[redwitch]

After the threads about the sports pool indicent, the car hood ornament stolen and general ones about the gates, I'm wondering just how much security TVers really expect from the developer.

Personally, I expect none. Community Watch is really there to ensure that deed restrictions are followed, even though they do act as a small deterrent since they are highly visible and work 24/7. Do I really want those little old men (sorry, guys) to stop some burglar and get injured in the process? Should we even expect them to do this? I do think it would be nice if they stopped when they saw someone in distress, especially after dark, and helped them or at least stayed with them until help arrived.

Rec assistants are supposed to check IDs to prevent non-authorized visitors from using facilities. They are not there to prevent someone from entering the wrong bathroom or taking the purse left on the table. They will call the sheriff when needed.

I'm really not sure what the purpose of the gate people is other than to smile, wave and give directions. I do know the gates themselves are used to slow traffic and, from what I understand, that is their main function. They can come in handy for evidence since they do take photos of vehicles entering and leaving a village. In fact, I know of one instance where a burglar was caught because his truck was filmed entering empty and leaving full.

We do have an active police force in TV -- at least in Lake and Sumter Counties (have never seen a Marion County officer of any type in my travels). Our fire department and EMT responders are downright awesome. It is the sheriff's department duty to protect villagers and, as a whole, they do an excellent job. But, like everyone else, they can't do it all and certainly can't do it without our full cooperation.

So, my question is why does anyone expect the developer to protect us? I've never read, heard nor seen anything where the developer has promised to make TV a safe place to live. Our crime rate is very low -- much lower than the national average and most certainly lower than most cities/towns with a population of 80,000 and growing. There are several factors for this -- more law-abiding citizens live here than in most communities (the advantage of being older); many retired police officers; the willingness of neighbors to watch out for neighbors. The Villages employees are not trained to stop a criminal and they most certainly are not trained to arrest one. I'm not even sure if they get basic first aid training. Our best defense is to be aware, to watch out for each other and to be alert in all surroundings.

As most of you know, I'm not a big fan of the Morse family. I appreciate what Harold Schwartz created and what Gary Morse expanded. I think the Morses' greed factor is astronomical and beyond my understanding. I truly admire the business acumen that has gone into the creation of TV and I truly love living here. I think Morse, et al. have kept their word to build a retirement community beyond the norm -- reasonably priced housing, amenities galore, activities beyond my comprehension, clean streets and town squares, beautiful landscaping. Being safe was not something I ever expected.

[Boudicca]

Great response, and correctly "sums it up"

[Tom Hannon]

Great post, Redwitch. As always, you have given your comments and suggestions great thought. I appreciate it. Hope other do as well. Thanks,

[Bogie Shooter]

Good post. Sums up my feelings on this subject.

[skip0358]

Very well put. I don't think we need a TV police force nor do we want one. Your right we need to watch out for each other. If you saw something in your old home town you called either police, fire,ambulance. This area is no different. Do I think the pool areas should be a little tighter yes I do. How many times do contractors or whomever just open the gates and come on in either for water, bathrooms, etc. Your swipe card would be a nice touch. But then it comes down to the cost of installing them. Yea maybe CW could drive thru the back parking lots at night with their yellow lights on. Might help some what. As for more police? Do we really want PD roaming the squares or watching the outside bars. I think not, as most of us get in our golf carts to drive home after a long day or evening out enjoying ourselves. And lets face we sure don't want to get stopped. All and all I think the previous poster said it just fine. Keep your eyes open and watch out for each other. This is just my opinion. I'm sure someone will shoot me down, but that's how I feel.

[graciegirl]

Excellent post Redwitch. I agree with everything but your opinion of the Morse's greed factor. I don't care if he is making money hand over fist. Just because he is successful doesn't mean he is greedy.

But....the rest of your points are well made and feeling safe is what I expected and what I am getting. If it gets to the point that we need to have more security than we now have.........than things need to change.

Carol came on and told us what happened. She was not harmed, thank heavens. Have we heard of a lot of things happening like this? No. Will all of us be more mindful in that same situation? I hope so. Showering with a friend watching out might be just the right thing to do. If something changes and another incident is reported, than changes need to be made. But the sky isn't falling quite yet.

That is just my opinion and I might be wrong...as Russ says. And if I am, someone is gonna bust my chops.

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by skip0358

Very well put. I don't think we need a TV police force nor do we want one. Your right we need to watch out for each other. If you saw something in your old home town you called either police, fire,ambulance. This area is no different. Do I think the pool areas should be a little tighter yes I do. How many times do contractors or whomever just open the gates and come on in either for water, bathrooms, etc. Your swipe card would be a nice touch. But then it comes down to the cost of installing them. Yea maybe CW could drive thru the back parking lots at night with their yellow lights on. Might help some what. As for more police? Do we really want PD roaming the squares or watching the outside bars. I think not, as most of us get in our golf carts to drive home after a long day or evening out enjoying ourselves. And lets face we sure don't want to get stopped. All and all I think the previous poster said it just fine. Keep your eyes open and watch out for each other. This is just my opinion. I'm sure someone will shoot me down, but that's how I feel.

