[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by jrref

Let me ask you, can you provide any benefit-to-cost data that doesn't justify the cost of a regular maintenance program?

But I see your point. What I disagree with is when you say spending money on having a professional check your system periodically is a waste of money.

I would have to go look for studies but you can go on Youtube and see tons of videos of HVAC repairs where the homeowner did no maintenance and the results.

Regardless, you just have to look at the science and engineering on how these systems work and how they typically fail to determine whether you think preventive maintenance helps prevent a failure and or prolongs the life of your system.

We can argue over preventing failures and I don't disagree, that's a whole other discussion but what we know for sure is depending on the maintenance you do or not, will have an effect on how long your system lasts. You can have what you think is a perfectly running unit, cooling the home just fine and have an electric bill that "looks" good but your system may not be running not as efficient as it could so you may be wasting money on excess energy exceeding the $200/year you could have spend making sure it's running efficiently. I think out of all the discussion we have been having, this is the main point. And you can't know for sure unless you take some measurements because If your not testing, you are guessing.

There is no end to the amount of money you can spend on periodic and preventive maintenance. If 12 months is acceptable and six months is recommended then three months is better yet. I can clean my own drain line but if it is not *professionally* cleaned then I'm at risk of it clogging within the next week. The washable filter I use is certainly not as good as the expensive filter on Amazon but even that is not as good as the OEM version. I could wait 20 years for the unit to become degraded but rather than take a chance that it is going to fail I should replace it at 15 years. And it goes on and on and on.

Benefit-to-cost when cost=$0 is immeasurable. The unit *is* going to fail sometime but I'll bet there are is no data to show how much time you will gain by spending $3,000+ on professional inspections.

These units require some minimal care and feeding. Replace the filter at recommended intervals. Flush the drain line once per month or be prepared to vacuum out a clog when it occurs. Have a spare capacitor ready or replace it every few (3? 4? 5?) years before it fails. Perhaps open the unit and spray cleaner on the evaporator coils or put an algicide tablet in the drain pan.

Beyond the steps above, the cost of inspections (not even maintenance, just inspections) increases greatly with little to no return. My unit is now 11 years old. If I had paid $150/year for inspections I would have $1,650 worth of assurances that the unit is still running fine. Yes, I was told once that the capacitor was out of spec but even had I not replace it, it still might be running fine.

Peace of mind is worth something, perhaps $150-$200 per year. If it makes you feel more comfortable to have someone check the unit, great, there's nothing wrong with that. But your fears are not my fears and while there really was a zebra running around downtown Murfreesboro that doesn't mean I should expect to see one in the Villages.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by jrref

Let me ask you, can you provide any benefit-to-cost data that doesn't justify the cost of a regular maintenance program?

But I see your point. What I disagree with is when you say spending money on having a professional check your system periodically is a waste of money.

I would have to go look for studies but you can go on Youtube and see tons of videos of HVAC repairs where the homeowner did no maintenance and the results.

Regardless, you just have to look at the science and engineering on how these systems work and how they typically fail to determine whether you think preventive maintenance helps prevent a failure and or prolongs the life of your system.

We can argue over preventing failures and I don't disagree, that's a whole other discussion but what we know for sure is depending on the maintenance you do or not, will have an effect on how long your system lasts. You can have what you think is a perfectly running unit, cooling the home just fine and have an electric bill that "looks" good but your system may not be running not as efficient as it could so you may be wasting money on excess energy exceeding the $200/year you could have spend making sure it's running efficiently. It's possible. I think out of all the discussion we have been having, this is the main point. And you can't know for sure unless you take some measurements because If your not testing, you are guessing.

You are correct that I am guessing. But, as an engineer, I do a certain amount of inspection and maintenance. If something doesn't seem right, I would call a technician.

I have a vehicle that cost 6 times as much as my HVAC system. I change the motor oil, tires, and brakes. That is all. To me, preventive maintenance is designed to make money for the people who sell it, not the customer.

There was another thread where people were recommending maintenance on a water heater. This is an appliance that costs about the same as a microwave oven. Definitely not worth maintaining.

[jrref]

M&S Air Conditioning is running a promotion, $59 for a A/C tune up. No description of what they do for the $59 but that's the cheapest I've seen here in the Villages.

[jrref]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

You are correct that I am guessing. But, as an engineer, I do a certain amount of inspection and maintenance. If something doesn't seem right, I would call a technician.

I have a vehicle that cost 6 times as much as my HVAC system. I change the motor oil, tires, and brakes. That is all. To me, preventive maintenance is designed to make money for the people who sell it, not the customer.

There was another thread where people were recommending maintenance on a water heater. This is an appliance that costs about the same as a microwave oven. Definitely not worth maintaining.

It's interesting, yesterday I saw a YouTube video of a HVAC tech who does some side work for his neighbors. This guy seems to have a lot of experience in the industry. He told a story of when he serviced his neighbors system which was 8 years old. He measured the capacitor and it was good. Just a little rusty. He did all his work then 2 weeks later the neighbor calls that the system stopped running. He goes back only to find the capacitor failed and he had to replace it. He was very upset because the system was 8 years old with the original capacitor, so he wanted to recommend that it be changed. But because it tested good he didn't try to convince the neighbor to change it. So now after a couple of cases like this, he tells his residential customers to just go ahead and change the capacitor and contactor every 5 years whether they need it or not. I forget which area of the country this tech was working but I feel here in the Villages where we use our A/C most of the year either for cooling or heat that this may be good advice to prevent an unexpected outage on the hottest day of the year.

[charles_2000]

Well, this thread has prompted me to buy a spare USA made capacitor to go along with my spare Tankless Gas Water Heater Ignitor Coil....

