[Byte1]

Oh, it's OK to be "empathic" toward the poor homeless that want to camp on your street corner, but heaven help any of your neighbors for putting up a tiny cross in their lawn or a bird ornament.
If these folks that are camping do not belong here, then they should not be allowed to camp out here, period. I care, but most homeless seem to be homeless by choice or are mentally inhibited (and that should also be addressed). I don't want homeless camping in my community and I don't want squatters living in vacant homes. I pay extra to live here when I could just as easily live cheaper elsewhere because I like this place. I will like it less if my neighbors tell me that they fear being accosted by "homeless." If that seems cold, then you all can invite them to stay with you and I won't have anything to say about it.

[jimbomaybe]

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive

Bingo!

In Minnesota (with similar occurrences in most other states) the push began in the early 70's with a court case, Welsch v. Noot; Patty Welsch being a young disabled woman and Noot being the Minnesota Commissioner of Public Welfare. The gist of the case was that A) persons with mental and physical handicaps deserved to receive habilitative services; and B) that such people deserved to live in the least restrictive setting possible for their needs. Hard to argue with that, but as the years went by and people were moved from the large institutions ("State hospitals" in Minnesota; "Colonies" in neighboring Wisconsin) those large edifices, many approaching a century old, no longer had any use and were gradually consolidated and closed. The irony was that persons over 18 who were NOT under State or private guardianship or in the custody of corrections had the right to live where they pleased. Also, it was recognized somewhat vaguely that such people had the right to be mentally ill and as such, if they chose NOT to take their meds, it was completely up to them.

The result was inevitable. When it was recognized that some of these people could NOT be helped other than in an institution, the institutions either no longer existed or had been transformed into prisons. In Minnesota, particularly in the Minneapolis - St. Paul metro and first-ring suburbs, dozens of homeless encampments sprouted, mainly in the public parks but one in particular that caught everyone's eye was one on a hillside close to the St. Paul Cathedral. I saw it last about two years ago. It was huge; tents, chairs, people lying on the grass, people urinating (and assumedly defecating) in the open, etc. The Minnesota-based Wilder Foundation, back in 2018, stated that "An estimated 19,600 Minnesotans experienced homelessness on any given night in 2018. 50,600 people experienced homelessness over the course of the year." That was four years ago, and as I understand it, for a variety of reasons, the estimates are far beyond that today. Remember--this is Minnesota, where living outdoors might easily mean snow for six months of the year and temperatures on the coldest nights reaching -30 f. or even lower.

The impact on the communities has been far from just financial. Before our retirement my wife worked in downtown Minneapolis, riding the bus there from a suburban park-and-ride, and what she saw sometimes were beyond shocking. The homeless would come into the city from the parks and basically take over the bus stops particularly in the winter. My wife witnessed people doing their business completely in the open. There've been numerous instances of public masturbation and people having sex, again in the open. Panhandlers have gone from asking for money with a sad song-and-dance spiel to actively and aggressively demanding money from passers-by. There've been assaults, by homeless against one another and against passers-by. Drug use is rampant. Inner-city Minneapolis is going from a bustling city to, more and more, a deserted place as people who work there either find other jobs or take advantage of working from home. I know less about the situation in St. Paul, but last I heard things are pretty much paralleling Minneapolis over there. One particularly noisome and obnoxious practice over there is the homeless using the skywalks as toilets as well as sheltering in them at night. Though I cannot remember the particulars I recall an action over there that opposed closing the skywalks at the end of the business day because the homeless would be inconvenienced.

Yes. Our short-sighted policies created this monster (or actually "monsters" because most large cities probably have similar stories to tell). And yes. I have sympathy for these people. But how it is being handled, in all too many cases with kid gloves, is NOT working. If there is a growing homeless problem here in TV, then I will make it a point to crusade for the authorities to clean it up posthaste. I have seen firsthand what it can mushroom into. And I don't want to be anywhere near it.

The “homeless” lead miserable lives, there was a time when they would be institutionalized. They would have their freedom of movement taken away. Behavioral science could not and has not been able to have much success in helping them, they were required to take whatever drugs that were available to moderate their behavior. This was an unpopular situation for them, the ACLU came to the rescue, unless they were demonstrated to be a clear and present danger to themselves or others they could not be held against their will. The “homeless” preferred the freedom of the street where their behavior was not subject to any constraints other than whatever motivated them at any one time, they could take what drugs they wanted and could obtain. For the most part they are harmless but not necessarily so, how to predict the actions of individuals so unstable? Are they sane? Sometimes yes sometimes no, debatable definition, most ride the line and not sober if given any option. They are “homeless” because they have burnt out any family or friends network support, for the same reasons shelters are just a stop gap solution.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by LAFwUs

We live in one of, if not the furthest village south of FL-44 as possible currently. Some here have nick-named it "the deserted island" cuz, well...thats how it looks & feels. We border the turnpike.
anyway, We get both homeless and vagrant types coming thru rather often, believe it or not.

