[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by TrapX

It has been stated this is ONLY a change to how things are funded. Not how services are provided. And it's been said there will be little to near zero change to the homeowner tax costs, but that appears to be up for debate.
If this is all true, then how will any EMS services change between keeping as-is and making the change? If the new district has nothing to do with service delivery, then why are they promoting better service as a need for the district? Just do it now.
Things don't add up. What is the real truth and why are some officials saying contradicting things?

Posts #1 and #67 should help.

The structures of the VPSD and SCFD, both of which will include ambulance service, will not change whether the IFD is approved or not. Delivery of fire, EMS, and transport services will not change immediately whether the IFD is approved or not, the IFD affects what happens after 2023.

[Goldwingnut]

I received an email from Kenney Blocker this afternoon that included a forwarded email about this posting. The email concluded that I was encouraging people to vote no on the referendum in November, this in not and was never the intent of this post. The post simply (OK, maybe not so simply) explains the processes that are going on now to determine the cost impact of the IFD and why it is not possible to give an exact number until the property values area certified by the Property Appraiser in June of 2023. If anything, I believe that I have actually painted positive picture of what is to come for Villages residents if the IFD is approved. I'll try a brief recap.

1. For those serviced by VPSD there should be no noticeable difference in service if the IFD is approved or not. The Difference will be in the level of control of the funding by the county, will it stay the same or will it be completely independent of the county.
2. The county must identify the cost of all fire services, SCFD and VPSD, and remove it from the general fund budget. This will result in a decrease in the ad valorum tax for everyone in the county. This ensures you are only paying for one fire service, no matter where you live.
3. If approved there will be 2 fire districts in Sumter County next year. Each with its own funding sources - separate MSBU and MSTU for each. VPSD will also receive $4.08/month/property from the amenity fee we all pay. There are also other funding sources that may go into determining the MSBU/MSTU for each fire department. These new fees will replace the ad valorum tax decrease.

Now for my opinion on the topic. As a resident, I believe that this is the best thing for the residents of The Villages as our needs are very different and it is better that we have control over the funding mechanism. The residents of the proposed IFD are the only ones who have a vote in this issue, those serviced by the SCFD have no say.

What I haven't previously discussed is one portion of the math involved, the number and value of the properties involved. The Villages represents about 75-80% of the properties in Sumter County with a higher average property value. Both fire departments have operating budgets in a similar range, which means that 75-80% of the properties will have to cover an operating budget similar to the budget that 20-25% will have to cover. As it stands right now, VPSD residents may pay considerably less for annual fire service than SCFD residents may have to pay. The naysayers and ill-informed neglect to point this out as well as the requirements of the adjustments to the ad valorum property tax to prevent double taxing. Good news doesn't sell newspapers, fear does.

For every decision there are always unintended consequences.

[Goldwingnut]

Originally Posted by TrapX

It has been stated this is ONLY a change to how things are funded. Not how services are provided. And it's been said there will be little to near zero change to the homeowner tax costs, but that appears to be up for debate.
If this is all true, then how will any EMS services change between keeping as-is and making the change? If the new district has nothing to do with service delivery, then why are they promoting better service as a need for the district? Just do it now.
Things don't add up. What is the real truth and why are some officials saying contradicting things?

The improved service delivery is really focused around the transport services (ambulance) that has already been decided, however some internal structural changes will result in a higher level of cross-skills qualifications (all fire fighters being EMT/paramedics) giving greater flexibility and skill to the responding unit. This does come at a cost.

Costs, or paying for these costs, is one of the big issues with the IFD. Currently the county holds the wallet for both fire departments, this has given rise to differences of opinion on what the funding should be for the VPSD and how the additional revenue sources should impact VPSD funding from the county. Letting the VPSD be funded from an IFD will allow the tailoring of services to better fit the needs of the residents and then only the benefiting fire district fund them.

I've not seen any "official" involved in the process have conflicting information or responses, all have been delivering the same message, that the final cost is still being developed because there still a lot of moving parts that must be determined. The easiest of these is perhaps the VPSD costing because it has operated nearly independently for many years now. The hard part is determining the number of homes and the property values that will be ultimately included in the IFD, until that is known the (in June of 2023) the exact millage rate to cover the IFD cost can't be determined. The District (Villages) can't say what the county will do with the tax rates because they are not involved in the county budget. The county can't say what the exact change will be yet because they are still working to identify and isolate the SCFD costs in the county budget and waiting for the Property Appraiser's final determinations.

