[Boomer]

Aaaaaaauuuuugh!!!! That title was supposed to say Along with buying “The Lifestyle” comes buying “The Future of the Lifestyle.” How is that future protected?

But that did not fit and then I tried to shorten it and then the phone rang and then I accidentally hit submit and then I got a lame title that says nothing and you can't change a title once it posts and where is Mr. Tony when you need him? And, oh well, I need help, so much help. Lots and lots of help....so please help me with these questions so I can get into the sunshine and out of miserable winters.

(But hey at least the accidental title was succinct. But I do not know how to do succinct. That title really was an accident....I try to make titles kind of specific...Oh well, I digress. Geez.)

This is the year when we could end up making the decision about whether or not to buy a snowbird place in TV. The decision to buy a second home is much easier to put off than the decision to buy a primary residence. And in my case, I need to make darned sure I want to deal with what it takes to own two homes – especially considering that we do not want to use the second one as a rental. We just want to have it there whenever we want to be there.

It is looking like 2010 could be the year to decide, but first there are some things I need to understand clearly. (I have always asked a lot of questions. When I was a little kid, my mom used to tell me that I asked more questions than a Philadelphia lawyer, and then I would ask her why the lawyer was always from Philadelphia.)

I have also had people say to me, “Boomer, you really think about stuff.”

And so it is. And there are many times when I consider all this thinking and asking questions to be a real curse. But I am not likely to change now, and I hope you will bear with me and help me out. So here goes….

The main thing I need to understand before buying is how the Lifestyle is protected when the developer is finished marketing TV.

When we visited the first time in 2007, we attended one of those meetings about how the governance works. But I did not understand all of it. And after I asked our TV rep a lot of questions, I still was not clear on how it all works. And so I backed up to breathe. We were in no hurry anyway.

But now, as I sit here looking out on this wretched winter here in gray, gray, gray Ohio, I know it is time to tie up these loose ends on these questions and move forward with the decision.

There is a wealth of knowledge here on TOTV and many of you are happy owners there. And I know that you must have asked the same questions and that you feel comfortable with the answers you found.

So please help me out. I need to understand, too. And I don’t. Not that I think there is anything wrong. But because I just do not get it because it is so different from anything in my frame of reference.

How is the future of TV’s Lifestyle protected by the governance that will be in place when the developer is finished marketing?

When the developer is finished, is there a plan for the music to continue in the squares every night? For the landscaping to still be so beautifully maintained? Will the Lifelong Learning College go on? And all that other great stuff you have there? TV is about so much more than just the golf courses and swimming pools. Those are wonderful, but it is the other stuff that makes TV so special.

And how is all that money from the amenities fees handled? Are the amenities fees invested? If so, under what guidelines? And who makes any investment decisions?

Do I understand correctly that the transition of governance is already taking place in some areas of TV? If so, how is that working out? Is there something in place in the law that prevents the emergence of little fiefdoms?

I understand buying the Lifestyle. It is unique and quite wonderful. If somebody cannot have a good time in TV then somebody is not trying. That part I get completely. But I need to understand the bigger picture. And I think there are those among us here who can help me to do that. I am asking that you educate me.

Thank you.

Boomer

[ssmith]

No answers here but I do have many of the same questions and here is another.

As I understand it the Developer still owns the town squares. Is that right?...and if it is ....doesn't that mean The Developer will always want to see it succeed?

Love your posts Boomer and will be watching this one with interest. I get confused whenever it gets explained to me and all those initials so I hope people speak plainly and slowly when they answer.

SSmith

[JohnN]

well Boomer, we bought in 2008. had some of the same concerns, still do, but $$$$$ talks and somebody is making a pile of it here and they'd be foolish to screw it up.

[graciegirl]

Well. I am the most conservative person with money I have ever met. There are times....especially when we get to a "certain age" that it is time to make some decisions that are just plain for selfishly being happy right now. Most of us have planned for the future carefully all of our lives.

The future is now.

Who cares if it goes under? (I don't think it will...but..a lot of what happens here that is fun is the interaction with others and that is fun because of the young mind set of the Villagers.)

We lived in a golf course community where the golf course went under and houses were built on it and most of the fun associated with the golf course went out the door. BUT we still lived in a nice house in a good community and had a lot of friends there. We went down the road to play golf instead of just down the street. We still had dinner parties and played bridge and had book club and garden club and walked our dog and chatted over the back fence.

