[Retired55]

This is a different view on an AED program that a group on Facebook is implementing, for the Village of Newell. It is a view no one on Facebook in the Group will comment on for fear of being outcast or attacked. That’s why its being posted here. This is not meant to attack the organizers or anyone who supports or has donated to the program. The organizer has mentioned to the group that some people where opposed to the Program but they do not understand why.

The group wants to install 25 AED devices throughout the Village, and is asking $100 per household.

First, the AED devises are a great Lifesaving tool and I think they are wonderful as I am also certified to operate one. But the program itself is not the issue.

Simply said, a Facebook group should not be making decisions for the entire Village, no matter how good or well meaning the project is. It is just a Facebook group; no one voted anyone in for this. It has created a situation where you are making people uncomfortable and pitting one side against another. This should not happen. The group is aggressively collecting money by going door to door, setting up tables at the mail and rec centers and other ways. Some people do not appreciate that and shouldn't have to explain why they do not want to contribute.

The Village of Newell is a beautiful community, with friendly neighbors who look out for each other and enjoy each others company. While this program is very thoughtful and well meaning, please understand that there may be some neighbors who do not agree, for their own reasons.

I'm sure money can be an issue with some people, and they shouldn’t have to explain that to anyone, or be made uncomfortable because of it.

There are lots of questions about the program itself but that is for a different conversation and is not really relevant to this view.

Please, this is just a different view not an argument.

I am curios what others in the Villages have to say on the issue.

Retired

[retiredguy123]

An AED is an "automated external defibrillator". A lot of posters seem to think that everyone is familiar with the same acronyms that they use. They are not.

I wouldn't pay $100 unless every resident agreed to pay the same amount, and actually paid it. Also, why should a single person pay $100, but a couple only pays $50 each? What about a larger household? I doubt that they will be able to collect enough money to buy 25 AEDs. My opinion.

[Kenswing]

Neighborhood AED programs are usually established in coordination with VPSD. The AED program coordinator from VPSD will look at the number of houses and the layout of your village and determine the number and location of AED’s. They help establish an amount needed to fund the purchase and maintenance of the devices for the first four years. Our village has 19 AED’s. Our group also started on Facebook. It was the easiest way to communicate. We also had a presentation from VPSD on how the program works. That gave any of our residents a chance to voice any concerns or ask any questions.
We also went door to door asking for $100. That seems to be pretty standard. If someone wasn’t interested we just moved on to the next house. We had several people contributed well over the $100 ask. If the people in your village are trying to shame people into contributing that should be addressed with your coordinator.

[Bill14564]

Very ballpark figure would be $2,000 to purchase, some amount to install, then about $500 after three years for batteries and pads.

For 25 devices that comes close to $63,000 or 630 homes each contributing $100. By 2027 you would need to collect again for the next set of batteries and pads. Are there than many homes in the neighborhood?

We don't have any in our area. I'm told it was discussed some time before I bought here but with the great response times of the VPSD it was determined to be a lot of money, training, and coordination for possibly no return.

[BigDawgInLakeDenham]

Thanks for posting this perspective on Facebook groups. I have wondered "who appointed them boss?"....obviously themselves. It's wonderful that people take initiative to do stuff, but your ideas are valid. I along with you am not chastising any group and I believe them to have good intentions.

That being said, the same thing is happening in Lake Denham and I believe my neighbors want AED's but the only thing I know is.....they're collecting money.

Why I don't know more is purely my fault because:
1. I don't use Facebook
2. I'm a Snow Flake and I'm rarely at my TV home at this point,
but soon to be there full time
3. I haven't sought out the person spearheading the initiative
4. I can't commit to do anything at this time

Here are my thoughts on an AED program:
1. The best why to give an unresponsive person with no pulse is
IMMEDIATE INITIATION OF CPR...so teach everyone CPR
2. There is a good chance that the pulseless victim is in an
UNSHOCKABLE RYHTHM AND THE AED DOESN'T HELP SO
TEACH EVERYONE CPR
3. AED's do not provide CPR
4. AED's run on batteries and in some cases are $2,000
disposable equipment. Are you purchasing replacement
batteries and who is funding that over the years? Who is
routinely checking for proper functionality? A dead AED is
worthless

I would think that someone wanting AED's would first talk to the entire neighborhood and rally the troops. Find out who knows ACLS and CPR. Who has done CPR. Who has used defibrillators to shock people into a survivable rhythm. Get a team of folks that are in the know and not afraid to help in an emergency. Have a phone list of folks that can and will help. An AED looking nice in a weatherproof box may give you warm and fuzziness but is worthless until properly utilized.

