[dadspet]

Sorry for a serious post but I really need advice!

I have a classic car at a large local shop being painted for over 16 months. The owners estimate was a fixed price and 2 to 3 months completion. The shop has missed more completion dates than I can list here and my weekly visits show lies and minimal progress toward completion. He has already told me “pay me what I owe him (?) and take your car someplace else”. Unacceptable / Impossible I've told him. I've reached the end of my patience and his excuses. I'm close to filing a complaint with the Better Business Bureau but If the BBB does result in a satisfactory solution I suspect I will need a lawyer. I would clearly prefer not to go down these paths but he is leaving me with no options.
BTW he isn't wanting for and parts (minimal part such as new rubber all provided by me) and there has been very minimal body work required.

Any recommendation for a good lawyer for a case like this?

Or even a shop that would tackle putting the car back together - its 90% painted (10% are under bonnet details, firewall, bracing, air cleaners, spare tire area, etc) and beautiful?

[LAFwUs]

I've had the same thing happen on TWO vehicles,
a mustang frame off resto & vintage gen 1 bronco. Two different shops.
Painters/body work guys are never, ever done within their stated completion date. Him stating 2-3 months was fantasy. He maybe just having labor / supply shortages like everyone else, or he's sandbagging you. Only you can determine that.

Before you head down the path of retaining an attorney, some things you may need to consider.

If you do, he can & probably will, place a mechanics lien on the car for services rendered/payment due, for work completed thus far. He can do that without your knowledge, even if he releases the car to you.

Understand that if you request the current invoice, so you can take the car elsewhere, that bill will be well padded. If you choose not to pay the padded invoice, you will not get your car back and its perfectly legal.
He can also, at that point, begin charging you 'storage' fees, under the guise of the car is no longer his problem (contract to complete terminated), since he is no longer employed to work on it. This can lead to other issues (missing parts, neglect, damage, etc)
He can also make it nearly impossible for you to actually then retrieve the car. (never available, parking it in the back of the shop buried behind other vehicles, not putting the car back together enough to be a roller, relocating it to "his other shop", etc)
I'm not saying, to not get an attorney, but it may only complicate things at this point, if he thinks you are going down the legal rabbit hole. He actually has the upper hand to make your life really hard, leaving you to deal with the aftermath, so to speak.
Consider a softer approach.
You could attempt to get the car back, by saying it has to go to another shop for other pre-slatted work (like upholstery, or glass, whatever) or simply state, that 'your out of money' and need to fold back for a bit before the wife divorces you, but will be back, just in order for him to release the car to you without hostilities or overcharges.
This worked on my mustang fiasco, although it took some tip toeing and patience.

The BBB is utterly powerless. They have zero enforcement authority, other than strongly worded letters and a complaint report posted on their website. Few businesses, especially shady ones with an already bad rep & unhappy customer base, actually care about the BBB or their ratings.
Now: facebook, yelp and car club/forums however can have great affect in warning others of a shops bad behavior, if things end up there. That bad rep could be unrecoverable for a small business, something I would make him well aware of - again, if things go that far sideways.
No matter what though, document everything and try and stay on the legal side of things - in case it does go to court.
I understand all too well the frustration.

[villagetinker]

OP, You can also try Seniors against Crime (a division of the FL attorney General), they may be able to help or at least provide some additional suggestions. Small claims court may be useful I have no actual experience in this area..

[Rapscallion St Croix]

Expect same level of satisfaction from BBB.

[pauld315]

2-3 months ? I had my classic car painted and it was completed in less than a week. Why don't you name the garage so others don't make the same mistake? I didn't have it originally done here but I have taken it to Dom's in Leesburg when I needed it to have part of it redone due to a rock skipping across the hood and he matched the color perfectly. Can't even tell.

[DAVES]

Originally Posted by dadspet

Sorry for a serious post but I really need advice!

I have a classic car at a large local shop being painted for over 16 months. The owners estimate was a fixed price and 2 to 3 months completion. The shop has missed more completion dates than I can list here and my weekly visits show lies and minimal progress toward completion. He has already told me “pay me what I owe him (?) and take your car someplace else”. Unacceptable / Impossible I've told him. I've reached the end of my patience and his excuses. I'm close to filing a complaint with the Better Business Bureau but If the BBB does result in a satisfactory solution I suspect I will need a lawyer. I would clearly prefer not to go down these paths but he is leaving me with no options.
BTW he isn't wanting for and parts (minimal part such as new rubber all provided by me) and there has been very minimal body work required.

Any recommendation for a good lawyer for a case like this?

Or even a shop that would tackle putting the car back together - its 90% painted (10% are under bonnet details, firewall, bracing, air cleaners, spare tire area, etc) and beautiful?