[elevatorman]

I put a shop vac on my line outside and a lot of stuff comes out. The hose on the one I got fits over the line when I take the little fitting off the end. I suck the line out and then pour water down the pipe. You only need the pan to overflow once to figure this out. https://www.harborfreight.com/3-gall...uum-64753.html

[jrref]

I just read a statistic from the US Department of Energy, A Field Study to Characterize Fault Prevalence in Residential Comfort Systems, that about 65%-70% of coolent leaks in your HVAC system occor in the evaporator coil. They believe the reason is because people use vinegar and bleach products for cleaning causing premature corrosion of the evaporator coil. But I know there are many hear in the Villages who have used these products for over 20 years and never had a problem and it's because they had an older system. I'll bet if they opened the airhandler and looked at the evaporator coil there would be significant corrosion. On the newer systems the coil material is different so they only recommend hot tap water.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by jrref

I just read a statistic from the US Department of Energy, A Field Study to Characterize Fault Prevalence in Residential Comfort Systems, that about 65%-70% of coolent leaks in your HVAC system occor in the evaporator coil. They believe the reason is because people use vinegar and bleach products for cleaning causing premature corrosion of the evaporator coil. But I know there are many hear in the Villages who have used these products for over 20 years and never had a problem and it's because they had an older system. I'll bet if they opened the airhandler and looked at the evaporator coil there would be significant corrosion. On the newer systems the coil material is different so they only recommend hot tap water.

Any chance you can provide a link to this analysis?

[Spartan86]

Originally Posted by jrref

I just read a statistic from the US Department of Energy, A Field Study to Characterize Fault Prevalence in Residential Comfort Systems, that about 65%-70% of coolent leaks in your HVAC system occor in the evaporator coil. They believe the reason is because people use vinegar and bleach products for cleaning causing premature corrosion of the evaporator coil. But I know there are many hear in the Villages who have used these products for over 20 years and never had a problem and it's because they had an older system. I'll bet if they opened the airhandler and looked at the evaporator coil there would be significant corrosion. On the newer systems the coil material is different so they only recommend hot tap water.

I find it interesting that the average Joe could get to/access their evaporator coil to use the wrong solution and hasten corrosion. How many average homeowners know where the evaporator coil is? There has been conversation here regarding what products to use to flush the condensate line, but I’d wager less than 1% of owners in TV flush their evaporator core with anything, much less the wrong thing.

[MrFlorida]

Just call when it breaks, the maintenance they provide is a joke.

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by Lancer

Sunshine Air charged mine. $164.00 for a capacitor while on a maintenance visit. It was supposedly under warranty.

Cabral charged me $ 125 during their service call.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Spartan86

I find it interesting that the average Joe could get to/access their evaporator coil to use the wrong solution and hasten corrosion. How many average homeowners know where the evaporator coil is? There has been conversation here regarding what products to use to flush the condensate line, but I’d wager less than 1% of owners in TV flush their evaporator core with anything, much less the wrong thing.

That’s why I’m interested in reading the paper. Bleach being used for cleaning was blamed for the corrosion but it wasn’t clear what was being cleaned. Were bleach vapors coming back up the drain pipe, were owners pouring bleach in the drain pan, were they using bleach to clean the coils themselves, or was the corrosion due to using bleach to clean the bathroom?

[jrref]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

That’s why I’m interested in reading the paper. Bleach being used for cleaning was blamed for the corrosion but it wasn’t clear what was being cleaned. Were bleach vapors coming back up the drain pipe, were owners pouring bleach in the drain pan, were they using bleach to clean the coils themselves, or was the corrosion due to using bleach to clean the bathroom?

I couldn't find the link to the paper again but here is another link. Basically what they are saying is the condensate line is usually very close to your evaporator coil. Bleach and Vinegar are corrosive so vapors can be sucked into the evaporator coil via the fan and or if you drain clogs and that mixture gets into the evaporator coil pan, can cause corrosion and premature evaporator coil failure. That's basically it. On older systems the construction may use thicker copper and other metal so it can take longer for corrosion to affect the coil. This is why most manufacturers are Now saying just use hot tap water once a month to flush out your condensate line.

AC Drain Line Clogged? Don’t Use Bleach Or Vinegar Until You Read This

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by jrref

I couldn't find the link to the paper again but here is another link. Basically what they are saying is the condensate line is usually very close to your evaporator coil. Bleach and Vinegar are corrosive so vapors can be sucked into the evaporator coil via the fan and or if you drain clogs and that mixture gets into the evaporator coil pan, can cause corrosion and premature evaporator coil failure. That's basically it. On older systems the construction may use thicker copper and other metal so it can take longer for corrosion to affect the coil. This is why most manufacturers are Now saying just use hot tap water once a month to flush out your condensate line.

Interesting. I would rather read the paper to see what it described as cleaning. I noted that this “recommendation” is actually an advertisement for a periodic maintenance contract.

Hot tap water once per month seems to work for me. A friend is having a more difficult time.

[jrref]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Interesting. I would rather read the paper to see what it described as cleaning. I noted that this “recommendation” is actually an advertisement for a periodic maintenance contract.

Hot tap water once per month seems to work for me. A friend is having a more difficult time.

Then it's best to just google causes of hvac evaporator failures and you will see a lot of information that refers to "studies". But at the end of the day, what I mentioned makes sense. In addition, my friend had his HVAC system replaced by Sunshine today and I asked the installer about this topic and the answer was do not put anything down the condensate line except hot tap water. He also said, he's seen a lot of damage to the PVC and the coils in his experience when customers put "chemicals" down the condensate line. He also said it may even void your warrenty but best to ask the manufacturer.