[robertj1954]

I have had a few opportunities to talk with Ms. Tutt. I have a very high opinion of her leadership and her interaction with residents of The Villages. She is very engaged with both the districts and the Developer in making The Villages the best retirement community in America. I feel she is doing an outstanding job.

[mickey100]

Originally Posted by Advogado

...
By the way, I personally know most of the plaintiffs in the class action and I have a lot of respect for them and for what they did for all of us. If you have any questions about the settlement, I am sure that they would be glad to answer them. Furthermore, if you have any concerns that the plaintiffs were motivated by anything other than protecting the rights of the Villagers, which at the time were being abused by the Developer, I can assure you that you are barking up the wrong tree.

My only concern about the settlement is that maybe the $43,000,000 might turn out not to be enough (if, for example we get a huge increase in the minimum wage or the IRS investigation turns out badly), but we will have to deal with that if and when a problem arises.

I read some of these posts where people attack the plaintiffs, and I just have to shake my head. They sacrificed several years of their lives to move the lawsuit ahead, a lawsuit that was brought unselfishly to benefit the residents of The Villages. We are so fortunate they worked in our behalf.

[nitehawk]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

This sounds like a broken record...................................

I turn off broken records --- and i stop making comments

[mickey100]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

This sounds like a broken record...................................

Sometimes it takes many tries to get through to people.

[PennBF]

In a number of cases the person(s) commenting bring up "Personalities" and how terrific someone in authority of The Villages Management is. The important and critical item is the "Governing System" in place and not the "Personality/Person". I know a lot admire the Developer and tout him to the point of being blind. He is a "Billionaire". He runs The Villages and continues to build his personal wealth based on income from The Village residents. Is that wrong? Only if he is gaining that income from abuses because of his authority. What is important is for TV's to have a governing system which prevents abuses and that does not exist. That is a fact and cannot be argued. Although Janet Tutt may be doing a good job it should not be forgotton nor lost that she is in the position/appointed by a series of actions that allegedly lead back to the Developer. Is that a healthy system, heck no. It is only as good as the person and the residents deserve better than that. Do I love the Villages? As I have said many times ..You betcha.Do I plan to stay and enjoy the community, You betcha. Do I think it is open to abuse because of the system of Personality vs Governing law, You betcha. What ever happened to those that have studied history and understand what I am saying? I am sure not that many cut those classes in school/college. :

[Warren Kiefer]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

This sounds like a broken record...................................

It wouldn't sound like a broken record if before posting people would know the facts. Should we ignore a person stating that the developer pays Janet Tutt's salary when this absolutely untrue ??? Or that Janet Tutt works for the Developer, which is also totally false. It is very important that all information regarding any subject be factual. Otherwise, incorrect information gets passed on and on.

[dillywho]

Anybody see the independent audit results in today's paper? Sounds like somebody's doing something right. Just sayin'.

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by dillywho

Anybody see the independent audit results in today's paper? Sounds like somebody's doing something right. Just sayin'.

Oh but, what if?

[mickey100]

Originally Posted by PennBF

In a number of cases the person(s) commenting bring up "Personalities" and how terrific someone in authority of The Villages Management is. The important and critical item is the "Governing System" in place and not the "Personality/Person". I know a lot admire the Developer and tout him to the point of being blind. He is a "Billionaire". He runs The Villages and continues to build his personal wealth based on income from The Village residents. Is that wrong? Only if he is gaining that income from abuses because of his authority. What is important is for TV's to have a governing system which prevents abuses and that does not exist. That is a fact and cannot be argued. Although Janet Tutt may be doing a good job it should not be forgotton nor lost that she is in the position/appointed by a series of actions that allegedly lead back to the Developer. Is that a healthy system, heck no. It is only as good as the person and the residents deserve better than that. Do I love the Villages? As I have said many times ..You betcha.Do I plan to stay and enjoy the community, You betcha. Do I think it is open to abuse because of the system of Personality vs Governing law, You betcha. What ever happened to those that have studied history and understand what I am saying? I am sure not that many cut those classes in school/college. :

[rubicon]

Originally Posted by dillywho

First, let me say thank you for taking the time to respond to my post. Let's get one thing out of the way first. Please read my post again because I stated that I am not telling anyone to leave. Quite the contrary. I merely asked why someone would stay if they were so unhappy, dissatisfied, and bothered by what they signed on for. Some, if not most, of the issues that have been brought out are old and general knowledge, so do people not do any research beforehand? There are no bones made about how The Villages operates.

