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-   The Villages, Florida, General Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/)
-   -   Lifelong Learning Center (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/lifelong-learning-center-220823/)

Advogado 12-09-2016 01:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wavy Chips (Post 1331681)
I'm a lawyer and have looked over the court decision on the motion for summary judgment.
I'm not a lawyer, but here is my $0.02

Would somebody please explain to me how closing the LLC is going to end the lawsuit, as is often asserted in this thread. I just don't understand it. The LLC is not a defendant and does not even exist as a separate entity.
I completely agree with this assertion.

"The Villages Lifelong Learning College" is merely a fictitious name, registered to the Charter School, under which the Charter School conducts adult education classes. Ceasing to provide those classes will not stop the plaintiffs from claiming damages for the alleged past violations of the ADA. All it will do is prevent liability to the School for alleged FUTURE violations-- but the lawsuit against the Charter School will continue, unless the plaintiffs (and their attorneys) have a change of heart for some reason. That seems unlikely since they are clearly after the money they hope to be awarded. But maybe the community outrage that is building over their lawsuit will cause at least some of the plaintiffs to rethink what they are doing and withdraw.
Agreed, closing the LLC only stops the potential of future violations/issues. The courts will decide if there were past violations and if so, what the penalties are. Closing the LLC also gets public sentiment on your side "to try the case in the court of public opinion" and potentially influence the plaintiffs to drop the case

I will also be interested in seeing how it is possible that transferring adult ed to the VCCDD would avoid the same kind of risk of lawsuits under the ADA that confronted the Charter School. The decision to have the VCCDD run the risk will require a change of heart by the Developer, who, after all, really made the decision to shut down the LLC. Why would he feel differently if the VCCDD (which he controls) is running risk instead of the School that he also controls.
My understanding is that the RLG's are exempt from the ADA and RA requirements (correct me if I'm wrong). So, all of the classes would/could be reorganized as RLG's.

In this regard, realize that the December 2 Daily Sun headline stating that the lawsuit "forced" the closure is misleading. School systems throughout the country conduct adult ed classes despite the risk of ADA lawsuits. There is no real reason why the Charter School here could not also do so if so inclined. The closure was a result of a decision by the Developer. You can argue about whether or not it was justified under the circumstances.
Again, just my speculation, but the closure was done primarily to get public outcry. You have already read that they are trying to create LLC 2.0


The curious thing to watch is if the school wins on all counts, will the LLC reopen in the same structure as before?
As regards your two cents, I think that you are spot on.

Regarding your suggestion that the classes might be re-organized and recharacterized as RLG's: That could've been tried under the auspices of the charter school if the developer had wanted to do so. However, the operation of the adult education program would require a degree of involvement by the VCCDD or charter school that might make it hard to sustain the argument that it is a genuine club.

Remember, also, that the plaintiffs have not given up on screwing over the clubs. Plaintiffs are appealing the summary judgment dismissal of their claims against the clubs.

Personally, I would like to see the developer have the charter school keep the LLC open, continue to fight the lawsuit, and enlist the help of business groups like the Chamber of Commerce as well as citizens groups like the POA and VHA to mount an effort to amend the ADA to prevent this kind of lawsuit in the future--and maybe amend the laws throughout the US so that, as in other countries, the loser in a lawsuit pays the winner's attorney fees. That last change would stop a whole bunch of frivolous lawsuits. Little chance of any of this happening.

wisemaj 12-09-2016 01:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rexxfan (Post 1328946)
And requiring interpreters for each and every class be paid for by everyone is reasonable? No matter the cost? Sorry, that's where I part ways with you.
--
Bob C
Bob,

I believe you are making an assumption that invalidates your argument here. Interpreters would not be required for "each and every class", only those attended by a hearing-impaired resident requesting assistance, a very small percentage of the total class offerings. Your assumption grossly overstates the costs involved.

Taltarzac725 12-09-2016 01:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Advogado (Post 1331709)
As regards your two cents, I think that you are spot on.

Regarding your suggestion that the classes might be re-organized and recharacterized as RLG's: That could've been tried under the auspices of the charter school if the developer had wanted to do so. However, the operation of the adult education program would require a degree of involvement by the VCCDD or charter school that might make it hard to sustain the argument that it is a genuine club.

