Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia.

The email system is not so bad—mostly.

It has been said already, email is public record. I called the district, asked for a copy of all complaints over a period in my village. I received copies of emails and letters.

Bottom line, if you wish to remain anonymous, don’t give your name in any form.

If anyone wants more information on the Pinellas neighborhood in question they could attend the next District #9 meeting on February 14 at 1:30 PM at the District Administration office on 984 Old Mill Run, The Villages. Phone 352-751-3939. I think fair minded VillageTinker would be a good representative to have at that meeting, if he so wished.

The Duration clause of our our deed covenants say they remain in force until Jan. 2042 and that time are automatically renewed unless the developer decides otherwise. I don't see anything about a vote to change or who would be able to vote if there was a vote.

Also the developer has the right to amend the covenants. It looks like the developer did that to our covenants after we bought our house.

A quick look at covenants for other subdivisions in our area appear to be about the same.



"Duration

The covenants and restrictions of this Declaration shall run with and bind the land, and shall inure to the benefit of and be enforceable by the Developer, or any Owner until the first day of January 2042 (except as elsewhere herein expressly provided otherwise). After the first day of January 2042, said covenants, restrictions, reservations and servitudes shall be automatically extended for successive periods of ten (10) years unless an instrument signed by the Developer or his assignee shall be recorded, which instrument shall alter, amend, enlarge, extend or repeal, in whole or in part, said covenants, restrictions, reservations and servitude. "

Amendments

The Developer shall have the right to amend the Covenants and Restrictions of this Declaration from time to time by duly recording an instrument executed and acknowledged by the Developer in the public records of the county where the Subdivision is located. "

All, I would like to attend, but I have a prior commitment, so in my absence I offer the following:

First the deed restrictions would remain INTACT, but the IMPLEMENTATION of the complaint system would be changed. Here is my suggestion:

Suggested new annonomous complaint procedure.

1. Anyone desiring to file complaint would be required to get a form from Community Standards (either online or at the office). Community Standards will design the form. Phoned in complaints will no longer be accepted.

2. The complainer would fill out the form, which would include the nature of the complaint, the location of the infraction, and whether it is a serious infraction. Serious infractions would involve, buildings, water flow/drainage, infraction of build lines, permits, etc. Minor infractions would typically be signs, lawn ornaments etc.

3. One (1) complaint per form.

4. The completed form would need to presented in person, with complainer’s village photo ID to the VCDD. The reason for this is that going forward, only people living in the same village would be allowed to file complaints in that village.

5. There will be a charge to be paid for each complaint filed, cash only. The charge could start at say $10 per complaint, and be adjusted as necessary to limit “troll” activity. To maintain anonymity, there will be NO receipts or records of the payment.

6. If the review board finds the complaint to be valid, then the existing procedures will be used to get the property into compliance.

IMHO, I think this approach addresses many if not all of the 'problems' with the existing system. I had actually contacted Community Standards previously with something similar, but it was shot down, the suggestion above was modified to eliminate that concern.

PLEASE DO NOT SHOOT THE MESSENGER...........
:popcorn::popcorn:

You have thought of a great idea, but I doubt if things will be changed. I would not be hesitant to do that. I have every reason to believe that there would still be anonymity.

This is the problem in a nutshell. Some folks have been raised to speak up and speak out and are used to such interchanges and others have been raised to not confront someone with a transgression. It is simply how we were raised, what our parents did and what they expected of us. One thinks the other a wimp and the other thinks the one is crassly outspoken.

While I personally couldn't imagine the boredom and/or pettiness it takes to drive around the entire bubble looking for covenant/deed violations, I totally disagree with this sentiment...as well as the requirement to identify yourself or pay a "filing fee."

