The Developer suppressed all news of the lawsuit for years, and then suddenly sprang the news of the lawsuit by announcing the closing of the LLLC in his newspaper-- in two articles full of bull and devoid of details. The reporting by The Daily Sun on the issue has been, to put in mildly, shameful. The Daily Sun should be the one doing the digging-- not us.
I'm not sure that the developer "suppressed" all of the news, but as I posted before, no organization airs their legal issues in public. It will have absolutely no bearing on the outcome and only leads to threads like this one that are 99.9% based on hearsay and speculation. Who knows, had they spoke out about this 3 years ago, the LLC may have closed 3 years ago. As for the plaintiff, if they were so sure of their position, why didn't they go public? Probably because they knew that 99.9% of the sentiment would have been against them and they would have had to endure 3 years of online and possibly personal ridicule.

On the other hand, the plaintiffs started the lawsuit before making any effort to reach out to the community for a solution. They may, as claimed by the Developer in the Daily Sun, be totally unreasonable. We just don't know. Only the plaintiffs and the Developer have the full story, and they aren't being forthcoming with the community.
Same response as above.

But let's keep one thing in mind: School systems throughout the country run adult education programs like the LLLC despite the ADA and the possibility of frivolous lawsuits. So the question is: Why cannot The Villages Charter School do the same? We don't know the answer.
I think one of the points the plaintiffs were trying to prove, was a very direct connection between the developer and the school. If that could have been proven, you then have access to the developers deep pockets for all forms of remedy and compensation. If not, the school which has shallow pockets closes the LLC to prevent future potential losses that could lead to the closing of the entire school. Another point was to try to prove that the RLG's are identical to the LLC and thus subject to the same laws. I think they were also trying to prove a connection between the RLG's and the developer as well, again to gain access to deep pockets. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but to date, the developer has won every point. The last point to be decided is if the RLG's are subject to ADA and RA laws, no?

If you have a masochistic streak and really want to dig deeper, you can sign up for something called PACER and look at all the court documents, which are voluminous. Our Federal Government at work-- making it extremely difficult for the public to access Federal court records.

However, after signing up for PACER and paying to see the documents, you still won't understand the full story since you won't have access to the communications between the parties. At this point, I have no stomach to further dig into this myself, since none of us can do much about the LLLC closing-- which is in the hands of the Developer and the plaintiffs.
I had a Pacer account and it can get expensive since you pay by the page and many of these documents are dozens of pages long. Even with the documents, you are only getting part of the story.

More importantly in my view: Watch for the outcome of Plaintiffs' appeal of the summary judgment dismissal of their compliant attacking The Villages clubs. If that dismissal is overturned, we have a much more serious problem here than just the LLLC closing. As of this morning, the Court of Appeals website doesn't show that any decision has been rendered.
100 % correct!

As to the LLLC closing: Apparently efforts are being made to construct a substitute. I'm not holding my breath on that one, since the plaintiffs are likely to raise the same ADA/Rehabilitation Act issues regarding the substitute.
100% correct!

As to your question about the likelihood of a settlement: The plaintiffs' attorneys have sunk a tremendous number of billable hours into this matter-- looking to get paid by the defendants. If the summary judgment dismissal re the clubs is upheld on appeal, maybe the plaintiffs' attorneys will decide that they want to cut their losses, but I doubt it. They will probably continue on the LLLC issue-- unless the Developer is willing to pony up a significant amount of money for their fees. Remember that closing the "Lifelong Learning College" (just a name used by The Villages Charter School for its adult education program) does not end the lawsuit.
This one is a crapshoot. The plaintiffs attorneys will evaluate the chances of winning on appeal and the odds of getting paid before proceeding - common sense. This is the only time where this tread with 800+ posts and 80,000+ views that are 99.9% of the same thinking, might have some impact - but don't count on it.

Question
 

This is true. That being said, aren't these same "litigants" going after any and every activity?