Remember, also, that the plaintiffs have not given up on screwing over the clubs. Plaintiffs are appealing the summary judgment dismissal of their claims against the clubs.

Personally, I would like to see the developer have the charter school keep the LLC open, continue to fight the lawsuit, and enlist the help of business groups like the Chamber of Commerce as well as citizens groups like the POA and VHA to mount an effort to amend the ADA to prevent his kind of lawsuit in the future--and maybe amend the laws throughout the US so that, as in other countries, the loser in a lawsuit pays the winner's attorney fees. That last change would stop a whole bunch of frivolous lawsuits. Little chance of any of this happening.
I have been trying to get more people interested in this by copying and pasting the link to this thread on Facebook. I use Facebook heavily in my 224 613 Project. I would never sell social media short even if there are many dangers to Free Speech with no real limitations on it. Not TOTV that much but Facebook where there are many many people spreading false information.

Carla B 12-09-2016 02:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wisemaj (Post 1331715)
Bob,

I believe you are making an assumption that invalidates your argument here. Interpreters would not be required for "each and every class", only those attended by a hearing-impaired resident requesting assistance, a very small percentage of the total class offerings. Your assumption grossly overstates the costs involved.
Well, how about the other point brought out in defendant's argument: the difficulty in locating and scheduling certified interpreters plus paying for travel expense?

Advogado 12-09-2016 03:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carla B (Post 1331746)
Well, how about the other point brought out in defendant's argument: the difficulty in locating and scheduling certified interpreters plus paying for travel expense?
Furthermore, one can argue that an adult ed program should have no obligation at all to provide signers. "Reasonable accommodation" by an adult ed program run by a nonprofit could just involve allowing a deaf student to bring his own signer to class, at the student's expense. Why should the school, i.e., the other students, be required to pay? You can argue it either way.

But where does it all stop? Do adult ed programs have to pay for describers, who can describe for a blind student what is written on a blackboard? Do theaters have to pay for both signers for the deaf and describers for the blind?

graciegirl 12-09-2016 03:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Advogado (Post 1331709)
As regards your two cents, I think that you are spot on.

Regarding your suggestion that the classes might be re-organized and recharacterized as RLG's: That could've been tried under the auspices of the charter school if the developer had wanted to do so. However, the operation of the adult education program would require a degree of involvement by the VCCDD or charter school that might make it hard to sustain the argument that it is a genuine club.

Remember, also, that the plaintiffs have not given up on screwing over the clubs. Plaintiffs are appealing the summary judgment dismissal of their claims against the clubs.

Personally, I would like to see the developer have the charter school keep the LLC open, continue to fight the lawsuit, and enlist the help of business groups like the Chamber of Commerce as well as citizens groups like the POA and VHA to mount an effort to amend the ADA to prevent this kind of lawsuit in the future--and maybe amend the laws throughout the US so that, as in other countries, the loser in a lawsuit pays the winner's attorney fees. That last change would stop a whole bunch of frivolous lawsuits. Little chance of any of this happening.
Little chance of changing the ADA. That would be wasting money like pouring sand down a rat hole.

Sometimes you cannot win. Then you do something else. As I said before, most of these classes are small. They could be held in peoples homes, many of them.

Taltarzac725 12-09-2016 04:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 1331763)
Little chance of changing the ADA. That would be wasting money like pouring sand down a rat hole.

Sometimes you cannot win. Then you do something else. As I said before, most of these classes are small. They could be held in peoples homes, many of them.
I have heard that the Genealogy Courses at the LLC were quite big.

And for this matter you just have to change the hearts and minds of these plaintiffs to accept reasonable accommodation by the Villages' developers. Harder said than done.

It will take different groups around the US working together to change how the ADA is interpreted. That can be done; it just takes organization, commitment and stubbornness. That 60 minutes segment from last Sunday night certainly will help a great deal with it as would Facebook and people getting involved.

cavalier65 12-09-2016 04:33 PM
Life Long LC should not return!
 
Given that many residents enjoyed/benefited from classes at LLLC, it is a shame that political correctness destroyed it. Yet, it is gone and should remain so. The ADA supporters, Fed. Govt. enforcers, and liberal courts will never allow the LLLC, in whatever form, open up again without fulltime hearing signers or describers.

