Originally Posted by JoMar (Post 1040795)

Another parking space has now become available.

Originally Posted by BigbirdPhila (Post 1040750)

I say this as someone who meets friends at KB's two or three times a month for dining and dancing. Either lunch or dinner, or both. I drive 110 miles and 2 1/2 hours (round trip) to do it. Because KB's is unique. I won't do that for the "new" KB's. I will be able to have that same experience much closer to home.

Originally Posted by JoMar (Post 1040795)

Another parking space has now become available.

Originally Posted by Mleeja (Post 1040833)

I have a question? Someone help me out! If Katies Belles is a "residents only club" how is poster driving 110 miles to go to KBs? Are they a non-resident owner? Someone going as a guest of their Villager friend? This goes back to my theory of non-residents posting on this site trashing The Villages and/or the developers. I would like to see folks have thier Village listed in the upper right or state thier Village. BTW, mine is Santiago.

Originally Posted by newguyintv (Post 1040666)

Any time I've ever been there, which is as seldom as possible, there are many signs that lots of their clientele are NOT "Residents". I don't know who they are but you need to be blind not to notice they are "non residents".

Originally Posted by BigbirdPhila (Post 1040750)

There is one unique place to dine & dance in the Villages and it's being destroyed. People take visiting friends there to show off the community. Some of those visitors buy at the Villages partially because of seeing KB's. It's part of the tour Village real estate agents give to prospective buyers. There are golf courses, rec centers, restaurants, and bars in other retirement communities. But there is only one two-story dance hall, restaurant, and entertainment center that looks like it's something from the set of Gunsmoke. And it's in the Villages.

Management is taking something unique and turning it into a commodity. People can go to multiple places in the Villages for a reasonable quality meal, listen to free music, and dance on a small dance floor. There will be nothing "special" about the new KB's. It will be a commodity. What will be the point of even keeping it "residents only" any more?

Commodities don't increase property values. Unique venues increase the value of a community. It would be far cheaper & less risky to experiment first with opening KB's to the public to increase profitability. And/or charge a cover charge. BB King's in Orlando charges a cover charge just to enter -- whether or not you buy anything to eat. And its decor is mundane compared to KB's.

There is a "goodwill" value to KB's that should be added to its bottom line each year to determine its real value to the corporation & the community. The same technique used by accountants to assess the value of a business beyond its balance sheet. The goal should be to maximize the total value of the Villages corporate & private community, not individual components. Some components will contribute more, some less, to the overall value. Much like "loss leaders" are used in retail stores to draw in the customer who will then spend money on other items, increasing the store's total profit. Will another "commodity" restaurant increase the total value of the community more than a refurbished unique venue?

I say this as someone who meets friends at KB's two or three times a month for dining and dancing. Either lunch or dinner, or both. I drive 110 miles and 2 1/2 hours (round trip) to do it. Because KB's is unique. I won't do that for the "new" KB's. I will be able to have that same experience much closer to home.

Originally Posted by kstew43 (Post 1040880)

people do meet people at Katie Bells.......Someone in the party has to have the appropriate credentials.

We love it in the summer months when its just too dang hot to dance in the squares. It nice to be in the a/c in July and August, have dinner, drink a little and dance.

As far as recognizing your village, I think with some of the hostility on this site, I would not be in favor of that. Also some TOTV's are non residents, renters, landlords and the such. But security would be number 1.

Thats my opinion anyway, 'Im in favor of a cover charge that can be refunded if you spend that amount on food and drinks....

Originally Posted by otherbruddaDarrell (Post 1040896)

I agree with you. I have yet to spend under $20 any time I go and would not mind a cover charge as an entrance fee.
They could charge $10 at the door per person and give you a credit at the bar or at the dining room.
There have been many times I seen people come in and dance or set at the bar for several hours and have a water or nurse a drink and not spend very much.

Originally Posted by Bonny (Post 1040900)

Sounds good, but I remember years ago when they first tried a $2.00 cover charge. You would have thought the world was coming to an end !!! No one wanted to pay $2.00. Great entertainment,but no one wanted to pay a penny for it. It did eventually evolve into a $5.00 charge, however if you spent $5.00 it went towards the bill. Even that was deemed as the Villages being greedy. Believe me when I say they tried everything imaginable to make it profitable.
People now say they should have raised the prices. That was tried and the Villages was accused of trying to rip everyone off because they raised some of the prices $1.00.