I think TV will survive intact for the next ten years and I hope I do as well.

[Donna2]

Boomer,

I too have these nagging thoughts. I have been there for LSP and am hooked, line and sinker all the way. I guess we all want to hear reassuring words. I'll be keeping an eye on this thread.

Thanks Boomer for starting this thread.

[Pturner]

Originally Posted by actor

posts to this forum, and you don't even own a home in The Villages?

...Which only tells me that Boomer loves TV and belongs here. Also, TV loves her and Mr. Boomer and Baby Boomer (oh, no wait, she has another cute name for her daughter, but it escapes me at the moment).

Anyway, Boomer, you've invested a great deal of your time and your heart in TV and while, yes, there are uncertainties, I think that's the best answer to your question about whether you should buy the lifestyle.

I have a couple more thoughts about the future of the lifestyle but am suffering a nasty, nasty cold virus and my head is too mushed to write about it now. See you back here in a few days.

[coach]

Boomer,

I always enjoy your posts and hope you and Mr. Boomer make the decision that is best for you. While I have no inside information, my comments are based on five years as a villager and a lifetime of watching the phrase "follow the money" hold true in almost all decisions.

The Villages commercial property totals more than 2.7 million square ft. of commercial and retail space. Citizens First Bank and The Citizens First Wholesale Mortgage are family owned and very profitable. I say all this to make a point that long term success and the continuation of the lifestyle we enjoy makes financial sense to the owners. The owners want to rent buildings and make more money. And rightly they should!!

I understand that many developers buy a track of land, build houses, keep the pool clean until all the houses are sold and then walk away. I really don't think that is our fate. The CDD's will keep the pools open, the flowers planted and the residential portion of the Villages going for ever. It is the profit motive that will drive the town squares, nightly entertainment and the vast medical and commercial ventures.

I remember a professor years ago saying to an economics class I was in,
"It is not the benevolence of the butcher or the baker that we have bread and meat, it is their desire to make a profit."

[Boomer]

Originally Posted by JohnN

well Boomer, we bought in 2008. had some of the same concerns, still do, but $$$$$ talks and somebody is making a pile of it here and they'd be foolish to screw it up.

Hi John,

You make a good point.

The first time we rented in 2007, in the fall, we got really close to making an offer on a patio villa in Sunset Pointe. It was in the villa neighborhood that is very close to Cane. A great location. But because it was a second home decision and because we had responsibilities elsewhere, we decided to not be in a hurry.

But I have continued to be interested.

When we were there recently, we seriously considered a very nice courtyard villa in a great location.

I also think sometimes about buying on the historic side because the pace there is lovely. And buying there can work really well for snowbirds. So that is on my radar, too.

And then I even think sometimes about buying a ranch or a designer. But for owning two -- that could get pretty expensive. And I really do not think anybody is ever going to hire Mr. Boomer and me again for good jobs. (And besides when somebody hires you they always expect you to show up on certain days and at certain times and oh, your know how that goes...or went.) So I am pretty cognizant of cash and cashflow.

And then I think....ohwhattheheck, just rent for a year and figure it all out.

But whatever, I am getting closer to a decision. It is time to do SOMETHING! Ohio is ugly stuff in winter.

Anyway, I really do value the thoughts of those here on TOTV. And I know that so many of you have sought the same answers as I am seeking with this thread I started. And you bought and you are glad you bought. I just would like to understand a little more about the specifics of governance.

Boomer

PS: Hi Gracie, when I started to hit send I looked and saw your post just now. I know what you mean. And I have thought that, too.

And PPS: Oh my goodness! I just looked again and saw more kind and helpful comments coming in. Thank you coach and Pturner and Donna2 and ssmith. Thank you. Thank you. And please keep them coming.

[swrinfla]

Boomer:

coach has it pretty right, I think. I've also been here five years and everything just keeps on growing! The Developer may have a reputation for being greedy, but he also knows on which side his bread is buttered!

When he tires of TV, the existing quasi-governmental organization that runs the Lifestyle will remain, as will all the fun and games.

SWR

[Donna2]

Originally Posted by swrinfla

Boomer:

coach has it pretty right, I think. I've also been here five years and everything just keeps on growing! The Developer may have a reputation for being greedy, but he also knows on which side his bread is buttered!

When he tires of TV, the existing quasi-governmental organization that runs the Lifestyle will remain, as will all the fun and games.

