[rustyp]

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI

I've posted this before and I'll do it again. Community development agencies have done a lot or research into revitalizing down towns in cities and have found that to bring life back to downtown areas you need residents living there. I saw that happen in Nashville, TN when I was working downtown. A developer built a high rise apartment building right on the edge of downtown. Prior to this the majority of businesses there were restaurants and a few small shops that catered to the office workers with a lot of boarded up buildings. After the apartment building was built and occupied, a grocery store opened just a couple block from the apartments. Other businesses opened to cater to the apartment residents. In the downtown entertainment area new businesses opened and existing ones expanded their operations. In the last 8 or so years a lot of new apartment and condo buildings have been built and prior to the covid debacle the downtown scene in Nashville was booming. Without those apartment residents downtown, Nashville would still be a ghost town after 6:00 PM. If you haven't figured it out yet, maybe apartments will revitalize and save SS.

Question for all the community development experts, what are your ideas for the improvement of SS? Please don't even mention Katie Belles, that is a dead horse that has been beaten into a bloody pulp that will not be like the Phoenix and rise from the ashes. It was a failed business plan, get over it.

The office spaces on the second floor of these buildings are setting vacant and producing no revenue yet the owner has to pay property taxes and maintenance. What successful business allows potential revenue generating property to set idle and be a drain on corporate revenue? I'll help out here for those that don't have critical thinking skills, none that are operating in the black.

What proof is there SS downtown needs revitalization ? Let's take a good look around. Every postage stamp of vacant land around SS is being bought up and new businesses being built at breakneck speed. Highways being widened. New developments going up - literally up. Land around SS is so scarce they need to build high rises.
Another hypothesis might be the developer is charging beyond what a Mom and Pop business can afford to pay for rent and MOM and POP still be profitable. Don't forget their model is to minimize most larger corporations/franchises on their domain. No lack of people here from 5 - 9 pm. Lack of two hour happy hours, lack of hard libation for HH, Lack of good restaurants and an abundance of businesses that are not much more than novelty shops.

And the answer is - 7 apartments will save SS from doomsday.

Reviatization from what ? A self inflicted wound. - Bunch of BS.

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

The developers idea of progress is not necessarily the same as people who live near there.

Can't please everyone.
They are pleasing most.

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI

I've posted this before and I'll do it again. Community development agencies have done a lot or research into revitalizing down towns in cities and have found that to bring life back to downtown areas you need residents living there. I saw that happen in Nashville, TN when I was working downtown. A developer built a high rise apartment building right on the edge of downtown. Prior to this the majority of businesses there were restaurants and a few small shops that catered to the office workers with a lot of boarded up buildings. After the apartment building was built and occupied, a grocery store opened just a couple block from the apartments. Other businesses opened to cater to the apartment residents. In the downtown entertainment area new businesses opened and existing ones expanded their operations. In the last 8 or so years a lot of new apartment and condo buildings have been built and prior to the covid debacle the downtown scene in Nashville was booming. Without those apartment residents downtown, Nashville would still be a ghost town after 6:00 PM. If you haven't figured it out yet, maybe apartments will revitalize and save SS.

Question for all the community development experts, what are your ideas for the improvement of SS? Please don't even mention Katie Belles, that is a dead horse that has been beaten into a bloody pulp that will not be like the Phoenix and rise from the ashes. It was a failed business plan, get over it.

The office spaces on the second floor of these buildings are setting vacant and producing no revenue yet the owner has to pay property taxes and maintenance. What successful business allows potential revenue generating property to set idle and be a drain on corporate revenue? I'll help out here for those that don't have critical thinking skills, none that are operating in the black.

Three is a market price for everything. When real estate is vacant for a long period of time it tells me that they are charging more than the market will pay and if they want to rent out the space should lower their asking price.

[Jayhawk]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

7 or 14 apts is not the finale. This is just the tip of the iceberg. What would a couple of hundred apts mean for SS?

It would mean the businesses were unprofitable or poorly managed and ended up closing.

BTW our village sales rep did call the squares an amenity.

Probably not the first or last salesperson to mis-state something

It is amazing to me that when the developer loses some thing they always manage to finesse their way around it and get what they want.