Law enforcement acts on anonymous tips all of the time, why would anyone think that just because we live in The Villages...we should be that 'special and/or entitled?' :oops:

IMHO, that kind of action simply nourishes the already unfair stereotype...that a lot of locals have about all of us. :ohdear:

Bottom line, either don't violate the rules, or if you do and get caught, don't whine about it...just stand up and take your medicine. :shrug:

Accurate and succinct...I like it. :thumbup:

Some excellent points! I think we will have to find someone else to make that meeting. We probably would want to canvass other neighbors and determine what they would like to see brought forward to VCDD. I know that there are concerned persons in the neighborhood who are upset with the implementation and extensive scope of this issue as it affected our small neighborhood in the Village of Pinellas. Judging by the demeanor of the VCDD people who came around to our homes I don’t think VCDD was in favor of the abuse of the complaint system when over 35 homes were affected. Who knows, maybe something will come from our discussions with VCDD. It certainly is within our rights to attend this meeting and make our concerns known. The Villages has a system in place for Villagers to attend these meetings and to utilize this democratic process.

None of thee points would survive the first court challenge.

Challenger, do you believe the "one complaint per form" idea would not survive a legal challenge? I like that idea, as it would take a lot more work for the troll-type people who run around in a golf cart with a notepad and a desire to cause trouble.


I favor the deed restrictions totally. People should just follow what they agreed to, and we'd have no problems. As well, I'm all for the anonymous complaint system if TV is not going to police its own rules. But from time to time it does get out of hand.

Maybe that one would , although , those challenging the rule would attack it as merely a method to deter people from exercising their right to report on what, in their opinion, might be a violation. Any procedure installed would need to be reasonable.

Wonder what would happen if someone placed a Buddha in their front yard (as opposed to a cross)???

It might depend on the neighborhood. I know one where it might be accepted...

People should follow what they agreed to, yes. But not everyone does. The enforcement is not done evenly, and is complaint-driven, rather than pro-active. This results in people moving in, seeing that three neighbors on one side of their home, one on the other, and two across the street ALL have "x ornament" on their front lawn. They think it's a pretty nifty ornament, and figure - well these people have lived here for years and no one's made them move these ornaments - so obviously this rule is not enforced.

And they would be 100% correct. If you're going to have a rule, it needs to a) be enforceable and b) be enforced. If you're going to ignore either a or b then just ditch the rule. Come up with a different way of maintaining the overall look of the community.

Or invite the neighbors in the community to meet and discuss this rule, and see if they might want to adjust it for the current generation of residents.

In 1936, the speed limit anywhere in Utah was 35MPH. Anyone who moved there agreed to follow that law. Fast forward to 2019, and the speed limit is no longer 35MPH maximum in the entire state of Utah. Why? Because things changed. People and society evolved. Technology improved, safety precautions were invented.

Just because you agreed to a rule 20 or 30 years ago, doesn't mean it's a rule worth having today. That is why they have meetings and votes.

[QUOTE=Mikeod;1622819]Here’s another view of the problem. Let’s say your neighborhood either likes or tolerates a yard feature that violates the deed restrictions. Someone from a different neighborhood drives in to visit or maybe just looking at landscaping ideas (very common IMO) and sees the feature. They assume it’s OK, since it’s still there. So they go ahead and put something similar in their yard. Repeat this many times per day, week, month and the problem is epidemic.

There are many residents who accepted the deed restrictions although it meant altering their desires for home and yard decor. But they accepted these restrictions to safeguard their property value and keep the community beautiful. I would ask those who think it’s fine to ignore the restrictions on lawn ornaments what other deed restrictions we can ignore and what ones should be rigidly enforced. The answers to those questions would reveal the chaos that would ensue.[/QUOTE

//////

You're talking about a state vs a developer-owned community.


To me it wouldn't matter if everyone around me is not following the rules. I agreed to them and I will follow them, because I think the rules are worthwhile. Those flaunting the rules are taking their chances. I hope they will be brought into compliance.



If something looked very bad and threatened the value of the community, I would file a complaint. But I also wish the developer family would step up and enforce its own rules. I think they don't want to spend the money, and that's too bad.