Yep...Schwarz wants money or interpreters for every activity...
Can you imagine the busy interpreter at the square on a night while Scooter is performing. I guess they will have to designate an area for the deaf to sit where they are in direct view of the interpreter. If someone yells from the crowd, do they sign that too?

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Kinda like the seat savers...just in case they want to show up. Me, me, me mentality abounds.

Originally I was angry when I heard about this. Now I just feel sad. Given what so many have lost, what has anyone gained? Have we completely lost our common sense?

Let us root for a complete victory by the defendants-- with the plaintiffs getting absolutely nothing as damages and their law firm having to eat hundreds of billable hours and related costs.

I hope that I am wrong, but I think that ONLY that outcome (which would preclude another lawsuit by the plaintiffs and would be a precedent if any others tried to sue) might result in the Developer changing his mind and the Charter School's reopening the Lifelong Learning College. Such reopening is what I think that virtually every contributor to this thread would like to have happen.

I am sure there is plenty of precedence with all the ADA lawsuits...but I will hope the plantiffs lose and move far away (itsallaboutmesville)!

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:thumbup:

Just buy all the plaintiff's homes and move them somewhere else

Learning Center
 

It is always about the money and how 37 people the minority tell the majority over 20,000 people that you will lose your rights. Next they will ask that all handouts and notices be in Braille for the blind. It is a sad day but society continues to be ruled by the minority, another example is taking God out of the schools. We are to blame to allow these things to happen. Welcome to 2017!
Peter Croden

Never mind. I am overthinking this. Deleted.

These are The Magic Sentences of Liberty:

LIBERTY is a poetic term for property rights.

Therefore there are only two kinds of laws:

1) laws that protect property rights,
2) laws that attack property rights.

"Have the government do unto other people's property as you'd have government do unto you and your property."

If you believe in Liberty, why do you support such a burdensome hideous #2 law like ADA?

One of the big influencing factors for our decision to move to the Villages in October 2016 was the LLLC - now it's closed before we even got a chance to take classes. Can't tell you how sad and frustrating that is for us.
I believe in 'reasonable' accommodations but as an employer I was also subjected to 'unreasonable' accommodations' on occasion. Why do people have to take advantage of a situation? I hope the unreasonable people are happy now that everyone else in the Villages is affected by their actions.
I'm hopeful the LLLC will find a way to reopen.

I like to think something like the LLLC will resurface! :smiley:

The developer chooses their battles wisely. They beat the IRS and decided not to fight the LLLC fight. They are very smart when wanting to get things done. The question becomes, "do they want The LLLC to resurface as TV has so many other things to offer and possibly, it doesn't affect the bottom line".

Some people are miserable in life and have a need to drag other people down to their level. It's human nature for some people. I never seen miserable people stay friends with positive people. They tend to hang with their own kind.

I don't think the LLLC was THAT great. It had some very valuable art courses and a few valid other courses but some were just gooney. Zodiac stuff and kinda far out things that weren't really what I had expected from a "college".

Of course the courses that I took were six weeks and cost only $81 dollars.

The value of any specific course, like beauty, was in the eye of the beholder. Many Villagers opted to enroll and they have now lost this option. We were looking forward to four ballroom dancing classes with the Conrads. We weren't trying to find college courses like thermodynamics or metaphysics.

I agree with you. There were many courses that appealed to us besides the four years of French and Spanish and beginning line dancing instruction that we took. We were only just beginning. The genealogy courses, Italian, some computer instruction, and many more we were planning for the future. Having attended adult education courses in four cities, we found the scope of courses available at LLC to be mind boggling. I sincerely hope they manage to bring it back.

Me, too. The LLC offered so many interesting things. I took classes from teachers that I knew loved their subjects and were teaching for the love of teaching.

I always thought it would be fun to teach a class there........I tried to think of something I could teach.........but.......I don't think anybody would have signed up for a class on "How To Dance Like Elaine on Seinfeld."