They are good developers. Only bad business people sit on losing assets without trying something better

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by Jayhawk

They are good developers. Only bad business people sit on losing assets without trying something better

The negative nellies don't care about logic.
They jus "don't like it" and have no logical reason to oppose.

Concerned about parking spaces???......pretty small minded.
This will lead to hundreds of apartments???.......the NN's will be dead by then.
We were promised??.......

[mtdjed]

Originally Posted by rustyp

What proof is there SS downtown needs revitalization ? Let's take a good look around. Every postage stamp of vacant land around SS is being bought up and new businesses being built at breakneck speed. Highways being widened. New developments going up - literally up. Land around SS is so scarce they need to build high rises.
Another hypothesis might be the developer is charging beyond what a Mom and Pop business can afford to pay for rent and MOM and POP still be profitable. Don't forget their model is to minimize most larger corporations/franchises on their domain. No lack of people here from 5 - 9 pm. Lack of two hour happy hours, lack of hard libation for HH, Lack of good restaurants and an abundance of businesses that are not much more than novelty shops.

And the answer is - 7 apartments will save SS from doomsday.

Reviatization - BS.

Your first paragraph is about areas outside of Spanish Springs. Very little building occurring in Spanish Springs.
Your opinion and hypothesis is just that - Yours, and you are entitled to it. But the Developer is entitled to their opinion. If they choose to repurpose facilities like they did with the old sales facility (MVP, Restaurant, Car rental), good for them.
How does 7 apartments hurt anything?

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by mtdjed

How does 7 apartments hurt anything?

The sky is falling.

It's the end of the Square.

I was promised it would never happen.

[Number 10 GI]

Originally Posted by rustyp

What proof is there SS downtown needs revitalization ? Let's take a good look around. Every postage stamp of vacant land around SS is being bought up and new businesses being built at breakneck speed. Highways being widened. New developments going up - literally up. Land around SS is so scarce they need to build high rises.
Another hypothesis might be the developer is charging beyond what a Mom and Pop business can afford to pay for rent and MOM and POP still be profitable. Don't forget their model is to minimize most larger corporations/franchises on their domain. No lack of people here from 5 - 9 pm. Lack of two hour happy hours, lack of hard libation for HH, Lack of good restaurants and an abundance of businesses that are not much more than novelty shops.

And the answer is - 7 apartments will save SS from doomsday.

Reviatization from what ? A self inflicted wound. - Bunch of BS.

I never said SS was failing and needed re-vitalizing, just responding to those who claim it is failing and providing information community development experts has found to work.

Think about your statement that the developer charges too much rent. How does any successful business think that is better to lose revenue because their ego tells them the property should rent for more than the market will bear? Does that make any sense? Has the Morse family not been successful?

It probably wasn't a smart idea to build office/retain space on a second floor but even the best developers make errors. I'll go back to my experiences working in downtown Nashville. There is an area called the Arcade, a restaurant/shopping area that is roofed over for weather protection and has a second floor. Most of the space on the second floor was vacant because people didn't want to wait for the elevator or use the stairs.

As far as 14 parking spaces being taken by apartment residents, that is like a 5 gallon bucket of water taken out of one of the retention ponds. As I stated earlier there are plenty of parking spaces within a short walk of the square. Many people could benefit from the exercise.

[Bilyclub]

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI

I never said SS was failing and needed re-vitalizing, just responding to those who claim it is failing and providing information community development experts has found to work.

Think about your statement that the developer charges too much rent. How does any successful business think that is better to lose revenue because their ego tells them the property should rent for more than the market will bear? Does that make any sense? Has the Morse family not been successful?

It probably wasn't a smart idea to build office/retain space on a second floor but even the best developers make errors. I'll go back to my experiences working in downtown Nashville. There is an area called the Arcade, a restaurant/shopping area that is roofed over for weather protection and has a second floor. Most of the space on the second floor was vacant because people didn't want to wait for the elevator or use the stairs.

As far as 14 parking spaces being taken by apartment residents, that is like a 5 gallon bucket of water taken out of one of the retention ponds. As I stated earlier there are plenty of parking spaces within a short walk of the square. Many people could benefit from the exercise.