Where I have seen conflicting opinions is in some candidate's (not officials) opinions on the process. Having listened to many, some are ill- or under-informed on the entire process and subject and are casting dispersions on the process because of their lack of understanding. Many are, in my opinion, trying to make noise to get recognition on the campaign trail, the realities of this issue seem to have no bearing on their "opinions".

My original post here was an attempt to bring to light some of the internal processes that are happening to form the IFD and determine its cost to the homeowners and county residents alike. My previous post here is the first that I know of that anyone has spoken to the math of the 80/20 population split in the county/fire districts and the impact that that will have on the individual residents here in the county.

Perhaps the worst part of all of this is that the people with absolutely no say in the matter, the residents that will not be part of the VPSD IFD in Sumter County, will be the most negatively impacted by this process.

[bobeaston]

Originally Posted by Kgcetm

Several neighborhoods collected funds from residents and installed their own defibrillators. Many residents elected to contribute, some didn't. Still, we've had defibrillators for a couple of years and have trained individuals living throughout the neighborhood.

Paying your own way is a great way to go.

Please be aware: Defibrillators are good for only ONE condition, when a patient is not responding and not breathing, and has no apparent heartbeat. They are NOT useful for the far more frequent and more common heart attack. While the people who respond to defibrillator calls are great at CPR, we STILL NEED the fire department first responders for heart attacks, as well as other medical emergencies. Don't believe that your local AED program negates the need for Fire department first responders.

Don't get me wrong. I strongly support the defibrillator programs and am active in helping get one started in my village, but I'm also grateful for that Fire Department only a couple of minutes away. We need both!

[Altavia]

Originally Posted by Goldwingnut

...

For every decision there are always unintended consequences.

So true, there are always "Unk Unk's" ( unknowen unknowns).

We can't let those stand in the way of the greater good.

Thanks for providing synthisis of the information currently available.

[jump4]

Originally Posted by Goldwingnut

....the people with absolutely no say in the matter, the residents that will not be part of the VPSD IFD in Sumter County, will be the most negatively impacted by this process.

This is something that concerns me. The tremendous development of The Villages should help elevate the surrounding area, not disadvantage it. Why are the current county commissioners being more transparent about this? Don't they represent the entire county?

?

[paulat585]

Originally Posted by Goldwingnut

This is a very long post on a very complex and important subject. I've taken the time to write it to help everyone understand the Independent Fire District issue.

There is a lot of concern about the upcoming vote on creating an Independent Fire District (IFD) formation vote that is coming up. There is also a lot of speculation and misinformation being spread by some who are trying to pass themselves off as “knowledgeable” or even as “experts”, some of these people are running for the various County Commissioner seats. At The Villages Republican Club meeting on Thursday, I heard some of these individuals speak and, in my opinion, attempt to spread fear and discontent about this as a way to sway voters on the issue and to vote for them. While I am not omnipotent in my knowledge of the topic, recent service as a District Supervisor on the CDD10 board and on PWAC as well as my current service as County Commissioner has had me deeply engaged in the issue.

What follows is an explanation of the issue and how it will impact residents in The Villages as well as outside The Villages in Sumter County. My knowledge about The Villages undertakings on the IFD is up to date as of my leaving office on June 10th when I assumed the position of County Commissioner, for the most up to date information, you should contact Mr. Kenny Blocker, the District Manager.

Concerning the IFD, there are several variables here and I'll try to explain them. Please keep in mind what I will explain is the "ideal" and “theoretical” situation and the numbers involved can and will most likely change so the net impact to any individual property owner or taxpayer is still unknown at this time.

First, we must look at the fire department structure in Sumter County, there are two, the Sumter County Fire & EMS department (SCFD) and The Villages Public Safety department (VPSD). Both are funded from the county general fund budget; the proposed budget is about $19.3M for Sumter County and $17.9M for VPSD for the 2023 fiscal year. About $37.2M in total, this is second only to the $42.4M proposed budget for the Sumter County Sheriff's Office budget.

Funding this is two principal sources 1) the $124 annual fire Municipal Service Benefit Unit (MSBU) for fires services on the property tax bill for each developed property in the county and 2) the county general fund funds the balance of the costs. There are currently 73 funding sources to the general fund and there may be some addition contributions from some of these other sources but for the sake of discussion since these would be minor sources, we’ll focus on these two primary funding sources. The MSBU projected contribution for next year (FY23) is about $9.1M, this leaves about $28.1M coming from the General Fund.

