[Irishmen]

OK it's company policy but come on. Also how would you feel If same company has facility right here in TV. Somewhat old news and I didn't see another thread. Maybe someone can post a link if is is first time haring this.

[Bill-n-Brillo]

Here's a link to one article about it:

Nursing Home CPR Case: Glenwood Gardens Defends Nurse Who Refused To Help Ailing Patient

If the individual who passed had a signed Do Not Resuscitate order on file, then the facility would have been following the wishes of that person. Otherwise, I can't understand someone from the facility not wanting to help the individual, especially since it's described in the article as an independent living facility.

Bill

[Irishmen]

Thanks Bill. On Oreilly a DNR was mentioned but they said it had nothing to do with what happened here. Go figure.

[travelguy]

this was very sad and also disturbing. if the deceased was a resident of the facility and had a dnr or was under hospice care then what was done (or not done in this instance) was appropriate. if the deceased was just visiting and this happened, then a good samaritan gesture would have been appropriate. i do not know the details, but this is so sad.

[LndLocked]

Completely and totally unconscionable!!

Why have medical personal (it was a staff nurse that followed the letter of the facility law to the point of death) if they are not gong to be allowed to actually preform medical procedures in the event of an emergency. We are talking CPR!! Not open heart surgery!!

One must wonder just how much blame can be assigned to lawyers and fear of tort cases causing such an insane policy. Billy Shakespeare got it right ... "first, we kill all the lawyers"

[LndLocked]

I read a different article than the one Bill posted that clearly identified the deceased as a resident of the facility that DID NOT have a DNR. She occurred distress while at lunch.

[jane032657]

Performing CPR is different than dealing with a DNR. You do not yet know if the person is dying, or is having a blockage from food, or whatever it could be. As an Administrator of a few Assisted Livings in my career, there has never been such a policy to not have CPR performed on someone who stops breathing. Further, there was a nurse there and on CNN the Executive Director said they had no nursing staff, that it was an Independent Living. No matter what it was, staff are trained in CPR whether they work in Independent, Assisted or Nursing Home. I, myself, was visiting my parents, when they lived in Seattle at their Independent Living, and a woman resident in the dining room keeled over and was not breathing. I immediately performed CPR while waiting for the paramedics and she came back very quickly. It is more than shocking to hear about this neglectful situation and I am sure that the Assisted Living company which manages that property will be under strict investigation by authorities. DNR is an order when someone is at life end or very ill and has made a decision to not want intervention; it does not relate to when someone is eating in the dining room and suddenly stops breathing, particulary if in fact this is an independent living where people are generally healthy and able. You do not leave someone lying on the floor who cannot breathe and stand over them and do nothing.

[villagerjack]

Originally Posted by jane032657

Performing CPR is different than dealing with a DNR. You do not yet know if the person is dying, or is having a blockage from food, or whatever it could be. As an Administrator of a few Assisted Livings in my career, there has never been such a policy to not have CPR performed on someone who stops breathing. Further, there was a nurse there and on CNN the Executive Director said they had no nursing staff, that it was an Independent Living. No matter what it was, staff are trained in CPR whether they work in Independent, Assisted or Nursing Home. I, myself, was visiting my parents, when they lived in Seattle at their Independent Living, and a woman resident in the dining room keeled over and was not breathing. I immediately performed CPR while waiting for the paramedics and she came back very quickly. It is more than shocking to hear about this neglectful situation and I am sure that the Assisted Living company which manages that property will be under strict investigation by authorities. DNR is an order when someone is at life end or very ill and has made a decision to not want intervention; it does not relate to when someone is eating in the dining room and suddenly stops breathing, particulary if in fact this is an independent living where people are generally healthy and able. You do not leave someone lying on the floor who cannot breathe and stand over them and do nothing.

Thanks Jane for that educated post. Should answer a lot of questions.

[Portia]

You are a good person Janie!!!!

[applesoffh]

Maybe I misunderstood the article I read in this morning's Orlando Sentinel, but it was stated that the woman was "barely breathing". I was taught that you do not administer CPR unless the patient had stopped breathing. Anyway, as for the facility's policy...I think it's awful.

[Peggy D]

Originally Posted by applesoffh

Maybe I misunderstood the article I read in this morning's Orlando Sentinel, but it was stated that the woman was "barely breathing". I was taught that you do not administer CPR unless the patient had stopped breathing. Anyway, as for the facility's policy...I think it's awful.

What is the difference between Independent Living Facility and Assisted Living Facility?

I guess I really want to know is an Independent facility equipt to handle such an emergency--do the have oxygen?

If this person was breathing (but not well) rescue breathing should have been started or oxygen. Totally inexcusable for what the nurse did--or didn't do.

Very sad.

[justjim]

The company policy was NOT to use CPR when needed to save a person's life in an Independent Living facility----defies common sense and is outrageous. You have to wonder what committee came up with this dumb policy?? Unbelievable!

[billethkid]

A product of the distortion that is allowed and will more and more as time goes on as the emphasis of medical care continues to shift from the well being of the patient to profit, loss and liability prevention!

.btk

[jane032657]

Originally Posted by Peggy D

What is the difference between Independent Living Facility and Assisted Living Facility?

I guess I really want to know is an Independent facility equipt to handle such an emergency--do the have oxygen?

If this person was breathing (but not well) rescue breathing should have been started or oxygen. Totally inexcusable for what the nurse did--or didn't do.

Very sad.

An Independent Living Community provides a meal plan, housekeeping services, activities, transportation, and a secure environment for people who want these services yet remain generally able to care for themselves day to day; or who need some lower level of assistance but receive this from an outside contracted caregiver. An Independent Living is not licensed to provide personal care to residents. It does provide a safe atmosphere with the amenities of daily living and usually costs less than Assisted Living because no direct personal care is offered or provided.

An Assisted Living provides everything an Independent Living offers except it has a range of personal care services that are paid for depending on how much is needed. There are "levels" of care that have a point system and monetary cost associated with them. An Assisted Living may also have a Memory Care community within the building but separate and secure for individuals with alzheimers or dementia. Care costs can be anywhere from hundreds to thousands of extra dollars on top of the monthly rent fee depending on the needs of the person. Most of the Assisted Livings in our area are private pay which means that Medicaid does not cover the care of the person nor does Medicare. There are some, and I do not know where they are, that accept Medicaid and they are not usually as elegant as the private pay but can provide excellent care- a person must be financially eligible. The beauty of the building does not equate to good care. You need to be diligent in asking questions to evaluate excellence.

Some Assisted Living/Memory Care communities provide higher levels of care depending on how they are licensed. However, they do not administer oxygen-that is what 911 does. Assisted Livings are not hospitals-they can help with the activities of daily living such as bathing, dressing, mobility, eating, toileting and medication management. Some may do more. They are care communities, not medical communities. Staff are usualy all trained in CPR.

A Nursing Home is a Medical model with 24 hour nursing staff and doctors who see residents.

I would expect that no individual Independent or Assisted Living community would make a policy such as not to administer CPR without corporate approval, so it will be of most interest to see if the corporate office knew about this building's policy or if this was something that was unique to the community and unknown to the headquarters where the woman did not recieve help. I expect there will be some immediate personnel changes...

[Parker]

Imagine now being a resident in that home, or a family member of said resident, and considering your own risk if you keel over...something tells me things are gonna change there bigtime, and hopefully very soon.