Driving while impaired is not a good idea; in a car, a cart or a bicycle. Please do not take your half out of the middle of the cart path when I approach.

[Snowbirdtobe]

I think that we are entitled to the following minimum level of protection

The cameras at the gates reading license plates.
See AAC minuets July 14th 2010

The age and residency requirements enforced for pools and rec centers

All alcohol laws enforced even if driving a golf cart
This is a requirement for selling alcohol everywhere even in TV and I
don't want to be driving through a tunnel with a drunk traveling toward me.

Published rules for "guest passes" enforced

[Army Guy]

Red Witch, you are right on the money!

Army Guy

[784caroline]

Red Witch

Well Said!!!

[vj1213]

First, let me start by saying I am a relative newbie here (less than 3 months). I chose to live here and yes I feel safe in the area. I am not a political person, don't like confrontations, and like you say my opinion right or wrong is just that .. my opinion.
I guess the reason this security issue at the sports pool struck such a chord with me is because I have been a victim of abuse (no not here) and let me tell you from experience it's not a pleasant experience to be beaten black and blue by a man. So yes, if I hear of an incident where a lady was attacked, or her well being was put in jeopardy I will not try to diminish the situation by saying oh it was probably an accident. Believe me I don't live my life in fear, scared to go out or do anything alone here. I use the sports pools and local pools and will continue to do so. I walk my dog late at night. Yes, I do feel safe in my surroundings.
Where I have to disagree is the part about how much protection I expect. I have lived all over this country, and I have belonged to several gyms and there was always security, especially around dressing areas and locker rooms. Whether it be security cameras, key readers or whatever. It is my understanding that the developers own and operate the rec. centers and pools, so yes they are the ones responsible for the security of the people who use the centers. No I am not saying we need armed guards at every post, I am just saying if there is an issue with safety at one of the centers it should be addressed.
Frankly, I don't care about the Morse's greed or success. I love TV, this is where I chose to build and live. But one of my top priorities was living in a place I felt safe.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by vj1213

First, let me start by saying I am a relative newbie here (less than 3 months). I chose to live here and yes I feel safe in the area. I am not a political person, don't like confrontations, and like you say my opinion right or wrong is just that .. my opinion.
I guess the reason this security issue at the sports pool struck such a chord with me is because I have been a victim of abuse (no not here) and let me tell you from experience it's not a pleasant experience to be beaten black and blue by a man. So yes, if I hear of an incident where a lady was attacked, or her well being was put in jeopardy I will not try to diminish the situation by saying oh it was probably an accident. Believe me I don't live my life in fear, scared to go out or do anything alone here. I use the sports pools and local pools and will continue to do so. I walk my dog late at night. Yes, I do feel safe in my surroundings.
Where I have to disagree is the part about how much protection I expect. I have lived all over this country, and I have belonged to several gyms and there was always security, especially around dressing areas and locker rooms. Whether it be security cameras, key readers or whatever. It is my understanding that the developers own and operate the rec. centers and pools, so yes they are the ones responsible for the security of the people who use the centers. No I am not saying we need armed guards at every post, I am just saying if there is an issue with safety at one of the centers it should be addressed.
Frankly, I don't care about the Morse's greed or success. I love TV, this is where I chose to build and live. But one of my top priorities was living in a place I felt safe.

Thank you so much for writing this. This is a life changing post and I greatly appreciate your sharing this with us.

I would like to apologize to you personally because I am a person who does tend to diminish reports of danger in The Villages. It feels like home in Ohio to me, and unless you have lived in an area of low crime all of your life, THAT in itself is hard to understand from people who live in huge cities, I am sure. I also know that even in areas of low crime, crime does happen as it happened to you. And when it does happen to someone you know, it gets personal really fast. I am listening, and I was wrong.

I have read your post from my heart and I am sorry that you were hurt. I see that having the physical set up changed would make everyone more secure.

I have always felt that the owners read this forum, so I feel that they will do what they can to address it, they seem to try to address everything for our comfort here.

Thank you once again V. Feel this hug.

[redwitch]

VJ, like you, I have been the victim of a personal attack by a male. To say it is life changing is putting it mildly. I do my best to not be afraid and to live my life. Strangely, I feel safe in public, but not in my own home. I do not invite anyone in -- I can't. I agree that TV is one of the safest communities I have ever lived in, but it is still a large community with a large diversity of people -- some kinder, gentler than others, but most being the kind of people we want to be around with a few exceptions. We also have a large group of visitors -- from locals enjoying our entertainment to workers maintaining our lawns. Again, most are wonderful people but not all. We need to be aware.

