[beckylou152]

Originally Posted by Retired55

This is a different view on an AED program that a group on Facebook is implementing, for the Village of Newell. It is a view no one on Facebook in the Group will comment on for fear of being outcast or attacked. That’s why its being posted here. This is not meant to attack the organizers or anyone who supports or has donated to the program. The organizer has mentioned to the group that some people where opposed to the Program but they do not understand why.

The group wants to install 25 AED devices throughout the Village, and is asking $100 per household.

First, the AED devises are a great Lifesaving tool and I think they are wonderful as I am also certified to operate one. But the program itself is not the issue.

Simply said, a Facebook group should not be making decisions for the entire Village, no matter how good or well meaning the project is. It is just a Facebook group; no one voted anyone in for this. It has created a situation where you are making people uncomfortable and pitting one side against another. This should not happen. The group is aggressively collecting money by going door to door, setting up tables at the mail and rec centers and other ways. Some people do not appreciate that and shouldn't have to explain why they do not want to contribute.

The Village of Newell is a beautiful community, with friendly neighbors who look out for each other and enjoy each others company. While this program is very thoughtful and well meaning, please understand that there may be some neighbors who do not agree, for their own reasons.

I'm sure money can be an issue with some people, and they shouldn’t have to explain that to anyone, or be made uncomfortable because of it.

There are lots of questions about the program itself but that is for a different conversation and is not really relevant to this view.

Please, this is just a different view not an argument.

I am curios what others in the Villages have to say on the issue.

Retired

These programs are commonly established with the goal of saving lives. I would thank those who are putting in the work (it is a lot) to get this done. If you personally don’t want to contribute, just don’t. They will still try to save your life if you need it someday. I’m confused why this would pit neighbors against each other. If this is so horrible, perhaps ask the AED committee to hold a neighborhood meeting if they haven’t already.

[asianthree]

Originally Posted by vinnytalk

They have the right to organize whatever they want ,your option is to either join or not, but if you don't they may not come to your aid if you need it one day.

Why is this troubling you?

So just a thought do YOU really think a Volunteer gets a 3am call, then turns on lights pulls out a sheet and says “Not on the I paid List” and goes back to bed?

Real concern do you think a 75yo volunteer even properly trained delivers correct comprehension and rhythm for possibly up to 10 minutes until help arrives.

One can’t count on the spouse standing there because most likely they’re either in shock or not of helping.

I would love to see yearly CPR classes with high tech Annie, that announces your compression is not correct, and you need to correct your rhythm.

Twice a year it was a pain ReCert class for us. Since weekly we performed on humans, but always brought in perspective how even trained staff that can do CPR and fire up AED units and still need tweaking.

Major reason why I retired because I fractured my humerus head. First day I was to return to work I requested, Annie, I performed CPR and four set not accomplishing but coming close. I returned second day performing four sets on Annie. I was very close, but in my mind if it was less than perfect would always wonder alone in that dark hall could I save that person.
Management reminded me I was always with multiple people in OR I was good. I chose not to return. So you will not see me as a volunteer on programs here.

[mntlblok]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

Maybe you should take the AED training to find out how it’s really done.

What knowledge might I gain that would make a difference with the points I raised? What is it that I've led you to believe that I don't already know? TIA

[G.R.I.T.S.]

Originally Posted by Retired55

This is a different view on an AED program that a group on Facebook is implementing, for the Village of Newell. It is a view no one on Facebook in the Group will comment on for fear of being outcast or attacked. That’s why its being posted here. This is not meant to attack the organizers or anyone who supports or has donated to the program. The organizer has mentioned to the group that some people where opposed to the Program but they do not understand why.

The group wants to install 25 AED devices throughout the Village, and is asking $100 per household.

First, the AED devises are a great Lifesaving tool and I think they are wonderful as I am also certified to operate one. But the program itself is not the issue.

Simply said, a Facebook group should not be making decisions for the entire Village, no matter how good or well meaning the project is. It is just a Facebook group; no one voted anyone in for this. It has created a situation where you are making people uncomfortable and pitting one side against another. This should not happen. The group is aggressively collecting money by going door to door, setting up tables at the mail and rec centers and other ways. Some people do not appreciate that and shouldn't have to explain why they do not want to contribute.

The Village of Newell is a beautiful community, with friendly neighbors who look out for each other and enjoy each others company. While this program is very thoughtful and well meaning, please understand that there may be some neighbors who do not agree, for their own reasons.

I'm sure money can be an issue with some people, and they shouldn’t have to explain that to anyone, or be made uncomfortable because of it.

There are lots of questions about the program itself but that is for a different conversation and is not really relevant to this view.

Please, this is just a different view not an argument.

I am curios what others in the Villages have to say on the issue.

Retired

I don’t think they are necessary. My call to 911 had EMTs in my kitchen in 5 minutes. Not enough time for a neighbor to be dispatched with an AED. We declined years ago to participate and haven’t been disparaged.