We have no deed restrictions challenged in our entire village. The new areas it is more widespread, as they have not been turned over to the CDD yet. AND....TheY do not have "meetings and votes". This is a CDD form of government. This is a government run by the developer and we voted on it when we bought our homes. This place is not like any place any of us lived before. No one can come here and change things. Sometimes they act on suggestions, and I think they have thought things out well, but it would be chaos and financially unfeasible for everyone to have a say in this or that. Some want not only heated pools but cooled pools in the summer. Some want lockers at the sports pools. Some want indoor pools and more dog parks and more softball fields and more pickleball courts. Some want ways to identify golf carts so they can be policed better. Some want real gates, which means we would undertake the financial burden of the streets.Some want separate walking paths from the cart paths. Some want someone watching to see that no one saves seats and some want a parking patrol. In no time if everyone got what she/he wanted the price to live here would go sky high. As it is now, it is affordable for most people and we have many different levels of earnings here. I like it like it is and it really runs well the way it is.

Some things could be made better/safer/more convenient for very little money. I think Harold would have a slightly different approach than the kids.

[QUOTE=patfla06;1623538][QUOTE=Mikeod;1622819]Here’s another view of the problem. Let’s say your neighborhood either likes or tolerates a yard feature that violates the deed restrictions. Someone from a different neighborhood drives in to visit or maybe just looking at landscaping ideas (very common IMO) and sees the feature. They assume it’s OK, since it’s still there. So they go ahead and put something similar in their yard. Repeat this many times per day, week, month and the problem is epidemic.

There are many residents who accepted the deed restrictions although it meant altering their desires for home and yard decor. But they accepted these restrictions to safeguard their property value and keep the community beautiful. I would ask those who think it’s fine to ignore the restrictions on lawn ornaments what other deed restrictions we can ignore and what ones should be rigidly enforced. The answers to those questions would reveal the chaos that would ensue.


:coolsmiley: I asked that 5 days ago in post #88...... still waiting for an answer. :popcorn:

[QUOTE=CWGUY;1623567][QUOTE=patfla06;1623538][QUOTE=Mikeod;1622819]Here’s another view of the problem. Let’s say your neighborhood either likes or tolerates a yard feature that violates the deed restrictions. Someone from a different neighborhood drives in to visit or maybe just looking at landscaping ideas (very common IMO) and sees the feature. They assume it’s OK, since it’s still there. So they go ahead and put something similar in their yard. Repeat this many times per day, week, month and the problem is epidemic.

There are many residents who accepted the deed restrictions although it meant altering their desires for home and yard decor. But they accepted these restrictions to safeguard their property value and keep the community beautiful. I would ask those who think it’s fine to ignore the restrictions on lawn ornaments what other deed restrictions we can ignore and what ones should be rigidly enforced. The answers to those questions would reveal the chaos that would ensue.


:coolsmiley: I asked that 5 days ago in post #88...... still waiting for an answer. :popcorn:[/QUOTE

Bingo!!!!

Simple question with a simple answer - You can ignore all of the deed restrictions.

Of course, if there is a complaint lodged against you, you will probably have to rectify the situation or you will be forced to leave TV.

OMG no one can force you to leave the villages they don't have that power.
Please lets not over reach.

Would like to know where you got this information. In 16 years I have never heard of someone being evicted for deed violations. Or anyone forced to leave TV.

Although I like the way the VillageTinker tinks, and don't like trolls(or busy body people myself), I don't think a fee would be appropriate, I also tink that there's a difference between a simple gnome on a front yard, and thirteen pink flamingos? Like Gracie, and many others, I adore the beauty of this community, and want it to stay that way. But, I also love the "Friendliest Village" slogan, and see it every day. And I want to keep it that way, by not feeling we have to go around trolling streets and neighborhoods, to find everything that may be a violation, and upsetting people? Enough said.

Nonsense

I want to make some clarifications.

The changes I proposed are in the INITIATION of a complaint, as far as I know this is entirely under the control of COMMUNITY STANDARDS, not the individual CDDs etc. All complaints currently go typically by phone to the Community Standards office, and community standards then investigates these complaints.

The charge for registering a complaint and the need to personally present the complaint are aimed to limit overuse of the system by what is commonly referred to as "trolls", and was modified to maintain anonymity.