Originally Posted by otherbruddaDarrell (Post 1041004)

I remember that also Bonny. People think that it is one of the free entertainment perks for living in the villages. It is free as long as they return any cover charge in the form of food or drinks. I think the ones who complain the most are those that take up seats and not spend much.
I used to be the Post Commander of a V.F.W. and when we changed the price of a mug of beer from .75 cents to $1 you would have thought the canteen patrons were being murdered!
We also owned a 50 seat café and was open for breakfast lunch and dinner. When people came in and sat for over an hour having coffee and taking up space.....................well you get the picture.
I like Katie Belles as it is but look forward to a change as well.

Originally Posted by Bonny (Post 1040900)

Sounds good, but I remember years ago when they first tried a $2.00 cover charge. You would have thought the world was coming to an end !!! No one wanted to pay $2.00. Great entertainment,but no one wanted to pay a penny for it. It did eventually evolve into a $5.00 charge, however if you spent $5.00 it went towards the bill. Even that was deemed as the Villages being greedy. Believe me when I say they tried everything imaginable to make it profitable.
People now say they should have raised the prices. That was tried and the Villages was accused of trying to rip everyone off because they raised some of the prices $1.00.

Originally Posted by Bonny (Post 1040892)

We have been here 15 years. I doubt very much if Katie Belles/Cattle Baron is adding any value to the community or our property and we love that place.

Originally Posted by Warren Kiefer (Post 1040304)

Only someone who is not aware of the vision of Harold Schwartz would use such words. Harold was not a money hungry person, he considered Villagers to be his family and in that vain he wanted all of us to share in the wealth. let me write out the numbers that were listed as the personal wealth of Gary Morse. 1.2,000,000,000. Same thing as 12 thousand millionaires. This is not what m
Mr. Swartz invisioned.

Originally Posted by BigbirdPhila (Post 1041040)

There is a reason the sales reps make a point to show KB's to prospective buyers. Their research must have shown that doing so helps improve the demand for the Villages' product -- housing.

Originally Posted by tuccillo (Post 1041023)

They do have a cover charge of sorts: a $3/person reservation charge to get a guaranteed table. We have gladly paid that for popular events.

Originally Posted by kstew43 (Post 1039487)

It's all about the money to be made......

Originally Posted by DougB (Post 1040878)

I won't have to worry about parking at the square. I bought a parking spot from a guy on Craig's List right in front of Dunkin' Donuts!

Originally Posted by DougB (Post 1040423)

Past performance was the vision of Gary Morse. Jury is still out on Mark and the others.

Originally Posted by Bonny (Post 1040900)

Sounds good, but I remember years ago when they first tried a $2.00 cover charge. You would have thought the world was coming to an end !!! No one wanted to pay $2.00. Great entertainment,but no one wanted to pay a penny for it. It did eventually evolve into a $5.00 charge, however if you spent $5.00 it went towards the bill. Even that was deemed as the Villages being greedy. Believe me when I say they tried everything imaginable to make it profitable.
People now say they should have raised the prices. That was tried and the Villages was accused of trying to rip everyone off because they raised some of the prices $1.00.

Originally Posted by sunnyatlast (Post 1041093)

Further proof that there are large numbers of people here who have never worked in a private-sector enterprise in which everyone has to focus on generating enough revenue to pay the bills of running the place, to at least break even.

I think a lot of people are absolutely clueless about the costs of running a place like Katie Belle's, and then they whine about low wages for workers. I swear some have no concept of an Income-Expense Worksheet!

Without a cover charge and with low spending, obviously TV has been subsidizing the operation to keep it afloat. At best, the revamp will bring it to break-even.

Some who complain and vilify business owners ought to put their money where their mouth is and start a business and try bringing in enough to pay its bills. But that would be too much work and personal sacrifice for those who want only an 8-5, Monday thru Friday 40-hour work week and fully vested pension at age 55.

Originally Posted by dillywho (Post 1041090)

I can remember when Gary Morse was the "bad guy" because he didn't do things like Harold Swartz. Now that he is gone, give them a break, please. None of them built this place so that everyone could have everything for free or cater to all the various whims of those coming here or those who have been here for many, many years. This is exactly what makes our The Villages so unique. To quote one of the engineers at the plant from which we retired, "This is not Burger King, and 'No', you cannot have it your way."

Originally Posted by dillywho (Post 1041090)

I can remember when Gary Morse was the "bad guy" because he didn't do things like Harold Swartz. Now that he is gone, give them a break, please. None of them built this place so that everyone could have everything for free or cater to all the various whims of those coming here or those who have been here for many, many years. This is exactly what makes our The Villages so unique. To quote one of the engineers at the plant from which we retired, "This is not Burger King, and 'No', you cannot have it your way."