Again I'm not being mean.....I'm being realistic

[Kenswing]

Originally Posted by BigDawgInLakeDenham

Thanks for posting this perspective on Facebook groups. I have wondered "who appointed them boss?"....obviously themselves. It's wonderful that people take initiative to do stuff, but your ideas are valid. I along with you am not chastising any group and I believe them to have good intentions.

That being said, the same thing is happening in Lake Denham and I believe my neighbors want AED's but the only thing I know is.....they're collecting money.

Why I don't know more is purely my fault because:
1. I don't use Facebook
2. I'm a Snow Flake and I'm rarely at my TV home at this point,
but soon to be there full time
3. I haven't sought out the person spearheading the initiative
4. I can't commit to do anything at this time

Here are my thoughts on an AED program:
1. The best why to give an unresponsive person with no pulse is
IMMEDIATE INITIATION OF CPR...so teach everyone CPR
2. There is a good chance that the pulseless victim is in an
UNSHOCKABLE RYHTHM AND THE AED DOESN'T HELP SO
TEACH EVERYONE CPR
3. AED's do not provide CPR
4. AED's run on batteries and in some cases are $2,000
disposable equipment. Are you purchasing replacement
batteries and who is funding that over the years? Who is
routinely checking for proper functionality? A dead AED is
worthless

I would think that someone wanting AED's would first talk to the entire neighborhood and rally the troops. Find out who knows ACLS and CPR. Who has done CPR. Who has used defibrillators to shock people into a survivable rhythm. Get a team of folks that are in the know and not afraid to help in an emergency. Have a phone list of folks that can and will help. An AED looking nice in a weatherproof box may give you warm and fuzziness but is worthless until properly utilized.

Again I'm not being mean.....I'm being realistic

Just to address some of your concerns. And I can only tell you how our village did/does things.
We had a retired nurse spearhead our effort. She asked for volunteers and established an AED Committee. We printed and distributed flyers with information about the program, so if someone wasn’t on facebook they were still initially informed. Since then our AED Committee has established a stand alone facebook group. If someone has questions and aren’t on facebook they can contact our coordinator directly.
We had tremendous support from the beginning. We have over 100 people trained in CPR and the use of the AED’s.
We also have a Maintenance Committee. We check our AED’s monthly, filling out a checklist and keeping it on file with the Maintenance Coordinator.
We’re in St. Catherine. That’s a six minute drive from Station 47. Add in dispatch time and the time it takes to roll, figure a minimum of eight minutes for first responders to arrive. And that’s if our closest resources are available.
We hold monthly communication tests and quarterly live dispatches. Our average time on scene is around two minutes with AED arrival around 2.5 minutes. As you might know every minute that the brain goes without oxygen reduces the chance of survival by about 10%. If we can get there in two minutes vs eight, it seems like a no brainer to have a local AED program.

[margaretmattson]

Originally Posted by BigDawgInLakeDenham

Thanks for posting this perspective on Facebook groups. I have wondered "who appointed them boss?"....obviously themselves. It's wonderful that people take initiative to do stuff, but your ideas are valid. I along with you am not chastising any group and I believe them to have good intentions.

That being said, the same thing is happening in Lake Denham and I believe my neighbors want AED's but the only thing I know is.....they're collecting money.

Why I don't know more is purely my fault because:
1. I don't use Facebook
2. I'm a Snow Flake and I'm rarely at my TV home at this point,
but soon to be there full time
3. I haven't sought out the person spearheading the initiative
4. I can't commit to do anything at this time

Here are my thoughts on an AED program:
1. The best why to give an unresponsive person with no pulse is
IMMEDIATE INITIATION OF CPR...so teach everyone CPR
2. There is a good chance that the pulseless victim is in an
UNSHOCKABLE RYHTHM AND THE AED DOESN'T HELP SO
TEACH EVERYONE CPR
3. AED's do not provide CPR
4. AED's run on batteries and in some cases are $2,000
disposable equipment. Are you purchasing replacement
batteries and who is funding that over the years? Who is
routinely checking for proper functionality? A dead AED is
worthless

I would think that someone wanting AED's would first talk to the entire neighborhood and rally the troops. Find out who knows ACLS and CPR. Who has done CPR. Who has used defibrillators to shock people into a survivable rhythm. Get a team of folks that are in the know and not afraid to help in an emergency. Have a phone list of folks that can and will help. An AED looking nice in a weatherproof box may give you warm and fuzziness but is worthless until properly utilized.