OUCH. A lawyer will cost you like $300 an hour. Translation a lot of money. Apart and 90% painted. We have no way to appraise. Properly painted? Does the shop have ALL the parts?
Hey Louie where did you put the trim, the hardware, anyone remember how to put it together?

The post sounds like the shop refuses to finish the job. It also sounds like the shop expects you to pay for the entire quoted price for an incomplete job. That 90% painted and 10% details, it sounds like someone is thinking to settle the bill for 90% of the quote. I expect that remaining 10% will cost far more than 10%. I expect the original shop has lost parts and can't find them.

I would go to the shop SEE reality and then negotiate a deal fair to you and the shop. An attorney will cost you a couple of grand. I don't think you want to force the shop to complete the job since they have lost you faith in them.

[Keefelane66]

Originally Posted by dadspet

Sorry for a serious post but I really need advice!

I have a classic car at a large local shop being painted for over 16 months. The owners estimate was a fixed price and 2 to 3 months completion. The shop has missed more completion dates than I can list here and my weekly visits show lies and minimal progress toward completion. He has already told me “pay me what I owe him (?) and take your car someplace else”. Unacceptable / Impossible I've told him. I've reached the end of my patience and his excuses. I'm close to filing a complaint with the Better Business Bureau but If the BBB does result in a satisfactory solution I suspect I will need a lawyer. I would clearly prefer not to go down these paths but he is leaving me with no options.
BTW he isn't wanting for and parts (minimal part such as new rubber all provided by me) and there has been very minimal body work required.

Any recommendation for a good lawyer for a case like this?

Or even a shop that would tackle putting the car back together - its 90% painted (10% are under bonnet details, firewall, bracing, air cleaners, spare tire area, etc) and beautiful?

For a 2-3 month contracted project why would you wait 16 months to complain?

[Shbullet]

The op is already hurting, your comment isn't helping him whatsoever

[DAVES]

Originally Posted by villagetinker

OP, You can also try Seniors against Crime (a division of the FL attorney General), they may be able to help or at least provide some additional suggestions. Small claims court may be useful I have no actual experience in this area..

I've used small claims court, NOT IN FLORIDA, and won both times. I collected both times, that is unusual in small claims court. Many people win but then can't collect.

I, NOT IN FLORIDA , paid like $20 to file the case. In Florida they charge far more than that and they charge more as the dollar amount of the case goes up.

Again, NOT IN FLORIDA, people at the small claims court refused to offer any help. At the far higher fees people at the court may be more helpful.

A very common mistake, you sue the wrong person-corporation. It might say on the invoice, Joe Smith inc but it is actually in his wife's name or his dead dog's name. Small claims is a lot of work. MOST IMPORTANT-the idea is to COLLECT. You can bet the business owner has a lot more experience in small claims court than you do. A corporation, you will likely be facing his attorney.

Others have suggested the OP supply the name of the business. Were it me I would use that as a threat. The threat may be more powerful than any actual damage you MIGHT be able to do to their business. As stated in my original reply, I would try to negotiate it.
Best time to do this is in person when there are lots of customers there. Be polite but be loud so that other customers see how he handles your issue.

[Topspinmo]

I don’t understand why buy something old and can’t work on it or have the knowledge or skill to do basic assembly? If you got to pay someone to do every little thing it’s going to be expensive. Good luck with law suit. They guy will hundreds of excuses and I suspect Covid being the number 1.

[dadspet]

Originally Posted by Topspinmo

I don’t understand why buy something old and can’t work on it or have the knowledge or skill to do basic assembly? If you got to pay someone to do every little thing it’s going to be expensive. Good luck with law suit. They guy will hundreds of excuses and I suspect Covid being the number 1.

WOW WOW I wasn't going to respond to this and perhaps I shouldn't but I couldn't let it just pass by without some clarifications that are not clearly relative to my post!

The 71 XKE Jag car was purchased in 1975 and I actually did most of the work required on the car as a hobby that didn't require heavy lifting. That included: repainting the car myself, rebuilding and sync 4 carburetors, replacing the electronic ignition and more replacing of trim/rubber than I care to mention along with a lot of polishing after working probably 50 to 60 hrs / week and Saturdays for a very technical company along with raising 3 children.
Believe me when I say after aging 47 years I physically cant do the things I could do 47 years ago-I wish I could. But besides that why would I want to try and put the car back together (put heavy doors back, all window glass, all the chrome parts, gas tank, all the rubber molding, seats, side panel trim, rugs and underlayment, wiring harness to front and back lights) When the shop took it apart and was supposed to put it back together as part of the original estimate. I got to believe anyone would expect their car to be put back together in the same way it went into the shop and not returned unassembled in several pieces with boxes of parts, especially to someone over 80. This doesn't seem really hard to understand!