Anyway, I am so sorry to see what is happening. I am a perpetual taker of classes and I sure had some good ones at the LLC.

Any update on the appeal ?

Totally agree. I did not go there to get "educated", I went there to "learn" and when I say learn I mean to find out how to use some of these new fangled technologies. This week I have been trying to find out more about something I saw and have no idea what it is or how it works, but I immediately thought of getting in touch with the College and the College is gone!

Years ago we did not have Life Long Learning Institutes, we had Night Schools.

Could LLLC be reincarnated as a club? Could there be a small membership fee ie: $20 +/- per year for those who wanted to take courses and then a recommended contribution for each course? Could such an org be a 501(c)(3)--not for profit (education).

I checked the court website Saturday, no update. As for the LLLC it appears there will be a meeting Wednesday to discuss its future. I am sure the results of the meeting will be published in the Daily Sun as a follow-up to todays article. I am hoping that arrangements can be made to bring it back.
Also hoping that the plaintiffs are NOT successful in the appeal, as this would probably be a disaster for all of the local clubs.

I agree completely. Thanks for the update.

The clubs are not out of danger yet. The neighborhood plaintiffs and their NYC lawyers are appealing the ruling that the clubs do not need to provide certified sign language interpreters. I think it went to court a couple weeks before Christmas but as far as what others have said, there has been no ruling made on the appeal yet.

As I understand it, the Clubs that are in danger are those considered Villages Clubs(sanctioned/licensed?) by The Villages. These clubs are allowed only to enlist members who are residents of TV. As such these clubs have access to rec center sites without charge. There are other groups which meet in TV that are not so sanctioned and allow outsiders to join (three Rotary Clubs ) for example).

Interesting point. Are Rotary Clubs and similar organizations required to follow ADA and RA laws?

Not that I have ever heard in 35 years of membership

Just checked the court log, and no update yet, on the appeal.

The court's opinion is now listed on the unpublished page:

http://media.ca11.uscourts.gov/opini.../201611122.pdf

I am not an attorney, but if I'm reading it correctly, it appears that the plaintiffs lost their appeal.

Apparent great news on the LLLC on the online source that cannot be named...

Yes, the Plaintiffs lost their appeal in Atlanta, so the Resident Lifestyle Groups are not under threat anymore. The Ocala judge, Marcia Morales, who wrote the original order obviously did a thorough job. Still to be tried in District Court is the Charter School matter.

Great news on all fronts !

Yes, this is great news. There was also great news from the VHA meeting. I have a suggestion for the VHA version of the Life Long Learning College, use the former site through a rental agreement. This greatly limits impacts to the recreation centers. I think we should no start a new thread on the NEW LLLC.

Do we know when that court date is? And where?

I believe the jury is now in deliberations. They have a lot of work to do as there are several issues to take into consideration for each of the plaintiffs.

Did each of the plaintiffs have separate counsel or separate trials? I was under the impression that this was a class action suit.

What court is this in? Will the verdict be published online?

If this case is to decide damages, anything short of a complete win for the defendants will leave the door open for future litigation. I believe the defendants have prevailed at every turn so far.

In a nutshell, no club or private organization (such as HOAs) are required to comply with ADA and RA as long as they are not open to the public or nomembers and do not receive public funding.

It is UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
M
IDDLE DISTRICT OF FLORIDA
OCALA
DIVISION
but I believe the trial is in Orlando. The defendants did agree that they should have complied with ADA when it came to LLLC, so this is what the jury is doing...assessing the damages the plaintiffs claim they suffered. (IMO, they suffered none) The Villages will need to watch from now on because the lead plaintiff will continue to sue. He is thinking already of filing a lawsuit regarding the speed bumps near some tunnel. Confrontational advocacy, not facilitative advocacy, is his thing.

And you know this how? :confused:


I'm just curious, given that you joined the site yesterday, have made all 7 posts about the LLC...but seem to know a lot about it. :shrug: