You got that right for sure about Mr. Midnight!!!!!

As recently as two weeks ago, prospective buyers were being told (and shown) the same thing. That what makes the closing of KB's different from the closing of some other restaurant in the community. It's a community icon and focal point.

The new KB's will share the same name but definitely not have the "wow factor" of the old one. A second floor, single-story restaurant with a stage and a small (or possibly non-existent) dance floor. A restaurant with free music and cramped dancing. How many other resturants in the Villages offer the same thing? And they're on the first floor and have open air decks. I wonder if the new KB's will be part of future Lifestyle Previews. I doubt it.

I don't think they are giving away any freebies anymore and haven't for a couple of years.

You mean the ho-ho's ?

Very disappointed. If anything they need Another Katie bealls in brown wood with the amt of people moving in. This was always talked about on the lifestyle tour and residents loved the dance hall saloon. How sad to take away what the residents loved

Cost effective raspberry martins and CERN's Hadron Collider
 

For fear of going off the deep end but hopping not to. chilout Since we seem to have a proliferation of acute economist commenting on this thread I wonder if they couldn't also shed some light on the billions of dollars being spent over 40 years on the CERN's Large Hadron collider to verify the existence of the Higgs particle ( or Higgs boson ) in the the standard model. I must admit to me it doesn't seem to be cost justify but yet Europe keeps putting more money into it. They must know something I don't - I know, hard to believe ). I wonder if the economists are asking the people in Europe to buy CERN and run it profitable.


Oh, Did I mention the only other thing I don't understand is the planned renovation of the beautiful / unique Kati Belle's. And to be honest this actually bothers me a lot more then the billions being spent by CERN finding the Higgs boson.

While we re at it. It also seems like the definition of renovation needs to be changed in Wikipedia to add "or making the structure most cost effective".
Currently it reads > Renovation (also called remodeling) is the process of "improving" a "broken", "damaged", or "outdated" structure.


Now again back to my taxes and Mutual Fund / stock cost basis (with reinvestment of capital gains and dividends > transferred from broker to broker), which I could also use some help understanding > forget that too I'll just take a muddled old fashion with Southern Comfort or perhaps a raspberry martini (no Gray Goose, My wife said that was too expensive and not cost justified with Chambord Black Raspberry in it > come to think of it, I wonder if it was her making the posts that Kati Belle's had to be cost justified?).

Life is too short to take serious.

Higgs boson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

i think Brownwood would be a good place for a new Katie Bells. Then if it fails again folks will quit complaining....

Life style visit is not what it used to be. Let's be honest if KB was profitable it would not be restructuring. Most posters say they go every once in a while. It does not seem to be high on most peoples list. Since 2007 we have been 3 times.

When next year's people come for a lifestyle visit, how are they going to know that Katie Belle's isn't as good as it used to be? Won't they still be impressed with what they find then?

I think the original Katie Belles would have been a perfect fit with the whole concept of Brownwood.
It would blend in well with the old west style they have there.
A Mexican style cantina would be more the style for Spanish springs.
But....it is what it is and I am sure it will be something that will be done well and with style when they are finished.

free movie and 2 rounds of golf at an exec and a championship course

Ours was 4 movie passes, tennis, lunch at Palmer, dinner at KBs, dinner at lighthouse, breakfast. Lobster and steak all around. Golf was 4 rounds at Palmer , Lopez. Still have the pass card with all that was offered. Big difference to what you get now.

Doesn't sound like a great idea to me.

Seems to follow a pattern
 

Reminds me of the day only one week from the close of the Villages Wellness Center, an amenity (though for extra fee) that was a major attraction in my building my home here; an indoor pool and terrace with whirlpool, was worth the extra cost to me. On that day one week before closing the facility, at a time when all Villagers knew it was about to happen, I was on a tred mill as not one but TWO properties of the villages agents walked two groups totaling 8 people in all, through the facility touting what a state of the art facility it was and "selling" hard the fact that no other surrounding retirement development could boast an all weather, indoor pool, with classes and a "lovely restful terrace complete with a whirlpool under palms" ! I turned full face to an employee who heard this regaling of this amenity by the two agents, and her eyes, like mine, knowing full well that both the agents and residents knew their indoor pool was being taken away, due to "insurance" issues I was told (I guess there is no liability insurance on OUTDOOR pools ? ) There seems to be a great many words here designed to obscure the drive for "more money", as opposed to what residents enjoy and would like to see built. Rather than cut KB in half and put it UPSTAIRS (brilliant), I think most residents, even those of us who are not dancers, would like to see MORE THAN ONE residents only club ! In some ways, the Chula vista club was like that when I first bought a lot here, great atmosphere and not like the public restaurant atmosphere of the "country clubs". I suppose we also are getting too many churches, that is why we needed to turn our ONE non-denominational house of worship into a money making, ticket selling, venue. The Indians are certainly not in charge of the reservation judging from what people are saying from the chatting in the coffee shops to talk on the streets. Am I one of those eternally sour folks .....NO WAY, but I do seem to have my full intellectual facilities in tact and I don't like to see what is happening in this community.

