closing. What was I to do? Whatever I did, it was with zero support from Michael Whitaker and Associates, LLC!

The thought crossed my mind: Am I being taken advantage of because of my age, because someone was making the assumption that I would not realize what was going
on? I was unbelievably upset, as I had no idea what to do, and hard as it is to believe, no one at Michael Whitaker’s firm even offered a suggestion! These are the people whom I had trusted with my assets and cash over the years.

I spoke directly with Michael Whitaker as well as several of his staff. He essentially shrugged off the problem—not what I would have expected from a company which I hadtrusted and relied on. Now I’m asking myself if I have any recourse to being treated like this by Michael Whitaker and his staff.The funds are there today—Tuesday, November 2, 2021. But the closing was yesterday. In terms of recourse, I would very much appreciate your suggestions. Thank you.

[retiredguy123]

Sorry you had this bad experience. I hope you didn't lose the real estate sale. But, in terms of recourse against the stock broker, I don't think you have any recourse, unless you have a written contract to deliver the funds by a specific date, and it says "time is of the essence". Otherwise, I think you are out of luck.

[AJ32162]

What day did you instruct Whitaker to sell the stock? If you instructed them to sell the stock on October 29, 2021, the funds would be credited to your account on that date but not available for withdrawal or transfer until two business days later. I takes two business days for the transaction to 'settle' at which time the funds become available for withdrawal...which would have been November 2, 2021.

[Carla B]

If you read the original post she told the broker the funds should be in her bank account by October 29, and they said "no problem," so obviously they were told to sell before October 29. So what was the date they were given the "sell" order? If they couldn't fulfill that order they should have said so. They probably forgot. If I were the OP and this happened, that brokerage would be immediately terminated.

[VICAR OF DIBLEY]

I just received this information -
Trade Date: 10/20/2021
Settlement Date: 10/22/2021

[rustyp]

I have had more bad experiences with brokers then good. That said in my opinion the OP shares most of the blame for cutting the transition date too close to the closing. Myself would have made sure the money was to be in the bank at least ten business days ahead allowing for time to unscrew a major problem if encountered. I see no reason to play the senior card here. Try closing an account someday and watch how long that takes.

[VICAR OF DIBLEY]

Originally Posted by rustyp

I have had more bad experiences with brokers then good. That said in my opinion the OP shares most of the blame for cutting the transition date too close to the closing. Myself would have made sure the money was to be in the bank at least ten business days ahead allowing for time to unscrew a major problem if encountered. I see no reason to play the senior card here. Try closing an account someday and watch how long that takes.

The date I was given to complete this transaction, came from Michael Whitaker’s office. I had No reason to believe I could not trust them.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by VICAR OF DIBLEY

I just received this information -
Trade Date: 10/20/2021
Settlement Date: 10/22/2021

Based on the settlement date, they may have violated SEC rules by not providing the funds to you in a timely manner. You could report them to the SEC. But, if you lost money in a real estate transaction, I don't think you will be able to recover anything from the stock broker.

[VICAR OF DIBLEY]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

Based on the settlement date, they may have violated SEC rules by not providing the funds to you in a timely manner. You could report them to the SEC. But, if you lost money in a real estate transaction, I don't think you will be able to recover anything from the stock broker.

I will look into this. SEC.

[DAVES]

Originally Posted by VICAR OF DIBLEY

The date I was given to complete this transaction, came from Michael Whitaker’s office. I had No reason to believe I could not trust them.

I'm having trouble following all the dates. The first question is do you have any proof. The second question is were you damaged. As a stock broker they are or should be insured,The sale of the stock was it at market price or at a minimum price? Wired funds of a significant amount, more that you have in your bank account, I think the bank will not allow you to use the funds immediately-protection from all the scams going on.

Hopefully, besides the stress, you were not damaged.

[vintageogauge]

Last year I had Edward Jones sell of a bunch of stuff and they did it a day late resulting in a loss of $6,000.00 due to a drop in the market value that day. The agent that I dealt with for years absorbed the $6,000.00 and brought my account up to where it should have been if sold the day before as instructed. It's nice when someone you trust with money is honest enough to admit they made a mistake.

[Babubhat]

The SEC is beyond useless. More interested in stupid 10k footnotes. Speaking from experience. Move your account immediately

[Boomer]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

Based on the settlement date, they may have violated SEC rules by not providing the funds to you in a timely manner. You could report them to the SEC. But, if you lost money in a real estate transaction, I don't think you will be able to recover anything from the stock broker.

retiredguy123,

I am asking you this purely academic question because it seems like you know stuff. . .

In a circumstance such as this one, should? would? could? the title company have stepped up to arrange for a dry closing?

OP,

I don’t know anything about whether you have any legal recourse or not. But I think if I were you, I would find another broker. The new broker should handle all the transfers for you so you never again have to talk to the one who dropped the ball. But make sure the new broker explains each type of transfer being used, and why, before you sign off. Different types of accounts might require different types of transfers.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by Boomer

retiredguy123,

I am asking you this purely academic question because it seems like you know stuff. . .

In a circumstance such as this one, should? would? could? the title company have stepped up to arrange for a dry closing?

OP,

I don’t know anything about whether you have any legal recourse or not. But I think if I were you, I would find another broker. The new broker should handle all the transfers for you so you never again have to talk to the one who dropped the ball. But make sure the new broker explains each type of transfer being used, and why, before you sign off. Different types of accounts might require different types of transfers.

Yes, there could have been a dry closing, where the funds are not disbursed immediately. Proof that the stocks were sold should have been enough to justify it. Another option would have been for the stockbroker to provide a short term loan to the OP to handle the closing. Or, the closing could have been delayed for a day. These things are usually not cast in stone. And, we don't know if the OP actually lost anything as a result of the funds not being available.

[VICAR OF DIBLEY]

Originally Posted by rustyp

I have had more bad experiences with brokers then good. That said in my opinion the OP shares most of the blame for cutting the transition date too close to the closing. Myself would have made sure the money was to be in the bank at least ten business days ahead allowing for time to unscrew a major problem if encountered. I see no reason to play the senior card here. Try closing an account someday and watch how long that takes.

My first call to Michael Whitaker’s office was nearly one month before I needed the funds. I was told on what date to come to their office, so that I would get the monies for the closing in time.
I thought they were competent, little did I know.