Walking alone, in pairs, carrying backpacks, pushing broken down bicycles, dirty, disheveled and clearly not residents. I see them normally around dusk, ruling out that they could be workers/laborers here working.

Literally last week, wife & I were on the golf course, when we encountered an individual, clearly homeless, hiking it between the turn pike & the golf course path, tracing the turnpike. We spotted him pop up from the edge brush, inside of what constitutes a "fence" there, moving in gradually to the golf course itself - where I can only assume walking for him was easier. He saw us, but didn't care. We continued to observe him as he walked west until he was out of sight.
It would not surprise me if there were some camping out near the new bridge is being constructed, or squatting temporarily in all that new village construction that's being built along the turnpike, as it is easily accessible by foot without detection, from non-village areas.

Anyone whose been out this way or checked out Newell development in person, could easily see how that could take place without anyone really noticing.
I've seen exactly ONE village patrol vehicle come thru this area in the entire year we've lived here, yet see them everywhere when we travel north of FL-44. There is NO -ONE patrolling or even monitoring out here that I can determine. I'm absolutely sure that near total lack of patrolling, does not go un-noticed by those seeking temporary hiding where they shouldn't be.
:/

That is lousy, for sure. I would be aghast. And to think.............we folks who live north of 44 have been told by more than one poster on this forum that WE are jealous of the folks who live down south. Hardly.

[Oldragbagger]

Originally Posted by elevatorman

Maybe someone could contact their church and ask for help. A shelter may be available for homeless in the area.

On it’s face this sounds like a good and caring solution. But it’s not that simple when dealing with the homeless. I’m not taking about the person who suddenly finds themselves living in their car because of an economic downturn, or the person who has fled a bad home situation and finds themselves with nowhere to go. That’s a whole different subject and helping that person find temporary housing would be absolutely the right thing to help them turn their situation around. But the long term homeless are a whole different matter.

How do I know this? I have an alcoholic brother who has lived on the streets, by choice, for 15 years. I’ve had plenty of dealing over the years with him and his homeless friends. Everyone in the family has tried to help him, time and time again, but one by one we all had to give up at a point when it started to have toxic effects on our own lives and families .

My brother has been in and out of shelters so many times but never stays because they come with some expectations of acceptable behavior or even, god forbid, rules which he refuses to adhere to. Such as, most churches won’t tolerate you sitting on your bunk drinking yourself into oblivion, or being aggressive, or using constant foul language, or……fill in the blanks.

These folks usually have either substance abuse issues, mental problems, or both. Just finding them a place to sleep isn’t the answer, and honestly, as much as we’d like to believe differently, the vast majority of them have no desire to change their lifestyle. As hard as it is for those of us who live a normal life within society to understand, there is a freedom and a lack of expectations that comes with their life that they don’t want to relinquish in order to get “help.”

He has been in and out of rehab probably a dozen times over the years. Rarely makes it past a few days. And he has been banned from some shelters. He knows where to get a free meal if he needs it, and prefers to sleep in a tent wherever he can. He has been camping in someone’s back yard (with permission) for a couple of years now. If that should end he “knows” all the spots he can go where he is unlikely to be bothered by the law. What would be unfortunate would be for our local homeless population to start to realize that our neighborhoods are one of those places.

Are they all dangerous? I don’t know. I don’t personally believe my brother would intentionally hurt anyone. Although I do think that he might perceive a threat in a drunken state and respond in an unpredictable manner. Do I think he would steal from you if given an opportunity? You betcha. They even steal from each other. Their justification, survival.

[hamsterfay]

I guess this will make our northern end of the Villages more valuable! No encampment problems up here that I know of.

[villager7591]

It's not "lucky" to put yourself through school, work hard for 40+ years, then retire here... You are where you are in life because of the choices that you make.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by jimbomaybe

The “homeless” lead miserable lives, there was a time when they would be institutionalized. They would have their freedom of movement taken away. Behavioral science could not and has not been able to have much success in helping them, they were required to take whatever drugs that were available to moderate their behavior. This was an unpopular situation for them, the ACLU came to the rescue, unless they were demonstrated to be a clear and present danger to themselves or others they could not be held against their will. The “homeless” preferred the freedom of the street where their behavior was not subject to any constraints other than whatever motivated them at any one time, they could take what drugs they wanted and could obtain. For the most part they are harmless but not necessarily so, how to predict the actions of individuals so unstable? Are they sane? Sometimes yes sometimes no, debatable definition, most ride the line and not sober if given any option. They are “homeless” because they have burnt out any family or friends network support, for the same reasons shelters are just a stop gap solution.

Wow---please tell me you're not serious.

It was "unpopular" for the mentally ill to be in a mental institution???? I didn't realize that a vote was required or that it was a popularity contest.

