[IADCathy]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

It does not have to be EVERY class. I believe ADA requires it only for those individuals who are disabled due to hearing loss and are fluent in ASL. Then the interpreter has to be provided upon request. So we are only talking those classes that these 32 or so individuals take AND request an interpreter, NOT all classes. Simply having a hearing aid or trouble hearing is NOT the criteria.

Too simple a solution for Louis.... we all have to understand that this was about money. The DAMAGES part of the lawsuit tells it all. He hasn't finished with us yet. Stay tuned. The man's identity is wrapped into his crusade.

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by billethkid

As the saying goes there just has to be more to the story than is currently available.
Too many options that could have come forth from the majority of interested residents were not entertained, before concluding closure to be the best solution.
I was of the opinion that the good of the residents was a priority......not the will of a few lawyered up complaintents.
The powers that be in TV know well what the reaction of the residents would be, hence there must be more to the reason for the conclusion than is being made available to the public.

Originally Posted by Advogado

Let's be practical.
Unless the Developer immediately changes course, before the infrastructure of the LLLC is dismantled, the LLLC is permanently closed and, as a practical matter, no substitute will ever be established. Therefore, I would appeal to the plaintiffs, many of whom are undoubtedly following this thread:
Please recognize the immense harm that your lawsuit has done to our community. Instruct your law firm to immediately contact the Developer and make one last effort to work out a settlement that would both address your reasonable objectives and result in the LLLC's remaining open.

[Putt4Dough]

ABOUT LOUIS (Facebook page)

I touched so many people with one gesture, and I want the world to know I still stand for deaf rights. I still stand for everyone who cannot. They will understand our rights eventually.

[dillywho]

I just reread yesterday's article. According to it, Mr. McDaniel was quoted as saying that ...."going back for almost eight years, we've tried to offer reasonable accommodations to these folks, including hearing interpreters and assisted hearing devices for any class they wished to attend. No matter what we offered to meet their special needs, it was never enough."

The suit was filed three years ago, not eight. Maybe it is just now being brought to everyone because of the decision to close. It could be that, instead of trying to "conceal" something, it was hoped that the matter could be resolved to the satisfaction of all. Apparently, the outcome has turned out to be just the opposite.

All in all, such a shame. If what he said is true about the last almost eight years, then it was truly not the lack of accommodation, but something else. I cannot for the life of me, understand why those 32 involved cannot do some accommodating, as well.

[JGVillages]

Originally Posted by Emmakrock@yahoo.com

I have a question so if you lost your legs would you sue the villages because you can't golf?

Should the Golf Division be required to supply spotters in a foresom with a hearing impaired player since they cannot hear someone yelling fore. Should The Recreation Department be required to supply knee braces to tennis & pickleball players with knee replacements so they can have a better playing experience. Sounds a bit ridiculous but where does it end? How about we get personal responsibility back in the forefront, and for those few that cannot help themselves we then have help available for them. Only a very selfish, or possibly greedy person, would sacrifice enjoyment to 18000 for their personal gratification.

[Carla B]

Dillywho, according to the court documents (see DuhBear's post) beginning in 2008 Louis Schwarz requested that the District (VCCDD and SLCCD) provide sign language interpreters for Resident Lifestyle Group activities. I don't know how he requested this. But yes, this has been going on for eight years.

[Advogado]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

It does not have to be EVERY class. I believe ADA requires it only for those individuals who are disabled due to hearing loss and are fluent in ASL. Then the interpreter has to be provided upon request. So we are only talking those classes that these 32 or so individuals take AND request an interpreter, NOT all classes. Simply having a hearing aid or trouble hearing is NOT the criteria.

Please educate me. I thought that the ADA requires "reasonable" accommodation. Expecting a school providing adult ed classes to pay for an interpreter at $50/hr. so a deaf person can attend a class with only 12 or so paying students is not a reasonable accommodation. It is financially unsustainable.

Also, I find the plaintiffs' suit against the resident clubs, which, by the way, got thrown out on summary judgment, to have been highly irresponsible and a real slap in the face to other residents of The Villages.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Advogado

Please educate me. I thought that the ADA requires "reasonable" accommodation. Expecting a school providing adult ed classes to pay for an interpreter at $50/hr. so a deaf person can attend a class with only 12 or so paying students is not a reasonable accommodation. It is financially unsustainable.

Also, I find the plaintiffs' suit against the resident clubs, which, by the way, got thrown out on summary judgment, to have been highly irresponsible and a real slap in the face to other residents of The Villages.

