[Leafpoker]

As I say , all this could rock the villages. It would be interesting to see if you sell and put no on the selling form, then the judgement comes down, and the buyer comes back on the seller to pay his huge portion to settle this up. For his time he lived in the home. Another reason for them to push new homes. For the lawyers in this area this will like shooting fish in a barrel. Or even shooting moose out of season. (we know that doesn't happen, just the govt messing with people) NOT!

[The Shadow]

Originally Posted by Russ_Boston

You did? Sorry, I still don't see special CDD in your quote.

I'm a little slow today could you highlight where you said that in the piece I quoted from you?

My point is that the property in question on the IRS issue is the special CDD's not our property. That sellers' form is about the property in question. No?

Did you read post 33?

[The Shadow]

Originally Posted by Leafpoker

As I say , all this could rock the villages. It would be interesting to see if you sell and put no on the selling form, then the judgement comes down, and the buyer comes back on the seller to pay his huge portion to settle this up. For his time he lived in the home. Another reason for them to push new homes. For the lawyers in this area this will like shooting fish in a barrel. Or even shooting moose out of season. (we know that doesn't happen, just the govt messing with people) NOT!

It was elk, I am a moose.

[aljetmet]

How do you stop tax free bonds? Redeem them, buy them back, with what money?

Answer: Wouldn't it be from the collection of (increased) amenity fees?

[Russ_Boston]

Originally Posted by The Shadow

Did you read post 33?

OK. I was responding to the post I quoted but I get it.

Still not sure how the residents of TV would be responsible for any monetary fines though. If bonds were sold of the districts that we don't own or live in then how could we be to blame? Wouldn't it just be either the developer (issuer of the bonds) or the bond buyers who would sue the developer since their yield isn't tax free any longer?

Does anyone who has some experience with bonds have an opinion?

[rubicon]

Originally Posted by The Shadow

Has the IRS asked the Developer for any kind of a settlement? NO!

Has the IRS asked any resident for any kind of a settlement? NO!

Do you think one day the IRS is going to show up at the resident’s door and say this is an IRS give me $10,000. I don’t think so.

For three years the IRS has had one target, Team Tutt AKA VCDD. What does the IRS want? Money what they always want and a stop to tax free bonds.

And when the IRS offender does not have the money to pay the IRS what happens then? The IRS says we will then take your property and auction it off to settle your debt. That property is the property that the VCDD allegedly wrongfully sold tax free bonds to purchase from the developer at an allegedly high price.

How do you stop tax free bonds? Redeem them, buy them back, with what money?

Team Tutt/aka the VCCDD is us. We personally had no part or even knowledhe of the business transactions that occurred between the Seller and the Buyer. However, the buyer is our government and they represent us and used all fees, taxes amenities that flow to them for this purchase. If those funds are not available to the VCCDD and the IRS rules against the VCCDD and not the Developer what happens??????

Frankly based on the IRS filings I believe the IRS is more interested in the Developer for a number of reasons.

Peerhaps the nature of the Development district is as the Developer claims? I hope so and believe the Developer has a strong and correct argument given Florida Law. There are a few issues that rub the IRS the wrong way and that is why I believe they are pursuing this issue.

I am interested in thus issue but I am not losing any sleep over it

[Russ_Boston]

OK I see the connection. Thanks.

[rubicon]

Originally Posted by The Shadow

If you or I sell a house in Florida we will have to fill out a form called “Seller’s Real Property Disclosure Statement” . Questions like question #1a. Are you aware of existing, pending, or proposed legal actions, claims, special assessments, ……..affecting the property. If yes explain……

In my thinking if I sell my house in TV and I do not answer #1a. with IRS, grounds would exist for a civil suit against me for damages. Note I am not a lawyer.

If anything changes on this form you must inform your buyer of the change in 5 days.

If I am obligate to provide this information TV should also.

Shadow good information. This action began in the first quarter of 2009. It is now second quarter 2011. Don't know that the housing documents added this disclosure? I suspect with the number of closing documents, if the disclourse is included many buyers may have glossed right over it?

One point here is that whatever the IRS does here they will need to apply in every other CDD in the state of Florida

[3puttharry]

A couple of post refer to "bonds that WERE sold" as in past tense.
A few question come to mind.
1. As each subsequent group of villages/districts have been built and amenities sold have similar tax free bonds also been sold?
2. If not are the districts were these bonds were sold identified?
3. If the districts are identified, again pardon my ignorance, but what villages are in these districts? Do different districts fall under differnt VCCD type names? I thought I read about another name but not VCCD?
4.Not sure but it seems like each district may have different rules and laws especially seeing they are in three different counties. If the VCCD loses can d they have the authority to decide that all villages pay? Even the original ones that some hv no amenity fee?
5.Are or were these tax free bonds available for purchase to the public through brokerage companies?
6. How about the 7% bonds on new houses (I realize this is a different bond) Can anyone buy these too? Great deal, guaranteed 7% when the rest of the public US muni bonds are a questionable investment now (IMO).
7.I read here that part of the IRS problem is the appraisal of specific facilities and the possible inflated price paid by the VCCD. Are subsequent appraisals of new district facilites in the same ballpark? If so does that mean this issue that started years ago is going to expand to all new and future vilages/districts?
8. A previous poster said this IRS issue with the villages will affect hundreds of other plus 55 florida communities. I hope he is right but I would venture to say that no other plus 55 community in Florida and perhaps United States has and is continuing to grow like the villages. Which I guess means a lot more bonds here than anywere else.
Sorry for the long post and am seriously sorry for my laziness to those of you who suggest I search the many years of previous posts to look for my answers. Retired but still have type A behavior
Still looking forward to living in The Villages....I am closing on a new house in four weeks.

