[Garywt]

Was at the doctors today and he was telling me that 10 of his vaccinated patients got sick and 2 died. The vaccine is not mixing well with certain blood cancers, mine being one of them. So moving forward I was told to take all precautions as if I never had the vaccine. So status quo for me.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Garywt

Was at the doctors today and he was telling me that 10 of his vaccinated patients got sick and 2 died. The vaccine is not mixing well with certain blood cancers, mine being one of them. So moving forward I was told to take all precautions as if I never had the vaccine. So status quo for me.

According to the CDC, as of April 30th, out of 101 million fully vaccinated individuals, there were 10,262 breakthrough cases (=0.01%). Of these approx. 10% were hospitalized (1,026) and 2% died (205= .0002%). According to the CDC, "many" of the deaths were UNRELATED to COVID-19.

So, assuming your doctor has an average practice of 2000 patients and half of them were fully vaccinated (reasonable assumptions), he would have had 10/1000 contract COVID after vaccination (50 times the national rate) and 2/1000 die (0.2% or 1000 times the national rate). Something doesn't sound right at all.

[Kenswing]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

According to the CDC, as of April 30th, out of 101 million fully vaccinated individuals, there were 10,262 breakthrough cases (=0.02%). Of these approx. 10% were hospitalized (1,026) and 2% died (205= .0002%). According to the CDC, "many" of the deaths were UNRELATED to COVID-19.

So, assuming your doctor has an average practice of 2000 patients and half of them were fully vaccinated (reasonable assumptions), he would have had 10/1000 contract COVID after vaccination (50 times the national rate) and 2/1000 die (0.2% or 1000 times the national rate). Something doesn't sound right at all.

I believe he's talking specifically about cancer patients with certain types of cancer.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Kenswing

I believe he's talking specifically about cancer patients with certain types of cancer.

Thanks, I believe I gathered that. But even IF his physician is an oncologist, and IF he was only seeing patients with active disease, there is no concrete evidence that the vaccine is substantially less effective in those with hematologic malignancies, over and above the immunosuppression that goes with those disorders, and certainly not at 1000 times the national rate in general.

[Kenswing]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Thanks, I believe I gathered that. But even IF his physician is an oncologist, and IF he was only seeing patients with active disease, there is no concrete evidence that the vaccine is substantially less effective in those with hematologic malignancies, over and above the immunosuppression that goes with those disorders, and certainly not at 1000 times the national rate in general.

Easy there feller.. He's just relaying what his doctor told him.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Kenswing

Easy there feller.. He's just relaying what his doctor told him.

I gathered that as well. All I did was comment that , on the face of it, the numbers just didn't sound right.

I didn't even get into the fact that the OP wearing a mask does almost nothing to protect him

[clekr]

Read Faucci's emails. He told a colleague "those cloth masks ... are useless..."

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by clekr

Read Faucci's emails. He told a colleague "those cloth masks ... are useless..."

Old news. It's no secret that masks were generally useless to protect an individual. They do a great deal to protect others from an infected person by limiting the spread of respiratory droplets.

[clekr]

You don't need protection from droplets. You're seeking protection from the virus. For which they are deemed "useless" by the "expert".

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by clekr

You don't need protection from droplets. You're seeking protection from the virus. For which they are deemed "useless" by the "expert".

But as far as a sneeze, cough or even a yell go, the virus is carried by droplets

[Velvet]

Wear an n95 mask if you wear one, Gary. That is more likely to protect you and you don’t need to double mask either. I’m so used to it I have to remind myself to take it off outside etc.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Garywt

Was at the doctors today and he was telling me that 10 of his vaccinated patients got sick and 2 died. The vaccine is not mixing well with certain blood cancers, mine being one of them. So moving forward I was told to take all precautions as if I never had the vaccine. So status quo for me.

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

According to the CDC, as of April 30th, out of 101 million fully vaccinated individuals, there were 10,262 breakthrough cases (=0.01%). Of these approx. 10% were hospitalized (1,026) and 2% died (205= .0002%). According to the CDC, "many" of the deaths were UNRELATED to COVID-19.

So, assuming your doctor has an average practice of 2000 patients and half of them were fully vaccinated (reasonable assumptions), he would have had 10/1000 contract COVID after vaccination (50 times the national rate) and 2/1000 die (0.2% or 1000 times the national rate). Something doesn't sound right at all.

This may help explain the discrepancy in numbers, from The Lancet:

"Authorised COVID-19 vaccines are safe and effective in the general population. Given the high case fatality rate among patients with haematological conditions, prioritisation of COVID-19 vaccines for this group might appear straightforward. However, common to these vaccines is the exclusion of immunocompromised people from landmark phase 3 randomised controlled trials. Relevant exclusion criteria included the use of immunosuppressive or immunomodulatory agents, immunoglobulin or blood products, asplenia, and autoimmune conditions such as immune thrombocytopenic purpura. Most patients with haematological conditions, therefore, would have been ineligible for these trials. Until COVID-19 vaccines have been rigorously studied in this group, one must examine available data on the immune response to COVID-19 infection and non-COVID-19 vaccines to inform clinical practice and expectations.

Haematological conditions and their treatment are heterogeneous, and so the immune response to infection or vaccination is also expected to be variable. A case series reported 14 (67%) of 21 patients with chronic lymphocytic leukaemia developed IgG antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 nucleocapsid.3 Those who did not develop antibodies included both treatment-naive patients and patients receiving chronic lymphocytic leukaemia-directed therapy. The seroconversion rate among recipients of haematopoietic stem-cell transplantation and chimeric antigen receptor T-cell therapy was similar at 66% (25 of 38 patients).4 Intriguingly, B-cell lymphopenia in these patients did not preclude an antibody response to SARS-CoV-2. In acute leukaemia, antibodies against the external spike glycoprotein and internal nucleocapsid were detected in seven (88%) of eight patients.5 Besides a lower rate of antibody production, the humoral response in patients with haematological conditions is also slower than in the general population. SARS-CoV-2-specific cellular immunity in this group still needs to be characterised."

Translation for the non-professional:

We just don't know the breakthrough rate for fully vaccinated individuals with hematologic malignancies. However, since antibodies to the spike protein were measurable in only 88%, it is theoretically possible to have a breakthrough rate approaching that, but in the real world is probably much lower. However, that would still be over 100 times less effective than it is in the general population

[Becca9800]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

According to the CDC, "many" of the deaths were UNRELATED to COVID-19. Something doesn't sound right at all.

100% agree, something doesn't sound right. These deaths are unrelated to having Covid. And we're to just accept this? It was Covid that killed 100s of thousands but not in these cases. Call me skeptical.

@Garywt, What a tough spot to be in, do what you have to do. I wish you only the best.

[Taltarzac725]

The Villages Rehab and Nursing Center when we visited them in the Fall of 2020 had given approved visitors face shields and also had us wear face masks. Rehabilitation, Skilled Nursing Care, Post Surgical Care in Lady Lake FL

I would often use both in the Fall and early Spring if out shopping or elsewhere.

Do not use either now as I and my family members have all had two shots of the antivirus for COVID-19.

[coralway]

Originally Posted by Garywt

Was at the doctors today and he was telling me that 10 of his vaccinated patients got sick and 2 died. The vaccine is not mixing well with certain blood cancers, mine being one of them. So moving forward I was told to take all precautions as if I never had the vaccine. So status quo for me.

The remaining eight need to find a new doctor.