What happens next is the most important part of the process and was approved by the BOCC on Tuesday July 12th. We will have an independent company review and analyze the costs associated with the county fire department and transport services (ambulance) in the current budget and projected for the upcoming year. They will make a recommendation on the path forward for funding of the county fire department. The anticipated action is:
a) The current revenues and expenses for fire service for both fire departments will be removed from the FY24 budget. (Based on FY23 budget numbers this would be $19.3M + $17.9M in cost and $9.1M in revenue). This will result in a decrease of the ad valorem tax millage rate; these numbers are shown at the bottom of this posting.
b) The IFD and Sumter County will set a MSBU (separate, so they may be different for each) would be based on the actual number of properties serviced by each fire department and applied to their FY24 budgets. The Sumter County MSBU will be based on the outcome of the study approved by the BOCC and the IFD as determined by their needs and board’s direction.
c) Some of the remaining costs for the County Fire Department would then be assessed as a Municipal Service Taxing Unit (MSTU) on the properties service by the SCFD and not those serviced by the VSPD. The MSTU would be an ad valorem tax on the property. This will replace the ad valorem tax rate reduction for SCFD serviced residents.
d) The balance of the costs should be recovered in Transport Fees – the fees charged for transport by the county ambulance services that were approved last year. These costs and revenues still need to be calculated.

I'm no longer engaged with the VPSD and District office for The Villages since becoming a member of the BOCC but will share with you what I know of the anticipated plan for the VPSD funding. Please follow up with the District staff and Mr. Kenny Blocker (District Manager) for the most up to date details on this.
a) A board of supervisors for the Independent Fire District will be appointed by the Governor, presumably these will be residents within the IFD.
b) The IFD will determine its funding requirements and operating budget.
c) The IFD board will establish their own MSBU to support their funding – this is the fixed dollar amount per parcel.
d) The board will set their own MSTU (or equivalent) to cover the majority of the operating cost – this is the value-based ad valorem tax millage rate that could be as high as 2 millage points ($2 per $1000 assessed value).
e) The Villages residents also contribute $4.08 each month from each Amenity Fee paid to supplement the VPSD budget, about $3.5M as best I can recall from the budget workshops earlier this year. This helps fund the extra services such as smoke alarm battery change out and AED programs.
f) Like the SCFD, VPSD will also be collecting Transport Fees for the ambulance services they provide, these revenues will also be applied to the operating budget to offset costs.

Again, for the most accurate information please contact Mr. Kenny Blocker, The Villages District Manager.

For both fire departments there may be internal and external revenue sources that may offset some of the operating cost in addition to what I’ve described above. These will be up to their governing boards to pursue.

The vote on the general election ballot on November 8th is only about establishing the IFD and not about the ambulance services. The ambulance service issue was resolved last year and is moving forward in both fire districts. This is the result of residents of The Villages and County Residents requirements for better, more effective, and more responsive emergency transport services. The BOCC listened and reacted accordingly. This higher level of service will come with a price that reflects additional staffing and equipment costs. In the ideal world, these will be cost neutral and self-funding from the transport fees collected.

There may also be some startup costs for both fire departments associated with establishing an IFD that would have to be absorbed in their initial budgets.

In the end you should see on your county tax bill:
a) A lower ad valorem property tax
b) An MSBU – possibly different for each fire district
c) An MSTU – dependent on your fire districts budget requirements and any other offsetting revenue sources.

This method that is in motion that I have described removes the cost of fire protection and transport service from the general property tax bill and collects it from the separate MSBU and MSTU fees. It prevents residents in or outside The Villages from being double taxed for the fire services.

In the ideal world there would be a net zero change in your property tax bill, but there are other factors that come into play such as the costs and revenues from the in-house ambulance services that were approved last year, as well as many other things.

Again, please understand that what I've described is the ideal situation and there are many variables that will impact this and there are a lot of numbers to be crunched to determine the exact impacts and cost. Also, please reach out to Mr. Blocker for more details on the VPSD funding side.