[ilovetv]

Originally Posted by The Shadow

If you or I sell a house in Florida we will have to fill out a form called “Seller’s Real Property Disclosure Statement” . Questions like question #1a. Are you aware of existing, pending, or proposed legal actions, claims, special assessments, ……..affecting the property. If yes explain……

In my thinking if I sell my house in TV and I do not answer #1a. with IRS, grounds would exist for a civil suit against me for damages. Note I am not a lawyer.

If anything changes on this form you must inform your buyer of the change in 5 days.

If I am obligate to provide this information TV should also.

Does The Villages answer "yes" to that disclosure statement question when selling a new home since these IRS inquiries began?

I doubt it, and therefore don't see how homeowners would be held responsible for the tax if IRS "wins" and goes after it.

[Ohiogirl]

As a former real estate agent in Ohio (not in Florida) which has similar seller disclosure forms, I would have to say that new homes probably do not require this form. And it is not a form required at closing (with all the others), but prior to writing the purchase offer.

And since it is not specific to the individual property itself, I doubt if this is being disclosed when selling a resale home in Florida. I believe the IRS investigation is just that - an investigation - at this time, not a pending legal action.

[Russ_Boston]

Originally Posted by 3puttharry

A couple of post refer to "bonds that WERE sold" as in past tense.
A few question come to mind.
1. As each subsequent group of villages/districts have been built and amenities sold have similar tax free bonds also been sold?
2. If not are the districts were these bonds were sold identified?
3. If the districts are identified, again pardon my ignorance, but what villages are in these districts? Do different districts fall under differnt VCCD type names? I thought I read about another name but not VCCD?
4.Not sure but it seems like each district may have different rules and laws especially seeing they are in three different counties. If the VCCD loses can d they have the authority to decide that all villages pay? Even the original ones that some hv no amenity fee?
5.Are or were these tax free bonds available for purchase to the public through brokerage companies?
6. How about the 7% bonds on new houses (I realize this is a different bond) Can anyone buy these too? Great deal, guaranteed 7% when the rest of the public US muni bonds are a questionable investment now (IMO).
7.I read here that part of the IRS problem is the appraisal of specific facilities and the possible inflated price paid by the VCCD. Are subsequent appraisals of new district facilites in the same ballpark? If so does that mean this issue that started years ago is going to expand to all new and future vilages/districts?
8. A previous poster said this IRS issue with the villages will affect hundreds of other plus 55 florida communities. I hope he is right but I would venture to say that no other plus 55 community in Florida and perhaps United States has and is continuing to grow like the villages. Which I guess means a lot more bonds here than anywere else.
Sorry for the long post and am seriously sorry for my laziness to those of you who suggest I search the many years of previous posts to look for my answers. Retired but still have type A behavior
Still looking forward to living in The Villages....I am closing on a new house in four weeks.

I can't answer all the questions but the tax free bonds in question are the ones for the special CDD districts. Not the basic districts that all the homes are in.

[NJblue]

Originally Posted by 3puttharry

A couple of post refer to "bonds that WERE sold" as in past tense.
A few question come to mind.
1. As each subsequent group of villages/districts have been built and amenities sold have similar tax free bonds also been sold?
2. If not are the districts were these bonds were sold identified?
3. If the districts are identified, again pardon my ignorance, but what villages are in these districts? Do different districts fall under differnt VCCD type names? I thought I read about another name but not VCCD?
4.Not sure but it seems like each district may have different rules and laws especially seeing they are in three different counties. If the VCCD loses can d they have the authority to decide that all villages pay? Even the original ones that some hv no amenity fee?
5.Are or were these tax free bonds available for purchase to the public through brokerage companies?
6. How about the 7% bonds on new houses (I realize this is a different bond) Can anyone buy these too? Great deal, guaranteed 7% when the rest of the public US muni bonds are a questionable investment now (IMO).
7.I read here that part of the IRS problem is the appraisal of specific facilities and the possible inflated price paid by the VCCD. Are subsequent appraisals of new district facilites in the same ballpark? If so does that mean this issue that started years ago is going to expand to all new and future vilages/districts?
8. A previous poster said this IRS issue with the villages will affect hundreds of other plus 55 florida communities. I hope he is right but I would venture to say that no other plus 55 community in Florida and perhaps United States has and is continuing to grow like the villages. Which I guess means a lot more bonds here than anywere else.
Sorry for the long post and am seriously sorry for my laziness to those of you who suggest I search the many years of previous posts to look for my answers. Retired but still have type A behavior
Still looking forward to living in The Villages....I am closing on a new house in four weeks.

As of two years ago, which roughly corresponds with the date of the IRS case, the only bonds that were sold for amenities, with only a few exceptions, involved the amenities north of 466. I have not heard of any subsequent sales of bonds or purchase of amenities by the CDD (that's not to say that this has not happened, however). My guess is that they are holding off on any future transfers until this issue is resolved.

[collie1228]

In the last section of the Wikipedia entry on The Villages, there is a good summary of the IRS situation, which is footnoted with links for anyone who wants the detailed information. This is the best summary I've seen yet, and it's simple enough that even I can comprehend it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Villages,_FL

[The Shadow]

Originally Posted by rubicon

Shadow good information. This action began in the first quarter of 2009. It is now second quarter 2011. Don't know that the housing documents added this disclosure? I suspect with the number of closing documents, if the disclourse is included many buyers may have glossed right over it?

One point here is that whatever the IRS does here they will need to apply in every other CDD in the state of Florida

I disagree, it depends on the way the CDD is structured. Example the IRS says to issue tax free bonds among other things the CDD must have a police department and the government must be at arms length from the developer. If the CDD has no police department the CDD is free to issue interest taxable bonds.