What I'm about to say is and isn't along the same lines, so please don't be offended. I am noticing more and more that people are moving here and then immediately want to start changing things to what "they are accustomed to back home". They don't like this, they don't like that, etc. Once again, do they not check it out first? Everything is not about what I like/don't like, you like/don't like, etc. That's why there is so much here....something for everyone. We knew when we moved here that there are no fences, no hedges above a certain height allowed, pet limits, etc., and accepted it.

Don't know who remembers, but Sumter One came about because our county taxes were being used everywhere in the county but here, because there was no representation for our part of the county. I don't see that being the case with the Developer because we do benefit from our own monies and always have. Maybe not like some would prefer, but we do reap the benefits.

I agree with your question about whether this is still a retirement community or more a vacation destination. I have seen it evolving since I've been here into more of a vacation spot for people who have no family or friends here. I don't like that. Maybe the hope is that they will like it and move here, but I don't really see that happening because so many are young families.

This is already too long, but as to the lawsuit, I agree with a lot of what you were saying about the lack of transparency. I don't agree with some getting personal settlements, either. I don't agree with some of the decisions made by the "Board (AAC)", but some good has come out of all of it. They were not refused by the Developer to do anything about the cart paths, but patches only were in the offing. Once the AAC was established, new paths were constructed. Much better.

As for the IRS, if their case were as strong as they would have others believe, it would not still be a lingering issue. This is only the 3rd or 4th time for this fight.

Thanks again for engaging me. We may not see completely eye-to-eye, but you and I both have some valid points. I do love discussions.

Hi dillywho: we do agree on most things concerning this topic. However as to my comments regarding if you don't like it....what I am trying to say is disagreement is not disloyalty I may not like something or some event going on in TV but it does not mean I do not like TV or want to live here.

As to Sumter One I get concerned that 5 county commissioners being so close aligned with TV. It is always prudent and good business that there never be even" the appearance of impropriety and or a conflict of interest"

As to the multi modal cart paths I do not know if theACC attempted to have the Developer re-do them on his dime because in my view they were improperly designed (width) and the Developer should have at minimum thrown in some of his own money

Nothing goes quickly with the government except taxpayers monies so I am not surprised by the lengthy IRS battle and I don't see it as a sign that either side has lost or won

I also love a good discussion but unfortunately the climate of our time makes the impossible because there are far too many overseers who shut down any worthwhile debate. I long for the days of Bill Buckley debates where extreme opinions met fought and then celebrated in friendships forged owing to mutual respect.

Personal Best Regards

[rubicon]

Originally Posted by Advogado

I am always willing to be educated, but it is inconceivable to me that the terms of a settlement in a class-action suit could ever be kept confidential from the members of the class (i.e., all the residents north of 466), but that is what you are alleging. Could you clarify for me exactly what confidentiality agreement you are referring to? I am relatively familiar with the class action, and a this is the first time that I have heard of it.

By the way, I personally know most of the plaintiffs in the class action and I have a lot of respect for them and for what they did for all of us. If you have any questions about the settlement, I am sure that they would be glad to answer them. Furthermore, if you have any concerns that the plaintiffs were motivated by anything other than protecting the rights of the Villagers, which at the time were being abused by the Developer, I can assure you that you are barking up the wrong tree.

My only concern about the settlement is that maybe the $43,000,000 might turn out not to be enough (if, for example we get a huge increase in the minimum wage or the IRS investigation turns out badly), but we will have to deal with that if and when a problem arises.

Hi Avogado: I didn't make this up it came from the plaintiff attorney herself when she reported the facts of the settlement in a special 3/18/09 meeting. She said there were certain things she could not discuss because there was a confidentiality agreement made. a meeting by the way to explain why the parties never divulged the amounts paid to the plaintiffs or the plaintiff attorney and which local Orlando and Ocala newspapers did report the settlements which caused an uproar and forced the 3/18/09 meeting. I draw no conclusions here I imply and infer nothing about this settlement

since you know all of the plaintiffs perhaps you best be served to ask them yourself. Frankly I don't care because I don't have a dog in this fight. I was simply sharing information. I do not imply or infer anything about this settlement other than sharing information

I don't have any concerns about the settlement except the concern you cite...was the first offer sufficient or was more to be had? I say more because the Developer doesn't give in to anyone unless it is not in his best interests.