To answer a few other previous points brought up.

This is not a small fly by night shop. They are a large certified body shop for at least 10 manufactures and very busy. The work required to do a car like mine far exceeds the average collusion insurance job he easily can do in a day or 2. He has told me he will not do anymore classic restorations since they just take too much work and has told a few cars he already had in his shop but not started he will no longer do these types of cars and take them someplace else. If you have a modern car he is certified in I got a feeling you will be very happy with the shop and if you don't and he sticks with his story he isn't going to take in you car.

The work/paint job they have done so far is beautiful and recently he has sent me photos of the work progression toward putting it back together which left me very hopeful that after my last visit a week ago he has perhaps got more serious and will complete it far enough to take to the upholstery shop. I do believe the completed car will be great and I have been trying to understand his problems (covid, hiring qualified, injury's, trying to do a really good job requiring much more time than insurance jobs, others in shop need their car back since its their only car and they have a rental) Keeping my fingers/toes crossed and trying to keep a good relationship with the shop --but running out of patients.

[Altavia]

Just a thought, maybe some of his guys would want to work on it after hours or weekends if you provide bonus/overtime pay (or cash)?

Feel you pain - good luck!

[drpepper]

A body or collision shop uses restoration work as fill in work when there aren't enough insurance jobs. The problem is that the insurance work is very lucrative and restoration work isn't unless done on an hourly basis so when insurance business picks up your car goes to the back of the line. I've made the same mistake as you did and it is frustrating. Taking it to a shop that specializes in restoration work will help you get the car back quicker but be prepared to spend way more than the guesstimate they give you. There are many guys that intended to spend x and ended up spending triple x.

[DAVES]

Originally Posted by dadspet

WOW WOW I wasn't going to respond to this and perhaps I shouldn't but I couldn't let it just pass by without some clarifications that are not clearly relative to my post!

The 71 XKE Jag car was purchased in 1975 and I actually did most of the work required on the car as a hobby that didn't require heavy lifting. That included: repainting the car myself, rebuilding and sync 4 carburetors, replacing the electronic ignition and more replacing of trim/rubber than I care to mention along with a lot of polishing after working probably 50 to 60 hrs / week and Saturdays for a very technical company along with raising 3 children.
Believe me when I say after aging 47 years I physically cant do the things I could do 47 years ago-I wish I could. But besides that why would I want to try and put the car back together (put heavy doors back, all window glass, all the chrome parts, gas tank, all the rubber molding, seats, side panel trim, rugs and underlayment, wiring harness to front and back lights) When the shop took it apart and was supposed to put it back together as part of the original estimate. I got to believe anyone would expect their car to be put back together in the same way it went into the shop and not returned unassembled in several pieces with boxes of parts, especially to someone over 80. This doesn't seem really hard to understand!

To answer a few other previous points brought up.

This is not a small fly by night shop. They are a large certified body shop for at least 10 manufactures and very busy. The work required to do a car like mine far exceeds the average collusion insurance job he easily can do in a day or 2. He has told me he will not do anymore classic restorations since they just take too much work and has told a few cars he already had in his shop but not started he will no longer do these types of cars and take them someplace else. If you have a modern car he is certified in I got a feeling you will be very happy with the shop and if you don't and he sticks with his story he isn't going to take in you car.

The work/paint job they have done so far is beautiful and recently he has sent me photos of the work progression toward putting it back together which left me very hopeful that after my last visit a week ago he has perhaps got more serious and will complete it far enough to take to the upholstery shop. I do believe the completed car will be great and I have been trying to understand his problems (covid, hiring qualified, injury's, trying to do a really good job requiring much more time than insurance jobs, others in shop need their car back since its their only car and they have a rental) Keeping my fingers/toes crossed and trying to keep a good relationship with the shop --but running out of patients.

Far more information here than in original post. This site is in many cases a gossip line. My mother and sister used to read Ann Landers and her sister, can't recall her name. My advice, realize as in Ann Landers people offer advice. In the end you must decide what to do. Should it go bad. Should it cost you money advice givers may say sorry to hear that.

"Trying to keep a good relationship with the shop," I was trying to help. Original post asks for an attorney. Putting pieces together. You feel it has become necessary to calling an attorney on them. Plus the fact that they don't want, any longer to work on older cars. There is no relationship to save

[tophcfa]

Easy solution, take the car out for a ride, go really slow and wait for someone to start tailgating you, slam on the brakes so they rear end you, and call Attorney Dan Newlin.