[edtherock]

Yes cpr and aed’s are for maybe two different conditions. As mentioned 20 years in our village, many many AED,s on each street, many batteries replaced, lots of money etc and not a single ones used! I know personally of 1 case in the last 2 months that CPR brought back the person to life that had stopped breathing. ( that person later had tripled bypass surgery). Now the question: How many people’s lives have been saved by these AED’s that are being controlled by the Villagers? If we believe that even one persons life can be saved by the AED’s that The Villagers manage and that it is worth it , then we should have epi pens for severe reactions that stop people from breathing. We should have Narcan and the list goes on and on. So where does it stop? The better value is to teach everybody CPR in the village! It works everywhere, even places AED’s are not located.
Have a good beer!

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by mntlblok

What knowledge might I gain that would make a difference with the points I raised? What is it that I've led you to believe that I don't already know? TIA

Because you asked the questions..............................

[Marathon Man]

Originally Posted by mntlblok

What knowledge might I gain that would make a difference with the points I raised? What is it that I've led you to believe that I don't already know? TIA

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

[/U][/B]

Because you asked the questions..............................

I agree with Bogie. But more importantly, if you do not believe that you can accomplish a lifesaving activity, then simply don't volunteer. But why question a program that has saved several lives over the years here in TV? The neighborhood EMT programs here terrific. I am proud to be a volunteer responder. And yes, that includers coming to your aide if needed.

[mntlblok]

Originally Posted by pokeefe45@aol.com

I have always feared that having a complete 'AED' program would be a barrier for anyone to actually learn and practice CPR-The mention in another reply about a Village having had AED's for 20 years without ANY use is eye-opening-Are we able to gather any facts from VPSD about the existing programs? And how do we educate people to ensure CPR is the initial response and ensure we have a neighborhood filled with residents trained in CPR? I'm just a 'little dawg' in Lake Denham-but your posts are making sense to me-How do we engage and redirect now before it's too late? Noone is ill intentioned-but maybe ill-informed?

Good questions. The thread has sent me googling for additional info. 3 minutes looks to be an important cutoff level for successful outcomes. There are unsuccessful outcomes other than death. This makes me suspect that having them at places like Rec centers is a fine idea with plenty of potential for benefit.

*If* having them in less accessible areas with fewer folks in the vicinity and/or likely to be able to utilize them in time would mean a greater chance for having more folks surviving with brain damage, then that debate might be worth having. My wife knows *my* preferences for such a situation. Even has it in writing.

On another note, just read that a patient with ventricular fibrillation or "pulseless" ventricular tachycardia might still be breathing. While it's not likely to be "normal" breathing, I certainly don't feel trained enough to decide whether one's "level" of breathing, if present, is suitable for even initiating CPR. Heck, even a patient in fibrillation can have a "pulse" of sorts. Might even retain some level of "consciousness" (I just read) - however *that's* defined. Any handy "rules of thumb" on the subject out there to share?

One last rather disturbing statistic that turned up was that 7% of those suffering SCA - sudden cardiac arrest - survive without CPR or defibrillation. No clue how *that* works. But, CPR "only" (no defibbing) jumps that number up only to 9%.

Finally, the "kind of interesting" thing I learnt was that defibrillator "shock" is for *stopping* the heart and its electrical activity. Apparently this "pause" gives it a chance to "reorganize" itself electrically speaking. Way over my head, as is fine vs. coarse ventricular fibrillation.

Oh, one more that I hadn't ever understood but had kinda wondered about! A "heart attack" (enough blockage of a coronary artery) can lead to a shut-off of normal electrical activity of the heart and SCA.

[mntlblok]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

[/U][/B]

Because you asked the questions..............................

Might want to read what I posted again if contributing is your intent.

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by mntlblok

Might want to read what I posted again if contributing is your intent.

///////

[Shipping up to Boston]

Originally Posted by Marathon Man

I agree with Bogie. But more importantly, if you do not believe that you can accomplish a lifesaving activity, then simply don't volunteer. But why question a program that has saved several lives over the years here in TV? The neighborhood EMT programs here terrific. I am proud to be a volunteer responder. And yes, that includers coming to your aide if needed.

I’ve already commented enough on this thread but one last one....the nation has a severe EMT shortage and thus longer than average response times. Some horrific cases of police having to transport as a result of said shortages/responses. So whether it’s CPR or AED, they both work in concert with each other. The unpaid volunteer groups that supplement and support EMS/Fire.....properly trained in both CPR/AED, are a welcome addition and resource to an issue that, as stated, is in need of an assist at times

[HORNET]

Sounds like a money maker for someone. Why not let each individual Village do their own thing!

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by HORNET

Sounds like a money maker for someone. Why not let each individual Village do their own thing!

Money maker? Where who….asking for a friend?

[BigDawgInLakeDenham]

Originally Posted by pokeefe45@aol.com

I have always feared that having a complete 'AED' program would be a barrier for anyone to actually learn and practice CPR-The mention in another reply about a Village having had AED's for 20 years without ANY use is eye-opening-Are we able to gather any facts from VPSD about the existing programs? And how do we educate people to ensure CPR is the initial response and ensure we have a neighborhood filled with residents trained in CPR? I'm just a 'little dawg' in Lake Denham-but your posts are making sense to me-How do we engage and redirect now before it's too late? Noone is ill intentioned-but maybe ill-informed?