One of the drums that have been being banged by these fear mongering “experts” is that the actual numbers for the cost impact won’t be known until June 30th 2023. While upsetting to some, this is not an attempt from either Sumter County or VPSD to hide anything, it is simply because these numbers are still being and will continue to be calculated. A little forethought should put this issue into perspective:
a) On the county side the ad valorem millage rate adjustment can’t be calculated until the exact number of properties and their values are determined in each fire district is known, this is a huge task that the Property Appraiser must do each fiscal year.
b) Both fire departments have to determine their operating costs under the new configurations, this is still in transition.
c) Transport costs and recovery rates that impact the budgets can’t be accurately determined until they are operational and have some operating history.
d) Current economic conditions (inflation) are very unpredictable, the closer to the go-live point that budgets are determined the more accurate they will be.

All of these things being considered we can do some rough calculations on some of the impact of the proposed changes. I’ll use the proposed FY23 budget numbers to get an approximation of some of the items.
To determine the ad valorem tax millage rate change we need to know two things, 1) the value of the fire service costs to be removed and 2) the value of 1 millage point.

How much will be removed from the general fund budget, I’ve discussed this already discussed this – about $37.2M less the amount collected by the current MSBU of $124/property/year $9.1M or about $28.1M. (unrounded is $28,188,777)

How much is a millage point worth? In the proposed FY23 budget the millage rate of 5.5936 will yield $95,037,767 in ad valorem taxes or about $16,990,447.48 per millage point.

With these numbers the ad valorem tax millage rate anticipated change would be:

$28,188,777/$16,990,447.48 or 1.6591 points or about a 29.7% decrease in the ad valorem tax rate for the county general fund budget.

The current MSBU of $124/yr will also be removed from the county tax bill.

This ad valorem tax decrease and MSBU removal will be replaced by a new tax, an MSTU, and a new MSBU for each fire district on the county tax bill. How much these new taxes are still being determined. If I had to guess, on The Villages side the rates may be comparable between old and new, on the county side it is much more difficult to determine so I won’t speculate at this time.

Again, these numbers are very rough and have a great many other factors that will be considered that will affect them. These are also based on FY23 values and not the more accurate yet to be determined FY24 numbers. Overall, this should give you some ideas of what things are looking like.

Neither the Sumter County BOCC or The Villages District Staff are trying to hide any information or misrepresent anything to anyone, it is simply a very complex and lengthy process both are going through in preparation for a possible approval vote to the referendum in November. Information has been and will continue to be made available as it becomes available.

Finally, once again I say, for the most up to date information on The Villages side of the issue please contact Mr. Kenny Blocker, and on the Sumter County side we won’t have accurate answers until sometime in the first half of 2023 when the study is completed.

I know this explanation is lengthy and detailed, it is a complex issue and process. I hope this explanation has helped you understand where things are going with funding of the fire departments in Sumter County.

One last thought, this may be a difficult decision for some, the only advice I can give on this issue is when to determine if it is worthwhile. The only time you will truly be able to answer what the value of all this is when those big red trucks roll up to your home as the smoke is coming out the windows and all your possessions or the life of someone you love is at risk and these brave men and women step in to do their jobs, or as you let the hand of your most cherished one go as they are loaded into the ambulance on the way to the hospital. It is only at these moments that you will ever know that on November 8th, if you made the right decision.

Thank you

[TrapX]

Look at the candidate's published positions (league of women voter's survey is one) about the cancellation for county tax portion IF the new district tax passes.
Several say they will not remove the double taxation. Simple proof that passing this is not fiscally sound.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by TrapX

Look at the candidate's published positions (league of women voter's survey is one) about the cancellation for county tax portion IF the new district tax passes.
Several say they will not remove the double taxation. Simple proof that passing this is not fiscally sound.

Could you provide a simple link to that survey? Or to any other information that backs up your claim? (I'm still looking on the LWV site but haven't found any survey)

EDIT: Never mind, here it is
EDIT 2: It appears you didn't read the survey or are intentionally misrepresenting the results. Out of nine candidates, one did not respond, two didn't understand the question (or chose to answer a different question) and the other six supported lowering taxes.

I have listened to two candidate forums and read what has been published in local papers. I have not seen or heard anything from any candidate saying they would "not remove the double taxation." The ONLY thing I have seen or heard in that information is Commissioner Wiley's discussion of the study the current Commissioners have in place to determine how much to remove.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Goldwingnut

...