Personal Best Regards

[Advogado]

I simply cannot fathom the complaints, by a few posters on this board, about lack of transparency or some dark, underlying conspiracy in the class-action lawsuit. While one may have legitimate concerns (I do) about whether the $43 million settlement may turn out to be inadequate, the complaints expressed in this board, in my view, have no basis in fact. There is nothing opaque about the class-action lawsuit or its settlement, except for the obfuscation that have appeared from time-to-time in the Daily Sun, the Homeowners' Association newsletter, and statements made by Janet Tutt. There is certainly no dark, underlying conspiracy. Everything is a matter of public record, and it has been explained over the years in numerous POA Bulletins. But it does take some effort to actually understand everything-- much more effort than sitting at one's computer keyboard and carping and speculating.

If anyone has any concerns about the class action, he or she can walk away from the computer keyboard, go to the courthouse, and look at the case file. Then, if any questions remain, go to the next POA meeting, and ask your questions to one or more of the lead plaintiffs. I am confident that they will be glad to answer them. They have nothing to hide, and I think that they should be proud of what they have done for us. It would be nice if some of the beneficiaries of their actions would take the time to understand the facts before criticizing.

[the square]

You see what happens when there is a slow news day or crappy weather. Some people just have to scratch where there is no itch. If some of these pot stirrers did all they're home work BEFORE they moved here and liked what they saw, this needless nitpicking
would not occur. Then we could move on to "dogs at the squares" and other major gripes. LOL

[Warren Kiefer]

Originally Posted by rubicon

Hi dillywho: we do agree on most things concerning this topic. However as to my comments regarding if you don't like it....what I am trying to say is disagreement is not disloyalty I may not like something or some event going on in TV but it does not mean I do not like TV or want to live here.

As to Sumter One I get concerned that 5 county commissioners being so close aligned with TV. It is always prudent and good business that there never be even" the appearance of impropriety and or a conflict of interest"

As to the multi modal cart paths I do not know if theACC attempted to have the Developer re-do them on his dime because in my view they were improperly designed (width) and the Developer should have at minimum thrown in some of his own money

Nothing goes quickly with the government except taxpayers monies so I am not surprised by the lengthy IRS battle and I don't see it as a sign that either side has lost or won

I also love a good discussion but unfortunately the climate of our time makes the impossible because there are far too many overseers who shut down any worthwhile debate. I long for the days of Bill Buckley debates where extreme opinions met fought and then celebrated in friendships forged owing to mutual respect.

Personal Best Regards

My background is Civil Engineering and I always have an interest in all types of construction. I did some personal checking of the failing multi modal paths at various locations. The concrete was at times only a 3 inch thickness and at times less. The plan required a depth of at least 4 inches. This is a 25% loss in strength, a serious loss for sure. While I was working, every aspect of the construction was inspected so as to be in accordance with specifications. As far as I can determine, no construction inspector is normally on hand to insure the contractor is doing exactly what he is paid to do. Most contractors will cut every corner possible if it puts money in his pockets.

[dillywho]

When the trails were first built north of CR 466, the population was very, very small. Unless one had a crystal ball, the growth explosion could not have been too accurately forecast. I'm sure they hoped and planned for expansion but not an explosion.

When we came here for our LSV in 2002, carts were only allowed to be operated between the hours of dawn and dusk. Night driving was not permitted. At that time, with very limited use, the original cart paths were quite adequate. Nothing was built or being built beyond 466 and not much up to it. The rules for night operation of the carts came about sometime in 2003. We returned in 2003, bought, and built. Summerhill was just a baby then. We had to go to SS or Mulberry to shop, eat out, etc. (no Southern Trace) or to Leesburg and Ocala.

You, as an engineer, probably know that much has changed and much knowledge has been gained in your field of expertise since the late 80's and early 90's. This would probably account for the better paths being built now as opposed to then.

Hope this sheds a little light on the whys for some things. What is adequate now, may not be in the future.