14 parking spots on a public street located next to the square. That is a big difference.

[rustyp]

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI

I never said SS was failing and needed re-vitalizing, just responding to those who claim it is failing and providing information community development experts has found to work.

Think about your statement that the developer charges too much rent. How does any successful business think that is better to lose revenue because their ego tells them the property should rent for more than the market will bear? Does that make any sense? Has the Morse family not been successful?

It probably wasn't a smart idea to build office/retain space on a second floor but even the best developers make errors. I'll go back to my experiences working in downtown Nashville. There is an area called the Arcade, a restaurant/shopping area that is roofed over for weather protection and has a second floor. Most of the space on the second floor was vacant because people didn't want to wait for the elevator or use the stairs.

As far as 14 parking spaces being taken by apartment residents, that is like a 5 gallon bucket of water taken out of one of the retention ponds. As I stated earlier there are plenty of parking spaces within a short walk of the square. Many people could benefit from the exercise.

Never once have I seen a statement from the developers that they were operating SS in the red. The only source I've heard that statement from is the sheeples who for the most part are still in the new home honeymoon period (and just for grins never stepped foot into the original Katie Belle's - Harold's flagship and his mother's namesake). Before you jump to the next comeback what I did not say is "the developers don't have a right to go onto other ventures that will produce higher profit margins". However those ventures are limited to being within the law which includes zoning. I have no issue with the developer requesting "legally" a variance. The declaration of it's their property and they can do as they wish is a total misnomer and neither can anyone of us do as we wish with our properties. I am not saying bibery, blackmail, backroom deals are taking place but something smells fishy to me about the sequence of events that have unfolded.

All I ask is for my representatives (public and private) to stop telling me the yellow liquid on my sneakers is simply a little bit of rain. I really don't care if the developer puts up 7 apartments. Just stop feeding me BS.

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by rustyp

Never once have I seen a statement from the developers that they were operating SS in the red. The only source I've heard that statement from is the sheeples who for the most part are still in the new home honeymoon period (and just for grins never stepped foot into the original Katie Belle's - Harold's flagship and his mother's namesake). Before you jump to the next comeback what I did not say is "the developers don't have a right to go onto other ventures that will produce higher profit margins". However those ventures are limited to being within the law which includes zoning. I have no issue with the developer requesting "legally" a variance. The declaration of it's their property and they can do as they wish is a total misnomer and neither can anyone of us do as we wish with our properties. I am not saying bibery, blackmail, backroom deals are taking place but something smells fishy to me about the sequence of events that have unfolded.

What the developer wants the developer finds a way to get.

[rustyp]

///

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Someone asked what we think should happen, to "revitalize" Spanish Springs Town Square.

As the newish resident living in the oldest section of the Villages, who's lived in metropolitan areas, the suburbs of New England, and been to every contiguous state in the country, in urban, rural, suburban, and mountainous regions, who has worked for a town engineer and worked on zoning restrictions and issued zoning permits, this is what I think should be done:

(The same as what I proposed previously but here it is again):

The MVP gym moved to the Rialto theatre, with shops in the front of it dedicated to fresh, healthy food options - salads, simple sandwiches made with home-made breads and organic ingredients, plenty of raw foods that don't require cooking, a few comfort dessert options (such as fresh apple pie, or assorted tortes or strawberry topped shortbread, for example). Another shop within the Rialto-converted-MVP building could cater to exercise clothing and accessories - leggings, gym tops and shorts, yoga mats and yoga shoes, fitbits, etc.

Then take the MVP building and turn it into either condos or apartments, or a mixture of both, with amenities taking up the entire first floor. A small pool can be built where the circular drive currently is, out back, and the pool and first-floor amenities can then be considered a Town Square Rec Center. The parking area behind that building could be gated, so that residents have assigned parking off the street and away from easy access to theft.

Once that building has been renovated and vacancies filled, THEN add that 7 apartments over the old Katie Belle's building. And behind that building, section off an area for assigned resident parking, and build a modest-sized carport for resident golf carts. They can have access to the amenities in the MVP building as well.

[dewilson58]

This thread gets funnier and funnier.

[JSR22]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

This thread gets funnier and funnier.

I agree. Writing a business plan for the developer! LOL