All official Villages organizations, such as CCDs, developer, etc., should keep away from this controversy so that residents to not have to pay fees and damages when the plaintiffs get their way. It will happen in the United States. That is who we are now. The minority(s) rule the majority in every situation. Get over it or change it!:bigbow:

greatime 12-09-2016 05:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taltarzac725 (Post 1331249)
I spent ten days at BYU Law School in 1982. Was there on a Merit Scholarship for non-Mormons. Dropped out. Then went to get speech training at the University of Nevada, Reno. And journeyed to the University of Denver to get a MA in Librarianship and Information Management in May of 1984. Eventually went back to law school at the U of MN (Class of 1989) to become a law librarian and fight for more practical materials in libraries for victims/survivors of crimes of all kinds. A struggle I have had to do since mid 1991 from outside of law librarianship looking in after the powers that be blacklisted me. Mainly so that the money could keep coming into these big law firms who have control of the conversation along with the conservatism of the legal profession. I had to enlist everyone I could think of to change that conversation by bringing in people from many disciplines and many walks of life. Movie stars, writers, comedians, singers, celebrities, scholars, social workers, psychiatrists, CEOs, victim/witness assistance providers, police, etc. My main motivation in this was to help survivors/victms of crimes due to a long history of personal experiences with victims/survivors of crimes. I have communicated with a lot of lawyers since 1991 about this work and with some who have been real a-holes about this; many have not. For instance, some of my fellow Law Student Class of 1989 members have not been all that friendly. And some incredibly creative hurdles have been thrown up against me over the past almost 26 years.
Wow, I am completely overwhelmed and confused! I admit to everyone I am new at this, but I spent hours reading every posting.

What I was able to absorb was that this started out as the LLC being closed down by 32 malcontent deaf people. Then it changed to it being voluntarily dismembered. Then everyone in the world chipped in with their own ideas on the matter with no ownership to facts. Now it has morphed into a, I am a lawyer and your not, so it seems, and a history from birth conception to current times of a lawyer. How about all the lawyers offering verbiage to these threads enter the case as "friends of the court?" Maybe it is too late?


Is this what these threads are supposed to be? I said :ohdear:I was confused! Why can't they be utilized by informing others of a problem and offering solutions. The use of FACTS should be the prerequisite. Of course opinions can be/should be used, but they should be noted at being opinion.

Again, I am completely confused. All of the above is my opinion.

SALYBOW 12-09-2016 07:44 PM
IMHO the developer might not realize that some people chose TV especially because of the LLC. I know I did. My husband can golf at any of the place around here: Spruce Creek, Stonecrest, Water Oak. etc. But I could not get LLL at them. With us putting our home on the market anyway, this may send us to a place that sells, homes more reasonably, without the amenity fee. We are looking around outside the Villages. TV may not lose a lot of current people, but not having the LLC will definitely be a detriment to some people to pay the amenity fee if they can't get what they want here anymore. I know the artist around here are up in arms. If TV wanted to do something, they would think of some way around it.
There is already some place which is thinking of doing this. Will have to look up where.
At LLC I learned watercolour, acrylics, cooking, knitting. drawing, and proper techniques to strengthen my core. All good classes. I have always stuck up for the developer, but they have lost my respect land for future development, without beefing up the infrastructure so why add another discouragement to the mix. Even the people that build in Feeney will need to come north for medical care, shopping and worshiping and they all will need to take Buena Vista and Morse.

Taltarzac725 12-09-2016 08:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SALYBOW (Post 1331832)
IMHO the developer might not realize that some people chose TV especially because of the LLC. I know I did. My husband can golf at any of the place around here: Spruce Creek, Stonecrest, Water Oak. etc. But I could not get LLL at them. With us putting our home on the market anyway, this may send us to a place that sells, homes more reasonably, without the amenity fee. We are looking around outside the Villages. TV may not lose a lot of current people, but not having the LLC will definitely be a detriment to some people to pay the amenity fee if they can't get what they want here anymore. I know the artist around here are up in arms. If TV wanted to do something, they would think of some way around it.
There is already some place which is thinking of doing this. Will have to look up where.
At LLC I learned watercolour, acrylics, cooking, knitting. drawing, and proper techniques to strengthen my core. All good classes. I have always stuck up for the developer, but they have lost my respect land for future development, without beefing up the infrastructure so why add another discouragement to the mix. Even the people that build in Feeney will need to come north for medical care, shopping and worshiping and they all will need to take Buena Vista and Morse.
Give the Villages developers some time to fix this. With all the publicity generated by this thread and other news sources I really believe that they will go out of their way to remedy this problem of the LLC. It should not be that hard to get reasonable accommodations for those with various disabilities like hearing problems. Still copy and paste this thread of Facebook. That should get the word out. Spotlight this in other words.

