[44Ruger]

[quote=Tennisnut;903516][quote=graciegirl;903503]

Originally Posted by Bonanza

I agree also. The Pilgrims did not come here so someone's religious beliefs could be imposed on them. In this case, someones religious beliefs outweighed an existing law. Although, the detrimental effect of this ruling amounts to a few dollars a year to the affected parties. Besides the the few religious groups you mentioned, hundreds of others could use this to advance that slippery slope

So true and clear. To allow religion to be the determining factor in our laws (in my opinion) would destroy our democracy. Religions are more like dictatorships.

[njbchbum]

[quote=44Ruger;903519][quote=Tennisnut;903516]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

So true and clear. To allow religion to be the determining factor in our laws (in my opinion) would destroy our democracy. Religions are more like dictatorships.

44Ruger - Please explain just how the H.L. decision to allow H.L. to not pay for 4 prescriptions that potentially cause abortion but to still pay for 16 contraceptive scripts 'forces' religion on women employees rather than the decision protecting the rights of H.L. which they have under the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution and the Religious Freedom Restoration Act.

Thanks

[njbchbum]

[quote=Tennisnut;903516][quote=graciegirl;903503]

Originally Posted by Bonanza

I agree also. The Pilgrims did not come here so someone's religious beliefs could be imposed on them. In this case, someones religious beliefs outweighed an existing law. Although, the detrimental effect of this ruling amounts to a few dollars a year to the affected parties. Besides the the few religious groups you mentioned, hundreds of others could use this to advance that slippery slope

Tennisnut - Does a law that requires one to abide by a standard that is totally against their religion not have the impact of imposing religious belief/religion on that party?

[Tennisnut]

[quote=njbchbum;903525][quote=Tennisnut;903516]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Tennisnut - Does a law that requires one to abide by a standard that is totally against their religion not have the impact of imposing religious belief/religion on that party?

No, unless you believe in the "Golden Rule". I have the bucks, so you live to my Religious standard, not the law. I guess that determines who does the imposition.

[janmcn]

No subject is going to unite women more than this one. Why would anyone choose to have this discussion at this point in time? It would be nice to hear from more women of child-bearing age.

[44Ruger]

[quote=njbchbum;903523][quote=44Ruger;903519]

Originally Posted by Tennisnut

44Ruger - Please explain just how the H.L. decision to allow H.L. to not pay for 4 prescriptions that potentially cause abortion but to still pay for 16 contraceptive scripts 'forces' religion on women employees rather than the decision protecting the rights of H.L. which they have under the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution and the Religious Freedom Restoration Act.

Thanks

It does not force religion on women. It is a way of allowing H.L. To make decisions that will erode laws that have been put in place by a democratic government for the protection of all Americans. HL will become a dictator employer and not a law abiding American company. The rights and needs of the many far out way the desires of one confused individual.

[njbchbum]

Originally Posted by tennisnut

no, unless you believe in the "golden rule". I have the bucks, so you live to my religious standard, not the law. I guess that determines who does the imposition.

yikes!

[Bavarian]

Originally Posted by nitakk

Bonanza, bravo! I have always been offended that a man has any say in what I do with my body, including abortion. It is my decision, not a corporation's or even the Supreme Court. My generation fought too hard for the rights my daughter and granddaughter enjoy to let us slide back. This has all come about because of the members of the Supreme Court and women would be wise to consider this in presidential elections. In my opinion, men should have absolutely no say in my reproductive rights. It is ironic that conservatives are forever talking about individual rights but hide behind religion like a shield.

The Unborn Baby is not Your Body! It is a separate Living Being.

The Younger generation is increasingly pro-life. I see them at the Annual March For Life in DC that I attended until I moved to FL. They scold us for not stopping abortion earlier.

Now that said, Hobby Lobby decision is based on the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, passed unanimously by the House and by 99 votes in the Senate and signed into law by Pres William J. Clinton. That is the act the Supremes used to base their decision.

It is not anti-women as no one is prevented from buying these abortifacient drugs on their own.

[Bavarian]

All of you upset over Hobby Lobby not paying for all baby killing drugs: What do you think of Anne Arundel (co., MD) Medical Center saying that they will not hire anyone who smokes, period. Smokers need not apply. Do you think that is discrimination. They were already banned from smoking on the Hospital Campus.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by Bavarian

All of you upset over Hobby Lobby not paying for all baby killing drugs: What do you think of Anne Arundel (co., MD) Medical Center saying that they will not hire anyone who smokes, period. Smokers need not apply. Do you think that is discrimination. They were already banned from smoking on the Hospital Campus.

No Butts About It: Local Hospital To Stop Hiring Smokers « CBS Baltimore

I had not heard about that. I suppose they will have to ask whether you smoke in applications or interviews then?

[Rags123]

[quote=44Ruger;903536][quote=njbchbum;903523]

Originally Posted by 44Ruger

It does not force religion on women. It is a way of allowing H.L. To make decisions that will erode laws that have been put in place by a democratic government for the protection of all Americans. HL will become a dictator employer and not a law abiding American company. The rights and needs of the many far out way the desires of one confused individual.

The only eroding of laws are those that the USA refuses to enforce, especially those at the border.