That's easy. The federal government, backed by the courts, has generally decided that an ASL interpreter is reasonable. I feel that if they feel it is so reasonable, that they pay for it, but then again, they IS us. See my earlier post about losing about $150 per visit for a hearing impaired patient---was that "reasonable"? Unfortunately, the courts say yes.
Is it reasonable to change the existing restroom infrastructure for the 0.01% transgender citizens? Is it reasonable for Calif. to hand out drivers licenses to illegal aliens, and then accept a drivers license as proof of citizenship to vote? A lot of "reason" has gone out the window in recent years

[Erijo]

As I read through all the posts, I came away with the feeling of "if I can't have this, no one can!" Shame on the few who started this suit. Did it accomplish what you wanted? Instead of accommodating your disability, you took away any chance of that. In fact you "punished" every Villager who went to the LLC or planned to, not to mention all the teachers who lose income, and children who lose the opportunity to a better education. Your plea that no one hold it against you will fall on "deaf ears" (if you will). You and your group have caused such heartache, anger, frustration and hard feelings. With that being said, I hope you're happy with yourselves and the outcome of these actions. In my humble opinion, Villagers are so generous and so happy to help. I think a better solution could have been found if you had just asked.

[thblanch]

So as a community, how do we fix this? Giving in to me is not an option. Any retirees with legal expertise in this area? I am willing to donate to a go-fund-me site to support the effort.

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by Erijo

As I read through all the posts, I came away with the feeling of "if I can't have this, no one can!" Shame on the few who started this suit. Did it accomplish what you wanted? Instead of accommodating your disability, you took away any chance of that. In fact you "punished" every Villager who went to the LLC or planned to, not to mention all the teachers who lose income, and children who lose the opportunity to a better education. Your plea that no one hold it against you will fall on "deaf ears" (if you will). You and your group have caused such heartache, anger, frustration and hard feelings. With that being said, I hope you're happy with yourselves and the outcome of these actions. In my humble opinion, Villagers are so generous and so happy to help. I think a better solution could have been found if you had just asked.

[Putt4Dough]

“I am deeply saddened that the Lifelong Learning College has chosen to retaliate against members of the deaf community in The Villages by closing its doors,” said Louis Schwarz, a longtime leader in the deaf community.

This quote shows you where Louis is at, its all about him and his community, no mention of the 18,000 Villagers affected.

[rivaridger1]

I am not defending anyone's actions in this post but the fact of the matter is the governmental agencies in The Villages play " lip service " to accommodating the handicapped and disabled and about the only way to get them redress a problem is to start citing the ADA with the promise of filing complaints with the federal government. We had a situation earlier this year were the lift chairs at three close by area pools had not been maintained and stopped operating correctly. There was no rush to fix them despite numerous written complaints and it was suggested that there are many pools in The Villages, so why don't you go and find one with an operating lift chair. All well and good, except for the fact you are telling a disabled person to do that. Even with that said, one of the lift chairs is still a danger to anyone using it unaware of the particular issue creating this situation. That is in spite of the fact the defect was personally pointed out to one of the recreation center directors. The reality
is most people would prefer the disabled remain behind closed doors and out of sight giving little thought to the fact we all are guaranteed to ultimately face that same eventuality.

[Madelaine Amee]

Originally Posted by rivaridger1

The reality
is most people would prefer the disabled remain behind closed doors and out of sight giving little thought to the fact we all are guaranteed to ultimately face that same eventuality.

I, personally, find this last sentence (above) to be extremely offensive. There are very few people in this world who will ignore "need" on the part of a fellow man. In my case it never enters my mind to stand back if I can be of help.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by Advogado

The problem with those alternatives is that there is no way to duplicate the huge array of courses that have been offered by the LLLC. Its closure is tragic. I hope that it is not too late for the plaintiffs and Developer to reach an accord that results in the LLLC's remaining open.

To answer a question raised by another poster: The Villages Charter School (which runs the LLLC as part of its operation) is a nonprofit corporation, legally separate from the developer. However, it is controlled by the developer-- so it is really the developer who will be making the call about whether to close the LLLC or keep it open.

As to the developer: Although we refer to the developer as a "he", the developer is really an "it"-- a corporation called The Villages of Lake-Sumter, Inc. That corporation is part of a spaghetti-plate conglomeration of corporations controlled by the Morse family. If you have an appetite for complexity, you can find an ownership chart at corporationwiki.com.

My experience with fights like this is limited but I doubt if any agreement between the parties to the lawsuit would happen now. I wish it would though for all the people involved.

My suggestions are just a stop gap until something even bigger and better than the Lifelong Learning College could be set up with the proper accommodations. What is "reasonable" accommodations seems to depend a great deal on what judge or jury you get. Would this be a matter for a judge or can a jury also decided something like this? I do have a JD but am trained as a Law Librarian not a lawyer.

I still do not see this as about the money but about the principles involved in the case. Unless that is the damages requested are ridiculous in proportion to the harm suffered. Then it is a group of lawyers looking to win the lottery. They just do not look like those kind of lawyers from what I can find about them on the Internet.