Taltarzac725 12-09-2016 09:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatime (Post 1331795)
Wow, I am completely overwhelmed and confused! I admit to everyone I am new at this, but I spent hours reading every posting.

What I was able to absorb was that this started out as the LLC being closed down by 32 malcontent deaf people. Then it changed to it being voluntarily dismembered. Then everyone in the world chipped in with their own ideas on the matter with no ownership to facts. Now it has morphed into a, I am a lawyer and your not, so it seems, and a history from birth conception to current times of a lawyer. How about all the lawyers offering verbiage to these threads enter the case as "friends of the court?" Maybe it is too late?


Is this what these threads are supposed to be? I said :ohdear:I was confused! Why can't they be utilized by informing others of a problem and offering solutions. The use of FACTS should be the prerequisite. Of course opinions can be/should be used, but they should be noted at being opinion.

Again, I am completely confused. All of the above is my opinion.
Strange first post. I have been on here since July 2007 and many people know me on here. Probably one hundred or so in person too.

I like hearing the backgrounds of the lawyers or law librarians like me on this topic as it involves the law and a court case. Patent lawyers, tax lawyers, criminal defense lawyers, prosecutors, judges, etc., would probably each have a different spin on this Lifelong Learning Center case.

There are a lot of retired lawyers in the Villages and at least four or so I am aware of on TOTV.

This is my 22, 169 post so I have a lot of opinions with some facts thrown in too. And pretty much every post on this thread is someone's opinion unless they are a party in the case and then they are probably supposed to stay quiet about the whole thing.

TheDude 12-09-2016 09:18 PM
(6 posts a day, every day for 9 years.. wow)

Maybe the villages and talk a local university to bring a satellite school to TV.

The Learning Annex in NYC is still going strong, maybe something like that also.

(disclaimer, I am not going to read 66 pages of this thread, sorry).

Carl in Tampa 12-09-2016 09:44 PM
Seriously?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SALYBOW (Post 1331832)
IMHO the developer might not realize that some people chose TV especially because of the LLC. I know I did. My husband can golf at any of the place around here: Spruce Creek, Stonecrest, Water Oak. etc. But I could not get LLL at them. With us putting our home on the market anyway, this may send us to a place that sells, homes more reasonably, without the amenity fee. We are looking around outside the Villages. TV may not lose a lot of current people, but not having the LLC will definitely be a detriment to some people to pay the amenity fee if they can't get what they want here anymore. I know the artist around here are up in arms. If TV wanted to do something, they would think of some way around it.
There is already some place which is thinking of doing this. Will have to look up where.
At LLC I learned watercolour, acrylics, cooking, knitting. drawing, and proper techniques to strengthen my core. All good classes. I have always stuck up for the developer, but they have lost my respect land for future development, without beefing up the infrastructure so why add another discouragement to the mix. Even the people that build in Feeney will need to come north for medical care, shopping and worshiping and they all will need to take Buena Vista and Morse.
I find the amenities fees to be incredibly low when considering all that they cover. In addition to the golf courses, there are the dozens of recreation centers (with meeting rooms; many with bocce ball, pickleball, shuffleboard, horseshoes, etc.); dozens of swimming pools, Multi Modal Paths throughout the entire area, baseball fields, three Town Centers with daily free, live entertainment, and golfcart accessible shopping and dining. In addition the streets and the public areas are maintained in impeccable order and cleanliness. And there is no separate Homeowner's Association fee. Although I regret the loss of the LLC, it is only one factor in an impressive array of amenities.