[graciegirl]

In my whole life....living here is the first time I have ever heard anyone so antireligion. I know and love atheists and have in my life people of all faiths, some who practice and some who don't. I SEE all of the GOOD different churches do in their outreach programs, and I know that people who go to church aren't always "good". I believe in the separation of Church and State, but I personally think that religion is a solace and a good guiding force for most people. I struggle with faith myself and I know that not all men and women of the cloth are good examples, but most of them that I have known are. This coldness, and anti church sentiment troubles me and hurts me.

I didn't go to church today. I am no saint. I don't believe or accept or integrate all of the things that the institutional church has taught me but I like people who try to do better and be kinder and hang in there because of their religion. I would NEVER try to talk anyone into my faith. But I would NOT ever tear down someone's faith, no more than I would find it wrong they were born white and heterosexual or brown and homosexual. You ARE WHO you are and most of us struggle to be good, by the standards we believe in. It is better to have something rather than nothing.

And sometimes the nothingness leaps off the page on this forum.

[surething]

[quote=44Ruger;903536][quote=njbchbum;903523]

Originally Posted by 44Ruger

It does not force religion on women. It is a way of allowing H.L. To make decisions that will erode laws that have been put in place by a democratic government for the protection of all Americans. HL will become a dictator employer and not a law abiding American company. The rights and needs of the many far out way the desires of one confused individual.

HL a dictator? Hobby Lobby founder has strong beliefs about abortion and doesn't want to pay for medications that aid in aborting a fetus, not in preventing conception. Founder David Green raised the minimum wage to $14/hr. in 2013 Green also joined the Gates-Buffett Giving Pledge in 2010, promising to donate half his wealth to good causes by the time he dies.

This question boiled down to religious liberty and RFRA considerations.
The Religious Freedom Restoration Act, was passed in 1993 by an overwhelmingly DEMOCRAT House and Senate, and signed into law by Clinton.
The SCOTUS merely upheld "established law" which did not allow any follow-on law, in this case 0bamaCare, to nullify that existing law.
In this ruling, women are not denied the contraception. Hobby Lobby does not have to pay for it on religious views. Women can go get it anywhere they want, like buy it themselves, perhaps at Target for $9/month. There were really only four drugs or abortifacients Hobby Lobby objected to. You could argue this case was about abortion, because Hobby Lobby objected to providing coverage for abortifacients - medications that would abort a fetus-something that's already conceived, as opposed to a preventative.
No female employee of Hobby Lobby is going to lose coverage of any medication, even after this ruling. Hobby Lobby’s insurance company will fill the gap in coverage left by the religious liberty exemption granted to the company, just like they do for churches and religious-affiliated non-profits

[44Ruger]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

In my whole life....living here is the first time I have ever heard anyone so antireligion. I know and love atheists and have in my life people of all faiths, some who practice and some who don't. I SEE all of the GOOD different churches do in their outreach programs, and I know that people who go to church aren't always "good". I believe in the separation of Church and State, but I personally think that religion is a solace and a good guiding force for most people. I struggle with faith myself and I know that not all men and women of the cloth are good examples, but most of them that I have known are. This coldness, and anti church sentiment troubles me and hurts me.

I didn't go to church today. I am no saint. I don't believe or accept or integrate all of the things that the institutional church has taught me but I like people who try to do better and be kinder and hang in there because of their religion. I would NEVER try to talk anyone into my faith. But I would NOT ever tear down someone's faith, no more than I would find it wrong they were born white and heterosexual. You ARE WHO you are and most of us struggle to be good, by the standards we believe in. It is better to have something rather than nothing.

And sometimes the nothingness leaps off the page on this forum.

I agree with this post. Without the fear of god we would have even more criminals among us. My faith not only guides me in my day to day activities, it gives me peace during times of sorrow. This HL action will drive a wedge between the faithful and their trust in our laws. When religious values of one are forced on others, it drives them out of faith. Shame on HL for stirring up such a stink.

[Tennisnut]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

In my whole life....living here is the first time I have ever heard anyone so antireligion. I know and love atheists and have in my life people of all faiths, some who practice and some who don't. I SEE all of the GOOD different churches do in their outreach programs, and I know that people who go to church aren't always "good". I believe in the separation of Church and State, but I personally think that religion is a solace and a good guiding force for most people. I struggle with faith myself and I know that not all men and women of the cloth are good examples, but most of them that I have known are. This coldness, and anti church sentiment troubles me and hurts me.

I didn't go to church today. I am no saint. I don't believe or accept or integrate all of the things that the institutional church has taught me but I like people who try to do better and be kinder and hang in there because of their religion. I would NEVER try to talk anyone into my faith. But I would NOT ever tear down someone's faith, no more than I would find it wrong they were born white and heterosexual or brown and homosexual. You ARE WHO you are and most of us struggle to be good, by the standards we believe in. It is better to have something rather than nothing.

And sometimes the nothingness leaps off the page on this forum.

I am afraid not everyone has the same attitude as you do toward tolerance of religious values. As someone said, we need to continue to be a kinder and gentler nation. Almost all religions profess the concepts of being kind and helping our fellow man and that concept is not foreign to atheists as well. However, some of the devotees believe it is their duty to convert others to their religion. This can be as destructive as the Sunis of ISIS in the Middle East or as bothersome as someone distributing the Watchtower. Somewhere in between is HL decision.