First take away the church with its free entertainment, weddings and special,occasions, then take away our "private club"....who do you think you're fooling, family! Throw in thousands more homes till you see nothing but roofs for miles, charge exorbitant rentals for commercial spaces, and you have what USED to be someplace really special and unique. Now one hears many complaints from those who are looking to leave. Traffic and long waits for services have made living here "inconvenient". There are many places smaller with not as many amenities but a more comfortable and less stressful lifestyle.

For two more weeks, agents will be walking prospective buyers through Katie Belle's pointing out that no other retirement community in Florida has a two-story dance hall, restaurant, and entertainment center that looks like it's something from the set of Gunsmoke. KB's will make an impression on a lot of them.

A second-floor, one-story generic restaurant with a stage and small dance floor will not have nearly the impact. I guess management has decided that it doesn't matter for future sales, and the heck with quality of life issues for the residents already here who value it.

I never even knew Katie Belles was a resident amenity when I bought here and in 8 years, I went there once. There are so many other outdoor activities to enjoy and so many bars, I cannot even count them.

For $150 a month, the amenities we receive here are the best in the entire world. I did my share of drinking perhaps more than my share in my early years so I do not continue it here.

Count your blessings. You are one of the fortunate 110,000.

I was in the Brownwood Sales center and looked at the number of closing on that little board the other day. It was more than 40 or 50 in just two days. What other Community in the entire world has amenities built for 110,000 residents while only 75,000 are around to use them for 9 months of the year?

This is the mist well thought out Communuty I have ever witnessed being built. Everything is quality and is done for the sake of the residents. Why not wait until it is finished to see what develops, you will be pleasantly surprised. I am sure of that. Enjoy all the good things here. There are plenty.

Bad idea! TV is losing one of it's entertainment venues to stores?? WHY do we need more stores..I don't want to attract any more outsiders than we have now. Seniors need entertainment,a place to sit down and enjoy conversation,have a meal/drink, and relax. They don't need a place to spend $$$ on 'frills' that you can find at any other store in TV. KB was a unique entertainment venue, with very good daily entertainment. It was special,being a Villager, and using your card to get in, and the environment was special..Now TV 'management' has decided that Villagers don't need this. WE DO. Stop the insanity. Don't give in,,PLEASE!

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, it has been said,and I think something beautiful is being demolished all in an effort to squeeze more $$$ out of us. TV thinks it can make more $$$ with commercial space than restaurants,apparently. I was impressed, initially, with having KB as a 'private' club..and now,,,they will 'squeeze' it upstairs...not good. The Morse family is not ashamed to use it's power ($$$$) to change things. Who did they discuss this with? Did they take a poll of ALL Villagers? I bet not. So, our fees are just paying the freight for 'upgrades' like this, without our input? The Boston Teaparty started over 'taxation without representation'..where was ours when 'they' decided this? And how many more decisions are going to be made,using OUR $$$, without our input?

You have a great grasp of the situation, Ladygolfer93. Villagers should be outraged! I'd like to see if TV still has KB on it's "Lifestyle DVD".. If they do, then it's fraud! And you are right about COS,,,it was a beautiful church! To 'bastardize' it for the sake of having a 'concert' hall' is a grave mistake. We don't need all the extra outside influence added to the congestion that already exists. The prices they will charge will be excessive. I don't need Broadway in TVs,, and neither does anyone else.

The powers that be don't have to discuss it with anyone or take a poll. It's their building to do what they want with. It was always a money loser and they probably have decided they no longer want to spend "their" money to keep it going. They don't need or want anyone's input.

"Fraud" if the building is in the DVD ?? Really?? :ohdear:

I don't believe any amenity fees went toward the operation of Katie Belles. Don't amenity fees go to the CDDs to fund the continued maintenance and expansion of recreation centers and other district infrastructure?

Like I said earlier in this thread, I suspect a major retail outlet that wants a prime spot in the square is driving this project. That's just my speculation. But they certainly weren't afraid to close down Banner Mercantile in favor of the new World of Beer location.

you stated that extremely well......I made that decision about 4 years ago.....when the Villages "life style" changed significantly. Our villages home is used for income, and I am not alone out there.

I'm at a loss regarding your comment about TV's stressful lifestyle. The lifestyle is what YOU make it. If it is stressful to you, it is anything but that for me. My career was stressful, but in many ways positive stress. TV is hardly stressful. Perhaps some relaxation lessons would be of benefit.