Again I'm not being mean.....I'm being realistic

Great post.. The pros and cons should be weighed in an informal meeting at a rec center.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by BigDawgInLakeDenham

Thanks for posting this perspective on Facebook groups. I have wondered "who appointed them boss?"....obviously themselves. It's wonderful that people take initiative to do stuff, but your ideas are valid. I along with you am not chastising any group and I believe them to have good intentions.

Those who take the initiative to start the program usually are the "boss"...

That being said, the same thing is happening in Lake Denham and I believe my neighbors want AED's but the only thing I know is.....they're collecting money.

That is typically the first step in purchasing the devices...

Why I don't know more is purely my fault because:
1. I don't use Facebook
2. I'm a Snow Flake and I'm rarely at my TV home at this point,
but soon to be there full time
3. I haven't sought out the person spearheading the initiative
4. I can't commit to do anything at this time

Then don't participate now...

My neighborhood has had the program for years. While I'm not yet a full time resident, I paid my initial $100 (as I believe it's an invaluable program that could possibly save my life when I AM there) and also pay for tickets to the yearly fund raisers we have to maintain the project, even when I cannot attend...

Here are my thoughts on an AED program:
1. The best why to give an unresponsive person with no pulse is
IMMEDIATE INITIATION OF CPR...so teach everyone CPR
2. There is a good chance that the pulseless victim is in an
UNSHOCKABLE RYHTHM AND THE AED DOESN'T HELP SO
TEACH EVERYONE CPR
3. AED's do not provide CPR
4. AED's run on batteries and in some cases are $2,000
disposable equipment. Are you purchasing replacement
batteries and who is funding that over the years? Who is
routinely checking for proper functionality? A dead AED is
worthless

CPR training and AED training typically go hand in hand. I know our AED responders are also trained in CPR.

I plan to join the program when I become a frog (there until I croak), as I'm already trained in AED use and CPR.

Batteries need to be replaced. Hence the yearly fundraiser.

And I'm pretty sure that EMS or the Fire Dept helps with checking the machines...

I would think that someone wanting AED's would first talk to the entire neighborhood and rally the troops. Find out who knows ACLS and CPR. Who has done CPR. Who has used defibrillators to shock people into a survivable rhythm. Get a team of folks that are in the know and not afraid to help in an emergency. Have a phone list of folks that can and will help. An AED looking nice in a weatherproof box may give you warm and fuzziness but is worthless until properly utilized.

This is exactly how the program works. If someone calls 911, they immediately send EMS help, but the next call goes out to the AED team (who undergo training), who respond, as well. They all receive a text and whomever is nearby can respond. Is it perfect? Obviously not. There may be times when no one is around. But it is an excellent adjunct...

Again I'm not being mean.....I'm being realistic

Having all the facts helps...

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by Kenswing

Neighborhood AED programs are usually established in coordination with VPSD. The AED program coordinator from VPSD will look at the number of houses and the layout of your village and determine the number and location of AED’s. They help establish an amount needed to fund the purchase and maintenance of the devices for the first four years. Our village has 19 AED’s. Our group also started on Facebook. It was the easiest way to communicate. We also had a presentation from VPSD on how the program works. That gave any of our residents a chance to voice any concerns or ask any questions.
We also went door to door asking for $100. That seems to be pretty standard. If someone wasn’t interested we just moved on to the next house. We had several people contributed well over the $100 ask. If the people in your village are trying to shame people into contributing that should be addressed with your coordinator.

This is the best answer. Get VPSD involved no need to reinvent the wheel. They have done this many times.

Here is the program: https://districtgov.org/departments/...DHAED_0124.pdf

[TedfromGA]

The AED program for our neighborhood consists of 2 units for ~70 homes, and once a year training for 12 responders. The requested donation is $100/per home every 4 years. This will cover training, pad and battery replacement as well as a reserve for AED unit replacement. As others have indicated this program can get a CPR trained person to the scene of a heart attack in a very short time. EMS and paramedics typical arrival time Village wide is in the order or 7 to 8 minutes. Add at least another minute for the EMS folks to start CPR. So one can conclude the "AED Program" can make a positive impact on a person who has a cardiac event. $100 per 4 years is very cheap insurance - especially if YOU are the one in need.

[BigDawgInLakeDenham]

Thank you to everyone responding to my post. Great to hear some "facts" and honest input on the program. Great that its connected to TV EMS. Mad respect for EMS! I wonder what the OP has to say after all these posts?