I do not think IMHO) there would be a legal challenge, as the current system is just the way it is currently being done, and this would be a change in the way it is being done. I do not recall seeing any paperwork that made the existing system of registering a complaint legally binding. As a matter of fact you can file by email, by letter, or in person now, BUT the Community Standards usually suggests not doing this as ALL of these records are public under Florida Law, a walk in verbal complaint, or form with on personal information would still maintain anonymity.

I have not had a chance to investigate when Community Standards meets or how to have the ideas I presented here formally presented for CS to look at.

Just my thoughts.

Can't wait for the headline.

Thousands evicted from The Villages. Now have no Gnome to go to!

OK, for those who disagree with my point of view, here is a question:

What would happen to a person who refuses to follow a deed restriction?

For example, what happens to a person who refuses to remove an offensive lawn ornament?

Here's my answer..... Anyone who lives here SHOULD know the answer already! If you don't they hold classes for people to learn the way the Villages works. :ho:

OK, so what is the answer that "Anyone who lives here SHOULD know"?

:clap2: VCDD Community Standards

Do you know what District you live in? Didn't you read all this before buying?

I found the answer in about 2 minutes. The Village Community Development Districts site has a lot of information, try it sometime.

What happens if an owner does not bring their property into compliance? There could be up to three notifications with the final notification advising a public hearing date for the case to be heard before the Board of Supervisors for that District. The Board of Supervisors make the final enforcement decision on whether there is a finding of guilt against the owner. If the owner is found in violation of the District’s adopted Rule, the Board of Supervisors may impose fines, seek all available legal remedies which may include initiating a lawsuit, seeking an injunction against the owner and placing a lien against the property. Please refer to The resource cannot be found. to view each District’s adopted Rule.

Thanks for finding the punishment that may be inflicted on an owner with an offensive lawn ornament.

After all of those actions are taken, what do you think will happen if the owner still refuses to remove the offending lawn ornament?

In my opinion, the phrase "legal remedies" may including seizing the home and evicting the owner.

TOTV ithe place of opinions.
As to your question of what happens, call deed compliance.....if you reall must know!

CWGUY: the answer to your question is simple: you can ignore any and all rules and regulations that are not enforced. If a tree falls in the forest, does the forest ranger really give a damn? If he doesn't - then go ahead and chop down the tree.

You'll have to live with your own conscience knowing that you violated the rules. You'll also have to live with the potential for other people to discover that they too can chop down trees without consequence, and eventually waking up one morning to realize the forest is now a vast desert wasteland with no trees left.

On the other hand...

You could ask the park ranger if you may have permission to make an exception.

Or you could go to a town meeting, with other people who live near or in the forest, and see if they can make a new rule, that can actually be enforced: you can chop down no more than 2 trees per year, you can get a permit for it, and you have to remove the wood from where it fell. Rangers will be in the area to either supervise or observe, in case of emergency on the scheduled date of chopping.

Said the people that live in Bridgeport at Lake Miona ! :1rotfl:

:icon_wink: Sorry....inside joke for people that live here.

They won't evict someone from their own property. They'd have to go through a whole different process for that.

What they can do is put a lien on the property so when you are ready to sell it (or if your beneficiaries try to sell it after you're dead), the Villages district will get first dibs on the amount of the lien, before the seller (you or beneficiaries or the bank) can touch it.

I believe there is a fine of up to $50 for each day of the infraction. I also believe I read there was a maximum fine, and something happened after that (probably the lien) but I can't remember what exactly that was.

That was in just one of the deed restriction pages I read, in one section of the Villages in Lake County, and I think that particular page was dated some time in 1998.

I suspect that having to show your ID to an authority would then make them responsible for recording it which now gets back to the loss of animosity law. I am not going to put the effort into researching that angle. I read the covenants and understood them and agreed to abide by them. I also don't understand the love affair of having a lawn ornament. Decorate the inside of your house. Take my word if you win on lawn ornaments fences will be next.

May I also suggest that the developer has tuned the system exactly they way they want it. They can not be the bad guy in a violation but still have a vehicle to enforce the rules if and when they wish. Best of all worlds for them.

Touche:MOJE_whot:

Current system is fine. Follow the rules.