"freedom of the streets without constraints"???? Seriously?????

We all have "constraints" on the streets---it's called THE LAW

Urinating or defecating public is against the law
Masturbation or sex in public is against the law
Drug use is against the law
Drunk and disorderly is against the law
Harassing passers-by for money is against the law

Or is it being suggested that the homeless and mentally ill be granted more rights than everyone else??????

[Oldragbagger]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Wow---please tell me you're not serious.

It was "unpopular" for the mentally ill to be in a mental institution???? I didn't realize that a vote was required or that it was a popularity contest.

"freedom of the streets without constraints"???? Seriously?????

We all have "constraints" on the streets---it's called THE LAW

Urinating or defecating public is against the law
Masturbation or sex in public is against the law
Drug use is against the law
Drunk and disorderly is against the law
Harassing passers-by for money is against the law

Or is it being suggested that the homeless and mentally ill be granted more rights than everyone else??????

Sorry to have to agree but he is absolutely right. See my post #52.

[Carlsondm]

Originally Posted by LivingOnSunshine

Whatever. So not posting every day on every subject makes any post less true or less impactful? What’s your point? You want confirmation? Come sit at the base of the bridge.

He is probably looking for wisdom and solutions, not sarcasm.

[clouwho]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

Just to clarify, it is a church, but the services you mentioned are funded with taxpayer money.

We happen to be paying for a formerly homeless ex-convict whom we have love deeply to go through the residential drug and alcohol rehab at Christian Care Center at First Baptist in Leesburg. He is our starfish (assuming you are familiar with the starfish “parable” that you can’t save them all, but you can surely save ONE—and what is EVERYONE saved just ONE?!)

The funding comes from the churchgoers both at First Baptist and other area churches and private donations from individuals and area businesses. They have great success rates with the myriad programs offered by this terrific church. This is a church that puts its money where the gospel lives and breathes and changes lives!

There is a good movie out with Dean Cain, Sean Young and T.C Stallings about this church and it’s ministries that I highly recommend.

This is the trailer: No Vacancy (2022) - IMDb

This is where you can order a DVD or stream it: No Vacancy | Kingstone Studios

If EVERY town had a church and community that had one of these Christian care villages with great holistic care we still couldn’t eradicate the problems of mental illness and drugs. We have decades of doing nothing to fix the problem and decades of CREATING the problem.

A complete breakdown of the foundations for building healthy children functional adults and societies (faith, family and community…all deeply broken structurally in this country starting in the late 60s) leaves us with the human and societal wreckage that keeps growing year by year.

It is heartbreaking.

As to the encampments that have GREATLY increased in the villages area in past two years, they WILL proliferate if the problem is not nipped in the bud ASAP. Crime will go up, safety will be at risk, and the ability to enjoy what you have worked and sacrificed to save for in retirement will be in jeopardy.

There are no easy or prolific solutions to the root issues of broken souls, addicted and mentally I’ll souls restlessly wandering the earth like zombies. The Ocala forest has a massive number of homeless people and provides a place where they can pitch a tent and create micro communities. Is that optimal? Nope. But it is doable.

These people DO need to be removed from our residential and commercial areas before a stronghold is created. St Augustine and myriad other cities that haven’t normally had much of a homeless issue; did not act quickly enough or strongly enough in the past couple of years to the new type of homeless (young, socially malformed, aggressive, mentally unstable and addicted people) moving into their city and it has created real issues for business and tourism.

[Oldragbagger]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

That is lousy, for sure. I would be aghast. And to think.............we folks who live north of 44 have been told by more than one poster on this forum that WE are jealous of the folks who live down south. Hardly.

Don’t think you’re immune, because you’re not. The first homeless person I ever saw in The Villages was laying on the ground behind the shopping center next to the Villages Health at Pinellas. North or south doesn’t figure into it. If there is some imaginary line on the ground they don’t see it.

[clouwho]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

That is lousy, for sure. I would be aghast. And to think.............we folks who live north of 44 have been told by more than one poster on this forum that WE are jealous of the folks who live down south. Hardly.

It is NOT just down south.
Twice in the past month I have seen the same clearly unstable and clearly homeless woman wandering on canal street and lurking at the postal stations. She slept at the Largo pool one night

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Oldragbagger

Don’t think you’re immune, because you’re not. The first homeless person I ever saw in The Villages was laying on the ground behind the shopping center next to the Villages Health at Pinellas. North or south doesn’t figure into it. If there is some imaginary line on the ground they don’t see it.

No, that was just a Villager hawking golf balls from #3 of Palmetto

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by clouwho

It is NOT just down south.
Twice in the past month I have seen the same clearly unstable and clearly homeless woman wandering on canal street and lurking at the postal stations. She slept at the Largo pool one night

And as a non-resident that would be trespassing. The sheriff could haul her away.

[newgirl]

No, there are very few safety nets in this area for anyone..