So, if you feel constrained to leave The Villages due to the closing of the LLC, farewell. Since your house was already on the market, perhaps this was not the determining factor in your decision to move.

You may find that your newly selected development has similar fees, or even simply a Homeowner's Association fee that meets or is greater than the amenities fee in The Villages......and still without a Learning Center.

If the "artists around here" are so up in arms about the loss of the LLC, why don't they form a club and bring in the former art instructors to provide some classes for which the club members could pay? Or even do it informally in someone's home.

Mleeja 12-09-2016 09:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SALYBOW (Post 1331832)
IMHO the developer might not realize that some people chose TV especially because of the LLC. I know I did. My husband can golf at any of the place around here: Spruce Creek, Stonecrest, Water Oak. etc. But I could not get LLL at them. With us putting our home on the market anyway, this may send us to a place that sells, homes more reasonably, without the amenity fee. We are looking around outside the Villages. TV may not lose a lot of current people, but not having the LLC will definitely be a detriment to some people to pay the amenity fee if they can't get what they want here anymore. I know the artist around here are up in arms. If TV wanted to do something, they would think of some way around it.
There is already some place which is thinking of doing this. Will have to look up where.
At LLC I learned watercolour, acrylics, cooking, knitting. drawing, and proper techniques to strengthen my core. All good classes. I have always stuck up for the developer, but they have lost my respect land for future development, without beefing up the infrastructure so why add another discouragement to the mix. Even the people that build in Feeney will need to come north for medical care, shopping and worshiping and they all will need to take Buena Vista and Morse.
I am sorry that you are leaving TV. I hope you find what you are looking for outside TV. The LLC was certainly a nice perk for Villagers but it had nothing to do with our amenity fees or being exclusive to The Villages residents. Anyone from anywhere could take classes. It cost non-residents a bit more, but the classes were available.

dirtbanker 12-09-2016 10:00 PM
8,800,000 a month does seem to go a long way...

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CFrance 12-09-2016 11:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatime (Post 1331795)
Wow, I am completely overwhelmed and confused! I admit to everyone I am new at this, but I spent hours reading every posting.

What I was able to absorb was that this started out as the LLC being closed down by 32 malcontent deaf people. Then it changed to it being voluntarily dismembered. Then everyone in the world chipped in with their own ideas on the matter with no ownership to facts. Now it has morphed into a, I am a lawyer and your not, so it seems, and a history from birth conception to current times of a lawyer. How about all the lawyers offering verbiage to these threads enter the case as "friends of the court?" Maybe it is too late?


Is this what these threads are supposed to be? I said :ohdear:I was confused! Why can't they be utilized by informing others of a problem and offering solutions. The use of FACTS should be the prerequisite. Of course opinions can be/should be used, but they should be noted at being opinion.

Again, I am completely confused. All of the above is my opinion.
And that is what a forum is all about!

Taltarzac725 12-09-2016 11:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFrance (Post 1331886)
And that is what a forum is all about!
Telling people your opinion about something-- like the Lifelong Learning College.

Lawyers would be offering informed opinions but still just those for the most part.

There are facts in this massive case. I would hate to be a juror in that mess.

greatime 12-10-2016 07:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taltarzac725 (Post 1331861)
Strange first post. I have been on here since July 2007 and many people know me on here. Probably one hundred or so in person too.

I like hearing the backgrounds of the lawyers or law librarians like me on this topic as it involves the law and a court case. Patent lawyers, tax lawyers, criminal defense lawyers, prosecutors, judges, etc., would probably each have a different spin on this Lifelong Learning Center case.

There are a lot of retired lawyers in the Villages and at least four or so I am aware of on TOTV.

This is my 22, 169 post so I have a lot of opinionst with some facts thrown in too. And pretty much every post on this thread is someone's opinion unless they are a party in the case and then they are probably supposed to stay quiet about the whole thing.
Thank you for your response. However I am further confused as to why this was a strange post. Perhaps it was because I referred to reading your personal life history imbedded in a LLC article? I was confused and exhausted after reading some 600 posts and then coming across a completely personal life history. I would think after all these years and thousands of posts all of the people who know you would already be aware of your many accomplishments. I was questioning the proper "forum" for this information as I was attempting to obtain information on the LLC. But yet, you call my post strange. Please accept my apology if I offended you.