I have used the showers in the sports pools. After reading of Kirk's experience (an accidental entering is one thing; flicking of lights, pulling open shower curtains is another), there is no way I will shower there again, with or without a friend along.

It would be nice if the showers had keyed entries (and a relatively easy solution) -- ones that could only be opened by ID cards or that rec center assistants unlocked for us -- but I doubt that will happen. Lifeguards, especially at the neighborhood pools, would be nice but won't happen, either. If past experience is the norm, the odds are that if something tragic happened, the pools would be closed just like the buffalo were removed rather than coming up with a viable solution. And if you think this won't happen, you have to remember that the buffalo were a major part of the advertising for TV and it was implied that there would always be a viewable preserve for them here.

BTW -- A while back there was a thread about workers using the pool bathrooms. My attitude was and is that we should be tolerant and allow them to use the facilities -- there really aren't many public facilities available for them. If they're construction workers for TV, there are port-a-potties, but not for the lawn people and contractors working on individual homes. They need a place to go and I'd rather see them using these bathrooms than the side of someone's house.

Gracie, as to the developers reading TOTV, I don't think so, even though I do know that some employees do lurk here (don't post, don't admit to their superiors they check this site out, but they are here). If they did, they wouldn't be so opposed to this site. (Remember, the adminis cannot even place an ad in Sun about this site.) While we may grouse about some issues, in the main it is a very positive site for TV and one that shows just how much the residents and visitors love it here.

[Russ_Boston]

Originally Posted by Snowbirdtobe

I think that we are entitled to the following minimum level of protection

The cameras at the gates reading license plates.
See AAC minuets July 14th 2010

The age and residency requirements enforced for pools and rec centers

All alcohol laws enforced even if driving a golf cart
This is a requirement for selling alcohol everywhere even in TV and I
don't want to be driving through a tunnel with a drunk traveling toward me.

Published rules for "guest passes" enforced

All of these are responsible requests IMHO. Perhaps the only thing I would wonder about is how much they can check the pools. Does each pool have a person assigned full-time? If not then cost to do so would be an issue?

Originally Posted by redwitch

VJ, like you, I have been the victim of a personal attack by a male. To say it is life changing is putting it mildly. I do my best to not be afraid and to live my life. Strangely, I feel safe in public, but not in my own home. I do not invite anyone in -- I can't. I agree that TV is one of the safest communities I have ever lived in, but it is still a large community with a large diversity of people -- some kinder, gentler than others, but most being the kind of people we want to be around with a few exceptions. We also have a large group of visitors -- from locals enjoying our entertainment to workers maintaining our lawns. Again, most are wonderful people but not all. We need to be aware.

I have used the showers in the sports pools. After reading of Kirk's experience (an accidental entering is one thing; flicking of lights, pulling open shower curtains is another), there is no way I will shower there again, with or without a friend along.

It would be nice if the showers had keyed entries (and a relatively easy solution) -- ones that could only be opened by ID cards or that rec center assistants unlocked for us -- but I doubt that will happen. Lifeguards, especially at the neighborhood pools, would be nice but won't happen, either. If past experience is the norm, the odds are that if something tragic happened, the pools would be closed just like the buffalo were removed rather than coming up with a viable solution. And if you think this won't happen, you have to remember that the buffalo were a major part of the advertising for TV and it was implied that there would always be a viewable preserve for them here.

BTW -- A while back there was a thread about workers using the pool bathrooms. My attitude was and is that we should be tolerant and allow them to use the facilities -- there really aren't many public facilities available for them. If they're construction workers for TV, there are port-a-potties, but not for the lawn people and contractors working on individual homes. They need a place to go and I'd rather see them using these bathrooms than the side of someone's house.

Gracie, as to the developers reading TOTV, I don't think so, even though I do know that some employees do lurk here (don't post, don't admit to their superiors they check this site out, but they are here). If they did, they wouldn't be so opposed to this site. (Remember, the adminis cannot even place an ad in Sun about this site.) While we may grouse about some issues, in the main it is a very positive site for TV and one that shows just how much the residents and visitors love it here.

I doubt if getting rid of the sports pools would be a viable option if, heaven forbid, something nasty happened here in the Villages like a rape of a person using the shower at a sports pool.

Maybe, after the Villages have come to full development in a decade or more but until then they still have to sell the various homes still being built or planned to be built.

The local media would be all over a rape or something like that it the Villages. By local media I mean CBS, ABC, NBC, and Fox from the Orlando area as well as the various papers from Orlando, Ocala, and Leesburg. Such an event would probably result in a hike in amenity fees for more security at the sports pools.

From the various posts about lax monitoring of IDs at the sports pools, it seems like it would not take that many complaints about this problem to the powers that be to actually get something concrete done about this.