Originally Posted by Allegiance (Post 1039481)

It certainly was presented as an Amenity to those buying near it. Giving them a chance when they can not undo the renovation is wrong. They are taking away more than 50% of the square feet and 80% of the cubic feet, and 100% of the atmosphere.

These young billionaires should look at the bigger picture. Dont listen to the Accountants all the time. You three appeared very sincere in "The Sharon" presentation, make your parents proud. :thumbup:

Originally Posted by dillywho (Post 1041112)

How many people on here remember when the space occupied by Chico's now was a part of Katie Belle's? It was called Delmonico's Steak House. This same furor arose when that went away. If I remember correctly, Cattle Baron came into being and was private....you had to be a member.

Also, the reasoning behind eventually making KB private, as well, was because the residents could not get in because it was being patronized so heavily by people from surrounding areas. We came here when you had to go to Ocala or Leesburg for many, many things. SS was the only game...there was no LSL even, much less Brownwood.

The point is, there have been many changes over the years, and there will be many more in the future. If the Morses go away, so will this community's uniqueness. That's how I 'envision' it.

Originally Posted by dillywho (Post 1041112)

How many people on here remember when the space occupied by Chico's now was a part of Katie Belle's? It was called Delmonico's Steak House. This same furor arose when that went away. If I remember correctly, Cattle Baron came into being and was private....you had to be a member.

Also, the reasoning behind eventually making KB private, as well, was because the residents could not get in because it was being patronized so heavily by people from surrounding areas. We came here when you had to go to Ocala or Leesburg for many, many things. SS was the only game...there was no LSL even, much less Brownwood.

The point is, there have been many changes over the years, and there will be many more in the future. If the Morses go away, so will this community's uniqueness. That's how I 'envision' it.

Originally Posted by blue72 (Post 1041089)

MY HERO!!!!!!!!!!!

Can you get a two fer on the spot?

Originally Posted by dillywho (Post 1041090)

I can remember when Gary Morse was the "bad guy" because he didn't do things like Harold Swartz. Now that he is gone, give them a break, please. None of them built this place so that everyone could have everything for free or cater to all the various whims of those coming here or those who have been here for many, many years. This is exactly what makes our The Villages so unique. To quote one of the engineers at the plant from which we retired, "This is not Burger King, and 'No', you cannot have it your way."

Originally Posted by Mleeja (Post 1041491)

I can't believe this topic has reached 20 pages! What more can be said???

Originally Posted by BigbirdPhila (Post 1041761)

Perhaps people can elaborate on what will draw them to the new KB's instead of the old KB's. Or, more importantly, what will draw them to the new KB's instead of the many other generic restaurants around the rest of the Villages and the surrounding area.

For me, it will be based on convenience. Minimize driving and parking hassles. It looks like there will be nothing to draw me specifically to the new KB's.

Originally Posted by Bizdoc (Post 1041773)

To help put things in perspective, how many of the "I Love Katie Belle" folks would drive to Brownwood if it were located there? Many of us that live in the southern part of TV are not all that wild about driving to SS just for an OK, but not great dinner. "Private Club?" thanks, but no thanks. Too many other good choices in the area (broadly cast to include Mt Dora, Ocala, etc.)

Originally Posted by Bizdoc (Post 1041773)

To help put things in perspective, how many of the "I Love Katie Belle" folks would drive to Brownwood if it were located there? Many of us that live in the southern part of TV are not all that wild about driving to SS just for an OK, but not great dinner. "Private Club?" thanks, but no thanks. Too many other good choices in the area (broadly cast to include Mt Dora, Ocala, etc.)

Originally Posted by Bizdoc (Post 1041773)

To help put things in perspective, how many of the "I Love Katie Belle" folks would drive to Brownwood if it were located there? Many of us that live in the southern part of TV are not all that wild about driving to SS just for an OK, but not great dinner. "Private Club?" thanks, but no thanks. Too many other good choices in the area (broadly cast to include Mt Dora, Ocala, etc.)

Originally Posted by Shimpy (Post 1039228)

I feel bad for the employees that will be out of work till fall while all this is taking place.

Originally Posted by Goober III (Post 1039489)

Having to climb a flight of stairs is not a great idea if you're trying to attract those in our age group. I know it has kept me and mine from eating at the Cattle Baron. One of the great attractions of moving here was getting away from all that stair climbing.