Moderator 12-10-2016 07:40 AM
The topic is the Lifelong Learning College and the recent lawsuit that caused its closure.

Please stay on topic.

Moderator

Taltarzac725 12-10-2016 09:41 AM
The Villages Lifelong Learning College enrichment classes for adults.

A sad state of affairs.

greatime 12-10-2016 09:59 AM
I thought I was on topic when I expressed that I was interested in the LLC instead of someone's personal history. Please explain how that subject matter meshes with the LLC.

golfing eagles 12-10-2016 10:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatime (Post 1331962)
I thought I was on topic when I expressed that I was interested in the LLC instead of someone's personal history. Please explain how that subject matter meshes with the LLC.
Perhaps since there is a legal case against the LLLC ongoing, the personal legal experiences of a retired lawyer with experience in victim's rights cases would have some degree of relevance. I report, you decide....

Taltarzac725 12-10-2016 10:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 1331966)
Perhaps since there is a legal case against the LLLC ongoing, the personal legal experiences of a retired lawyer with experience in victim's rights cases would have some degree of relevance. I report, you decide....
Actually my experience is in the appearance of a disability while fighting for victims' rights since January 1991. That was the strategy used against me. Attack me personally rather than go at the issue I was addressing and am still working on.

The ADA has some very complicated cases associated with it. In the period before its passage I remember being quite confused myself by one of these cases dealing with the appearance of disability as well were some of the judges in Moot Court at the University of Minnesota Law School.

If you look at the lawsuit too involving the Lifelong Learning College it does seem quite complex unless the lawyers on here help you understand it. And I would like to know the background of the lawyers who are giving us the down-low on the case that resulted in the shutting down of the Lifelong Learning College. I am not a lawyer but a law librarian. Law librarians should be getting you information so that you can get at the facts which I have been trying to do. The backgrounds of lawyers on here are some of those facts. And I am not retired but do this work because I love it. It is pro bono in other words. SCHWARZ v. THE VILLAGES CHARTER SCHOOL, INC. | Case No. 5:12-cv-177-Oc-34PRL. | Leagle.com.

Madelaine Amee 12-10-2016 10:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatime (Post 1331962)
I thought I was on topic when I expressed that I was interested in the LLC instead of someone's personal history. Please explain how that subject matter meshes with the LLC.
Lots of people log on here, you will learn very quickly whose opinions interest you and whose to skim over.

Villageswimmer 12-10-2016 10:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatime (Post 1331962)
I thought I was on topic when I expressed that I was interested in the LLC instead of someone's personal history. Please explain how that subject matter meshes with the LLC.

IMHO you WERE on topic. I think that's why the mod finally jumped in. This forum is more liberal than most WRT staying--or not staying-- on topic. Again, just my opinion. Namaste.

Boomer 12-10-2016 10:51 AM
Aw, c'mon.......

Can't happen!

No way!

Won't work!

I am in a bit of a snit this morning after reading posts saying classes could meet in private homes.

Yeah, right.

Logistics.

Impossible Ratios.

Space in General. -- Nobody's got a basement rec room.

Parking Spots.

Potential for liability. (Could be one of those opportunistic tripper-types signs up. Whoops!)

And, of course, somebody eventually hollers the ever-popular, "Hey! You really got that many friends or are all those people paying you for something. AHA! You can't run a business outa your TV house!"

.........Sooooo, I do not find that private home idea to be truly helpful. In fact, it feels a little dismissive to me. Thus, my snit.....But, yeah, I know. It's my ox getting gored.

Boomer

Note to Self: Stop looking at this thread. You do not like being in a snit.

greatime 12-10-2016 11:03 AM
:bigbow:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Villageswimmer (Post 1331990)
IMHO you WERE on topic. I think that's why the mod finally jumped in. This forum is more liberal than most WRT staying--or not staying-- on topic. Again, just my opinion. Namaste.
Thank you for your considerate words. I was feeling like I was being ripped apart by the legal profession as well as the moderator. Again, thank you.

stan the man 12-10-2016 11:34 AM
I see two options for a solution to this problem first-- would be to approach the largest church in the villages, St. Timothy, or Temple shalom asked them if they have any room or would help to continue with the learning college.
Secondly-- have the learning College look into the legality of becoming a church and therefore be exempt from the ADA. Then Mr. Swartz can sue the temple or the church to try and get what he feels he's entitled to.