How much will be removed from the general fund budget, I’ve discussed this already discussed this – about $37.2M less the amount collected by the current MSBU of $124/property/year $9.1M or about $28.1M. (unrounded is $28,188,777)

How much is a millage point worth? In the proposed FY23 budget the millage rate of 5.5936 will yield $95,037,767 in ad valorem taxes or about $16,990,447.48 per millage point.

With these numbers the ad valorem tax millage rate anticipated change would be:

$28,188,777/$16,990,447.48 or 1.6591 points or about a 29.7% decrease in the ad valorem tax rate for the county general fund budget.

The current MSBU of $124/yr will also be removed from the county tax bill.


...

Thank you for these numbers. The discussion is clear and the numbers can easily be found in the FY 22-23 Proforma Budget Document in the BoCC agenda.

However, not all the numbers match.

The Ad Valorem taxes for FY 2023 are $95M as you mention above. With $28 being removed from FY2024 it would be expected that the FY2024 Ad Valorem amount would be $67M + $2M growth for a total of $69M. However, the number shown in the budget document is $81M.

$95M - $28M = $67M (expected)
$81M (actual) - $67M (expected) = $14M (increase)
If $2M of the increase is projected growth that means a $12M tax increase.

$12M (increase) / $67M (expected) = 18% tax increase being planned for the 2023-2024 budget.

These numbers are for the FY2024 budget which will be built next summer.

At which BoCC meeting or workshop next year would it be appropriate to discuss what appears to be the second large tax increase in five years?

[Altavia]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Thank you for these numbers. The discussion is clear and the numbers can easily be found in the FY 22-23 Proforma Budget Document in the BoCC agenda.

However, not all the numbers match.

The Ad Valorem taxes for FY 2023 are $95M as you mention above. With $28 being removed from FY2024 it would be expected that the FY2024 Ad Valorem amount would be $67M + $2M growth for a total of $69M. However, the number shown in the budget document is $81M.

$95M - $28M = $67M (expected)
$81M (actual) - $67M (expected) = $14M (increase)
If $2M of the increase is projected growth that means a $12M tax increase.

$12M (increase) / $67M (expected) = 18% tax increase being planned for the 2023-2024 budget.

These numbers are for the FY2024 budget which will be built next summer.

At which BoCC meeting or workshop next year would it be appropriate to discuss what appears to be the second large tax increase in five years?

Thanks for the synthisis Don!

[Rainger99]

Originally Posted by Goldwingnut

One last thought, this may be a difficult decision for some, the only advice I can give on this issue is when to determine if it is worthwhile. The only time you will truly be able to answer what the value of all this is when those big red trucks roll up to your home as the smoke is coming out the windows and all your possessions or the life of someone you love is at risk and these brave men and women step in to do their jobs, or as you let the hand of your most cherished one go as they are loaded into the ambulance on the way to the hospital.

I am new here so I don't know much about the current services.

Are people dying because of long wait times for ambulances or are houses burning down because fire trucks aren't getting to the scene on time? How do response times compare to the rest of Florida? Are we slower, faster, or about the same?

[Altavia]

Originally Posted by Rainger99

I am new here so I don't know much about the current services.

Are people dying because of long wait times for ambulances or are houses burning down because fire trucks aren't getting to the scene on time? How do response times compare to the rest of Florida? Are we slower, faster, or about the same?

EMT/Fire are usually on the scene within 5-10 min.

It's not unusual for an ambulance to arrive (if needed) 30-40 min after EMT/Fire services arrive.

This obviously delays the patient reaching emergency/hospital services and ties up EMT/Fire services longer than necessary.

[Rainger99]

Originally Posted by Altavia

It's not unusual for an ambulance to arrive (if needed) 30-40 min after EMT/Fire services arrive.

What is the reason for this delay?

And how will a new district make response times better?

[Kenswing]

Originally Posted by Rainger99

What is the reason for this delay?

And how will a new district make response times better?

Because the current ambulance transport provider (AMR) didn’t have enough resources dedicated to the county. I think Don said that they only had 7 or 8 ambulances county wide. The Villages Public Safety Department has purchased 12 new ambulances. Of those, nine will be front line units with 3 used as spares. The County has also purchased, I think 12 ambulances. So you can see that county wide we’re going from about 7 available ambulances to around twenty or so. I would say it’s fair to assume we’ll see higher fire costs. We just tripled the number of ambulances we’ll have. I’ll happily pay the increase to insure my loved ones and neighbors can get to the hospital in a reasonable time.