Hi "little dawg"...lol! It's all good....I'm liking what I'm reading about TV AED program being controlled by the Fire Department because that's who is coming in what sounds like about 12 minutes with ETT, IV, fluids, a drug box, and a REAL defibrillator. That "about 12 minutes" before EMS arrives is the extremely important factor and why I only wanted to stress we should CALL FOR HELP AND IMMEDIATELY START CPR. When EMS eventually transports we might as well guess it's another 12 minutes to the ED, considering all the round-a-bouts...maybe longer. Not a hopeful situation for someone that has no pulse and no respirations. The AED is a tool that must be utilized but rarely effective because of the physiological processes involved in cardiac arrest. It's been suggested here that your heart is a car engine and the AED fixes electrical problems and starts your car. Sounds great but there's a reason the electrical activities can't work.... like your coronary artery disease, diabetes, smoking, blod clots, dehydration, electrolyte imbalances, previous heart attack, cardiomyopathy, CHF and on and on and on. Issues that can't be fixed with CPR and an AED.

The reality is that we're getting older and CPR is getting harder for us to maintain effectively, so we need many people trained in BLS because maintaining CPR for 12 minutes or so ain't easy. After my bilateral knee replacements I can't kneel down....(if I'm there hand me a pillow please!) By the time someone comes with the AED your compressions might already be ineffective.

My initial post was not against AED's and I don't believe the OP was complaining about AED's but was just saying ....why didn't this group address the neighborhood first? Someone suggested I should ask for a meeting of this AED committee, but I believe it would have been proper for the person that wants to lead to ask to meet with everyone first and brainstorm. Not after they've decided what they are doing. You remember the Stages of Group Development? Lol.

Pokeefe I think we should train for the AED Team and when Im there I can look into establishing neighborhood BLS training. I'm guessing the AED training is just BLS training, and absolutely everyone should train asap, but we'll find out eventually. I'm guessing they want the AED's in place first......but I will always say CPR first

[BigDawgInLakeDenham]

Originally Posted by mntlblok

Good questions. The thread has sent me googling for additional info. 3 minutes looks to be an important cutoff level for successful outcomes. There are unsuccessful outcomes other than death. This makes me suspect that having them at places like Rec centers is a fine idea with plenty of potential for benefit.

*If* having them in less accessible areas with fewer folks in the vicinity and/or likely to be able to utilize them in time would mean a greater chance for having more folks surviving with brain damage, then that debate might be worth having. My wife knows *my* preferences for such a situation. Even has it in writing.

On another note, just read that a patient with ventricular fibrillation or "pulseless" ventricular tachycardia might still be breathing. While it's not likely to be "normal" breathing, I certainly don't feel trained enough to decide whether one's "level" of breathing, if present, is suitable for even initiating CPR. Heck, even a patient in fibrillation can have a "pulse" of sorts. Might even retain some level of "consciousness" (I just read) - however *that's* defined. Any handy "rules of thumb" on the subject out there to share?

One last rather disturbing statistic that turned up was that 7% of those suffering SCA - sudden cardiac arrest - survive without CPR or defibrillation. No clue how *that* works. But, CPR "only" (no defibbing) jumps that number up only to 9%.

Finally, the "kind of interesting" thing I learnt was that defibrillator "shock" is for *stopping* the heart and its electrical activity. Apparently this "pause" gives it a chance to "reorganize" itself electrically speaking. Way over my head, as is fine vs. coarse ventricular fibrillation.

Oh, one more that I hadn't ever understood but had kinda wondered about! A "heart attack" (enough blockage of a coronary artery) can lead to a shut-off of normal electrical activity of the heart and SCA.

Mntlblok....the AED decides if it should give a shock based on VT/VF and say "SHOCK ADVISED". I guarantee you will seldom hear those words stated by the AED and why I keep saying CPR. You would not want to shock a person that is awake because you could stop their heart. You will learn about helping in certain scenarios and it's designed so everyone can learn it. The more trained help on scene the better.

I was on the receiving end in the ED as the RN doing CPR, pushing ACLS drugs, and running the defibrillator. We only saw positive outcomes when EMS was activated and CPR was immediately started. We're lucky to have Healthcare professionals amongst us bringing decades of know how....but it's on all of us to know what to do and how to do it because EMS and the ED are TOO far, at this point in time.

I just re-read all of the posts in this thread and I am disgusted by some posts that I can only assume are male Physicians claiming that no one is getting out of bed and that all Nurses are female, and the AED costs less than getting our nails done. Let me assure you than Nurses are not weak, they are all not female, and don't confront me about this post, if you are the male chauvinist pig, if you value your orbital bones.....think Laforte 4....I jest somewhat but please don't discount my female coworkers. Looks really bad on you