Taltarzac725 12-11-2016 09:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan the man (Post 1332021)
I see two options for a solution to this problem first-- would be to approach the largest church in the villages, St. Timothy, or Temple shalom asked them if they have any room or would help to continue with the learning college.
Secondly-- have the learning College look into the legality of becoming a church and therefore be exempt from the ADA. Then Mr. Swartz can sue the temple or the church to try and get what he feels he's entitled to.
ADA Title III Technical Assistance Manual

This might be of interest. I see that churches do have to comply with the ADA as far as their employees are concerned if they have enough employees. Not church goers though.

PennBF 12-11-2016 09:39 AM
Options
 
It can be noted in the Villages "The Mix" the December 10th issue on the south side of 466 that a group of Deaf Villager's did take classes in painting at Wine & Design in Oxford on Nov.1st. :wave:

kas52 12-11-2016 08:59 PM
Deaf battle The Villages in federal court
Deaf battle The Villages in federal court - Orlando Sentinel

dirtbanker 12-11-2016 09:23 PM
Wow, seems a little biased...Now it turns out Schwarz is an attorney? He states the deaf are paying the same amenity fees and getting less. How about the many that own a home in the villages, that do not live full time in the villages (more than the numbet of plantiffs) that pay the same amenities fees and get less? This clown wants more than anyone else that pays the fees (does the person that does not speak English deserve an Interpreter?). Schwarz is a jackass, he litigated to force the closing of the school and took that away from the majority of people that pay amenity fees.

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Mleeja 12-11-2016 09:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kas52 (Post 1332649)
Deaf battle The Villages in federal court
Deaf battle The Villages in federal court - Orlando Sentinel
Wow! What a hit piece on The Villages. The writer looks like she has some type of bias against The Villages.

CFrance 12-11-2016 09:49 PM
I'm confused about Swartz's statement concerning amenity fees. What do amenity fees have to do with LLC? I thought LLC was paid for through tuition.

Wavy Chips 12-11-2016 10:03 PM
For what it's worth:

Americans with Disabilities Act Information

Not sure if this has been posted or not.

kstew43 12-11-2016 10:39 PM
The VCDD will in compliance with the law, upon request, provide appropriate aids and services leading to effective communication for qualified persons with disabilities so they can participate equally in VCDD programs, services, and activities, including qualified sign language interpreters, documents in Braille, and other ways of making information and communications accessible to people who have speech, hearing, or vision impairments.

Straight from the policys manual...

So why didn't this apply for the hearing impaired at the Learning College? who dropped the ball? and why did the 32 people have to bring about a 2nd lawsuit...

My opinion...the deaf won the 1st lawsuit for Villages TV station sub-titles ....the Villages was afraid to loose the LLC lawsuit as well...so answer shut LLC down...

Bad choice...

Taltarzac725 12-12-2016 07:30 AM
The Orlando Sentinel article by our frequent naysayer Lauren Ritchie - Orlando Sentinel has me confused. Is this an appeal in Atlanta or a trial in Ocala?

zenwaltz 12-12-2016 09:04 AM
I so identify with your trying to refrain from saying something that you shouldn't.

golfing eagles 12-12-2016 09:26 AM
Here's an interesting question for someone familiar with the ADA (attorney, not plaintiff):

Many, but far from all TV shows are closed captioned. Yet the FCC licenses these stations, part of the requirement being that they operate "in the public interest" So why aren't they ALL required to be closed captioned, including 50 year old re-runs? Isn't this the same as the plaintiffs wanting interpreters in ALL classes? Also, if you look carefully, there is usually a statement that says "closed captioning provided by______" , usually a sponsor. So why isn't the TV STATION required TO PAY FOR closed captioning, like the LLLC would be? Seems like the ability of the deaf to enjoy TV programming is restricted to shows with CC, so why aren't they suing for "equality"? Perhaps ASL interpreters could be provided in the most popular classes, and perhaps outside funding could be arranged for other classes as well.


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