SWR

Not to be picky but do you think it is accurate or fair to "say" that he is "greedy" on a message board? Seems that he had a vision and alot of people bought into it.

[Chi-Town]

Visited Sun City Center outside of Tampa for two days last year. It is a built out Del Webb Sun City that has had other builders since Del Webb left. WCI was the latest one and was developing villas and premier style homes. They also built a new country club and and were running it along with three or so other clubs. WCI went bankrupt and is trying to finish off selling their inventory of lots and homes. It is also getting out of the management business as far as anything in Sun City Center goes.

What a mess. If this happened in The Villages you would have to join Havana or Glenview or Nancy Lopez, etc. and pay each a steep membership and dues. The neighborhoods have become factionized, half is now an historic section (I don't like that term), everything closes at 8:00, and there are no town squares, only a fairly run down business district.

Could this happen at The Villages? I think not. The infrastructure is much stronger and the clientele is much more in touch and demanding (in a good way). One thing though, an aggressive POA is a necessity during the transition. That should be no problem. I would not have bought in The Villages had I thought otherwise. Boomer, come on down!

[Russ_Boston]

The future is one of the reasons we've decided to buy LESS home in TV than we were originally thinking about. We're not loaded and I'll still be working in TV for 10 years or so.

If TV goes under (my guess would be no) then at least we're not out the 400 or 500K we were originally thinking about. Now we are thinking around the 250K area for a home. If we lose some value then so be it. At least we'll be happy until then!

The search continues!

[villages07]

Boomer...good question. I have read everything I could find on the Villages and asked anyone who I thought had some inside knowledge. With all that, I was very comfortable making the decision to buy here (even when we hit the peak of the housing market in Summer '06). My only concern then and it is still lingering just a bit..... is this lifestyle and this beautiful community sustainable over the long term at costs comparable to today's very affordable fees? I bought at age 51 so, the Good Lord willin', I'm looking at a potential of 30+ years here.

I believe that final buildout is at least 5 years away. As long as new homes are being built and sold, the lifestyle, the amenities, the developer-supported stuff (entertainment, polo, etc) goes on as well as always, if not better. Buildout could be 5 years, or 8 or 10..who knows?

Governance: The residential (aka numbered) Central Development Districts (CDD's) are in place and grow as new building grows. In older districts, the elected board is all homeowners, in newer districts a mix of elected homeowners and supervisors appointed by the developer. TV is much more like a mini-city than an HOA. We have professional city planner types and a robust organization in place to negotiate contracts, formulate budgets, invest funds, etc. The supervisors provide direction but the guidance and execution is done by professionals. This includes common area landscaping, recreational trails, common lighting, maintenance of the common infrastructure.

There are two central CDDs, comprised of supervisors appointed by the Developer from among the commercial landowners. The central CDDs oversee the amenity budget, purchase of amenities from the Developer, prioritization of amenity maintenance and enhancement projects, etc. Just within the past year, there is now an elected resident Amenity Authority Committe (for north of 466) that provides recommendations to the central CDDs on policies and projects. This, to me, is the stickier issue as far as the future. After buildout, will the amenity fees be sufficient to sustain, operate, and enhance the amenities while also paying down the debt to purchase them from the Developer? We know the fees will continue to creep up as inflation/cost of living rises. Will the Developer still be around or will he sell out to ResortQuest or some other management company? There are some unknowns here and perhaps some risk. Janet Tutt, the general manager for residential and numbered CDDs, has said many times that this CDD form of government is the best solution for future sustainability. Time will tell.

Much of our future fortunes do lie with the fate of the Developer. I've called him/it a benevolent dictator before. Yes, the Morse family are business people first and foremost and quite frankly, very good at what they do. TV took a lot of vision and a lot of guts and I don't begrudge them reaping the rewards. Gary Morse, now 70+ is the visionary in the family. Fortunately, his 3 children seemed to have adopted his work ethic and vision and run 3 of the major departments...construction, sales, and design. Their children are also now starting into the various related businesses. One of my hopes is the family has great pride in their legacy and will do what's best to sustain the uniqueness and positive reputation of the villages (while still making money). Just as Bill Gates and Warren Buffet discovered, there's only so much money one can make before you start looking for other ways to leave a legacy.

I personally hope the family does stay as the overall developer and continues to exert influence over TV and Sumter County.

Music in the squares sustains local businesses...so, it will probably continue is some way, shape or form.