The Villages is stressful??....that is too funny!!

Is TV stress factor different, than any other places stress factors? Stress is in one's mind on their outlook of life and their interaction with others. IMHO

At least TV offers so many opportunities to relieve one's stress, with it's myriad of exercise type activities. Drinking helps too!!! :D

sorry no outrage whatsoever, and you certainly don't speak for anyone but yourself!

Different people place different values on community amenities. Other communities have golf courses, activity centers, restaurants, bars, etc. But not one has a Katie Belle's. It is unique and, for a lot of people, it is a source of community pride. Something that sets the Villages apart from all the other retirement communities.

It is being replaced by retail stores and a generic second-floor restaurant. The Villages is losing something significant.

"How many more decisions are going to be made using OUR $$$ without our input?" All of them.

Prospective buyers should be forewarned that what they see here can disappear or change overnight. And as Bonny points out, what you see in the video means nothing. The video TV puts out is not a binding contract.

From a safety perspective, it is unbelievable that any fire marshal or building inspector would approve a second story establishment for 300 people, especially in a retirement community, with reports of nightclub fires and hundreds of people being killed. Assuming the kitchen would be on the top floor makes this an even more dangerous situation.

I'm not sure why Villagers should be outraged. :confused:
Our amenities don't subsidize Katie Belles.
Our amenities didn't subsidize Church on The Square.
It's private enterprise and they have every right to do whatever they want.
Although most residents are sad about the change, in all fairness, most of us rarely went there!

My Thoughts
 

For those of you concerned, KB will still be restricted to residents and guests only. If the residents and their guests stay away, then it will most likely be opened up to all. Many changes have and are being made here often times because of lack of support.

As for the Church on the Square, the same thing. At one time, it was "the only game in town". There were not churches everywhere like now. Are those living south of 466, 466A, and beyond going to come there for any and all their occasions, including to go to church? My guess, is not. I am sure that the newer residents probably don't know or remember how many here clamored for years for a "Performing Arts Center". Well, apparently someone listened so to say they don't listen to what residents want.........

This is all just my 2 cents, but I have seen many changes since buying here in 2003 and moving in in 2004. People will always complain when it comes to change. As for the money aspect, how many here know of anyone, ANYONE, who is in business to not make money? Some of you on here owned your own businesses. Did you go into business just to furnish whatever your product was to give it away or not make a profit? Why should the Morse family be any different?

We all have choices here and there is something for everyone if you want it. We are all free to pick and choose. I don't know of anyone who was forced to come here and I don't know of anyone being forced to stay here. Seems pretty simple to me.

big deal
 

:posting: The few times I have been there, the food was sub-par. Of course, that was during the off season, as I didn't want to wait in the long lines during the snow bird season. I tried to bring visitors to the place but couldn't get in, it was so crowded. If I want to impress visitors now, I take them to one of the many great Club restaurants. It's called Free Enterprise folks. I realize that this concept has become a bit vague in the past few years, but we do live in a free country. Hopefully, the change will be for the better. If not, then it too will become pass'e. The black side of the ledger dictates the business, not the red side or charity. :spoken:

NONE of OUR money is being used at Katie Belles or the "church". And I'm sure the upgrades will include all necessary safety pieces. The new KB's will be no more hazardous than the Cattle Baron is now. In fact i'd wager there will be MORE safety precautions in the remodel.

I wonder how people that own multiple houses and rent them out would like it if the developer dictated what you can charge? Seems much like the question 'they should ask us about KB's & the 'church'!

Wouldn't they be required to install an elevator? Although I don't think they need a requirement to do the right thing. Are there elevators in the Sharon Morse auditorium?

Didn't one of the earlier post says there was an elevator, in KB's?

Katie Belle's
 

This change is not what my wife and I were sold in 2000. It's true, that an owner can do with their property anything they want to do within the law. However, it seems to me that there was an implied condition that The Church on the Square and Katie Belle's were major enticement points in the sales propaganda.

My wife and I are very disappointed that the evenings that we enjoyed on the balconies of the Cattle Baron's Club will be gone. We felt that many of the employees had become like family and we will miss them.

there is already an elevator, I was on it with my wife last week

That Katie Belles isn't very profitable is a real shame. The make believe church was remodeled to into a beautiful theatre. So beautiful it's not as affordable.

I would have thought that Katie Belle's could take over those little concerts that were held in the church for 4 or 5 dollars a pop. Maybe the stage could be elevated? Maybe folding chairs on the dance floor? Maybe a membership would be affordable? When I joined a public course, I played all the time. When I had to pay, I would wait for great weather and friends.

Upstairs, if you are lucky enough to see the show where you sit you could order drinks, apps or desserts with a per person minimum.

I'm just brainstorming.