I need to add how important prompt, effective, CPR is to a chance at saving life. Circulating blood and oxygen means a lot more than... "No Shock Advised" stated by an AED. Don't think an AED, by itself, will provide a chance at life with a functioning brain. I again say that CPR should be your first thought to save a pulseless life. I again urge everyone to be competent in CPR, AED, and Heimlich for choking. If it happens to you or someone around you, you're best bet is having trained people around you. Having people afraid to initiate CPR due to lack of training and waiting for EMS is not conducive to positive outcomes...aka survival...in the Emergency Department when your body arrives. The reality is that the resuscitation chain has to be perfectly initiated to get about a 12% survival rate, outside the hospital. Fast to start and effective CPR gives the most chance.

I'm beginning to see that there is a huge reliance on these trained neighbors in the existing Villages with AED groups. If I'm drunk at the Square.... I'm not oncall. Eight minutes for EMS to arrive? SMH... Better know CPR yourselves because paying $100 every few years doesn't substitute for knowledge of how to be able help yourself. Again I'm realistic....harsh reality...but real.

[MrChip72]

Originally Posted by BigDawgInLakeDenham

3. AED's do not provide CPR

Last time I renewed my CPR certification the instructor clearly stated that CPR is the worst case scenario. AED's are more than twice as effective in saving lives.

[BigDawgInLakeDenham]

Originally Posted by MrChip72

Last time I renewed my CPR certification the instructor clearly stated that CPR is the worst case scenario. AED's are more than twice as effective in saving lives.

You're CPR instructor clearly is a mass murderer. Please do call the American Heart Association and PLEASE GIVE THEM YOUR INSTRUCTOR'S NAME....so they can ban him. I will gladly give back all my certifications if CPR is not your immediate response

[Shipping up to Boston]

Originally Posted by Retired55

This is a different view on an AED program that a group on Facebook is implementing, for the Village of Newell. It is a view no one on Facebook in the Group will comment on for fear of being outcast or attacked. That’s why its being posted here. This is not meant to attack the organizers or anyone who supports or has donated to the program. The organizer has mentioned to the group that some people where opposed to the Program but they do not understand why.

The group wants to install 25 AED devices throughout the Village, and is asking $100 per household.

First, the AED devises are a great Lifesaving tool and I think they are wonderful as I am also certified to operate one. But the program itself is not the issue.

Simply said, a Facebook group should not be making decisions for the entire Village, no matter how good or well meaning the project is. It is just a Facebook group; no one voted anyone in for this. It has created a situation where you are making people uncomfortable and pitting one side against another. This should not happen. The group is aggressively collecting money by going door to door, setting up tables at the mail and rec centers and other ways. Some people do not appreciate that and shouldn't have to explain why they do not want to contribute.

The Village of Newell is a beautiful community, with friendly neighbors who look out for each other and enjoy each others company. While this program is very thoughtful and well meaning, please understand that there may be some neighbors who do not agree, for their own reasons.

I'm sure money can be an issue with some people, and they shouldn’t have to explain that to anyone, or be made uncomfortable because of it.

There are lots of questions about the program itself but that is for a different conversation and is not really relevant to this view.

Please, this is just a different view not an argument.

I am curios what others in the Villages have to say on the issue.

Retired

First off, I’m violating my own rule for not reading the whole thread before I post so my apologies in advance.
That said, I would think in this day and age, that the AED would be ‘standard equipment’, especially in an over 55 community. The costs, while somewhat pricey, will never outweigh saving a life. Not a big learning curve with this device as it is voice directed....step by step, usually fool proof. The pads are nominal to replace but as stated before, they do have a shelf life. All that said, maybe if the units were expanded in deployment to other districts, a cheaper per unit cost could be achieved but honestly, I think this is a no brainer for the developer to absorb. In a perfect world obviously. On this one i guess I just assumed they were already in place...

[BigDawgInLakeDenham]

Originally Posted by Shipping up to Boston

First off, I’m violating my own rule for not reading the whole thread before I post so my apologies in advance.
That said, I would think in this day and age, that the AED would be ‘standard equipment’, especially in an over 55 community. The costs, while somewhat pricey, will never outweigh saving a life. Not a big learning curve with this device as it is voice directed....step by step, usually fool proof. The pads are nominal to replace but as stated before, they do have a shelf life. All that said, maybe if the units were expanded in deployment to other districts, a cheaper per unit cost could be achieved but honestly, I think this is a no brainer for the developer to absorb. In a perfect world obviously. On this one i guess I just assumed they were already in place...

So in this day and age....how do you circulate blood carrying oxygen? An AED does not circulate blood and your body dies without oxygen. An AED used on arrival after CPR was started can increase your chance of a positive outcome. CPR is the first thing you should do on a pulseless victim