Supposedly, the lifelong learning college takes in enough revenue to cover its expenses.

Amenity fees are not so much invested as spent (maybe there is a reserve fund, but, I don't recall seeing that). Spent to operate, pay salaries, spent to pay down the bond debt used to purchase them, spent to do upgrades and repairs (e.g. refurbishing of La Hacienda, Paradise rec center, buying new chairs for Belvedere pool, etc).

My, my...an almost Boomeresque lengthy reply.

In short, like Gracie said, time's a wasting....buy what you can afford, get here sooner than later, and enjoy what life has to offer you. And, you know, this is still a pretty fun place to be in the middle of August. You'd be surprised how much 'off season' time you might spend here. I think the investment is pretty darn safe for at least 10 years and then who knows? So many other natural, global, financial, personal things can happen between now and then to screw it all up anyway. Seize the day!!!

[NJblue]

I agree with Villages07's post. While I'm a relative newbie here, I have had the opportunity to participate in the Resident Academy which is a 6-week course going into the details of the operation of the CDD (http://www.districtgov.org/ResidentAcademy.aspx) . A similar question about the future of TV after build-out came up in the thread about the performing arts center. This is how I responded to that one:

There are two aspects to this concern: 1) the amenities that are paid for by our amenity fees (exec. golf, rec centers, pools, etc.) and 2) all the things that some think are "amenities" but are actually paid for by the developer (the entertainment in the squares, Katie Bells, Savannah Center, Church on the Square, life long learning college, championship golf).

In the case of the first category, I believe that these are self sustaining based on our amenity fees. All of the amenities north of 466 as well as a portion of those south of it are already turned over to the CDD. The books for these are open to the public and do not show any subsidization. From comments that I heard at the Resident Academy that I attended, the CDD is looking forward to the transfer of the remaining amenities south of 466 into it domain since the revenue flow from the amenity fees will more than offset the money that the developer currently pays to the CDD to run these amenities. Hence, this category of amenity seems to be pretty safe from any big surprises at build out.

The second category, however, could be a different story. For example, are the rents that the developer charges the businesses in the squares sufficient to also pay for the nightly entertainment? Or, does he kick in a large amount to subsidize the entertainment and rationalize it as a marketing expense. Same goes with all of the other "amenities" that fall into the second category. The obvious risk for this category is that if these are not self-sustaining endeavors, when the marketing rationale goes away, will these subsidies continue? My very uneducated guess is that these will be continued in some way or another after build out because either they are 1) self sustaining, or 2) the developer will take a pride in maintaining the atmosphere in the town that his family has built, or 3) the developer will be afraid of law suits for breech of contract where his marketing message was an implicit contract to offer these amenities into the future.

As to the proposed performing arts center, it clearly would fall into the second category. My guess is that the developer may be luke warm (at best) about it for fear that it will not be self sustaining and that he will then be forced to either subsidize it indefinitely or open himself up to lawsuits if residents try to make a claim that it was part of the "package" that they bought into.

The CDD operates under the sunshine laws that apply to any governmental agency. Hence all meetings and account books are open to public scrutiny. If you want to put on your green eye shades and look at the financials as well as the auditor's views for the various districts, they can be found under the "Your Districts" link at the top of this page:http://www.districtgov.org/yourdistr...px?district=sl
From a quick look at the auditor's statement, it looks like the two central districts are improving year over year, so this is positive from a sustainability perspective.


As we were going through the various line items in our class, the only thing that stuck out to me was cash flow for the fitness centers. It turns out that the revenue that they are taking in for these centers greatly exceeds the operational costs. They have set up a special account for this so the capital buildup will not be commingled with the general budget. I'm not sure what the plans are for these funds but to the untrained eye, it looks like they could easily reduce what they charge for the membership and still break even (there seems to be more than enough for equipment replacement). However, from a sustainability perspective, this is good news.

[David (in Ohio)]

Boomer, I certainly understand all of your concerns. I too had many of your questions to ask. I am the worry-wart in our family. I think the replys to your post are very accurate, however no one can give you a guarantee. I have learned you can't worry about "what if's".
I feel the lifestyle in TV is worth any risk. I also live in cold snowy Ohio . We purchased a CYV in Pennecamp in December. We have no regrets and thats all we talk about every day. The only regret is I won't retire for two years plus and we can't move today.
You have legitimate concerns but I feel the "what if" risk is worth it. Good luck on making your decision.