[Rainger99]

I just saw that if you have a priority golf membership, it will not cover trail fees at executive golf courses.

[Papa_lecki]

Thats not what the application says - “includes country club pool and executive trail fee”

https://www.golfthevillages.com/imag...pplication.pdf

[Bilyclub]

Originally Posted by Papa_lecki

Thats not what the application says - “includes country club pool and executive trail fee”

https://www.golfthevillages.com/imag...pplication.pdf

It's part of the new agreement. Both sides have not signed off on it, yet. It's on the online rag.

[Two Bills]

I can see the argument to remove the Executive Course concession, as the Developer bins all the the money from Priority Golf sales.
Amenity Fee collection stands to gain $$$$ by refusing the trail fee concession.
Bit like Walmart giving out vouchers with special offer, for 10% off at Publix, and not sharing bonus on sales.

[Goldwingnut]

Over the last few months there has been more clarity brought to this situation and the inclusion of the trail fee in the priority membership.

First, the inclusion of the executive course trail fee was for the priority membership holder only, if the rest of the household wanted the executive course trail fee it was sold at 75% of the normal rate.

The inclusion of the executive course trail fee with the priority membership was a holdover from the days when the developer owned all the courses - championship and executive, the majority of executive courses are now owned by the SLCDD and the VCCDD.

The inclusion of the executive course trail fee with the priority membership derived no benefit to the budgets that maintain the executive courses. No revenue was received from the developer for these included trail fees. For lack of a better term, they were a gift from the VCCDD and the SLCDD to the developer and the residents who purchased the priority membership. The only time there is revenue received related to the priority membership is when the reduced trail fee is paid for the remainder of the household.

The only people who are benefiting from the current agreement are the minority that are receiving the "free" trail fee, the remainder, the rest of the residents, are having to (unjustly?) carry their costs associated with executive course play.

Since the developer is not paying for the inclusion of the executive course trail fee with the priority membership, there will not be a change in the priority membership rate, they have made that perfectly clear. They are not profiting from either the current or proposed Trail Fee policy.

The SLCDD and VCCDD are governmental bodies, there is no justification or requirement to provide preferential treatment to any one resident, group of residents, or business entity.

If the AAC wants to have additional public discussion on this topic, all of the information should be made crystal clear before the few who are benefiting from the current agreement start to vent their rage. If the AAC decides not to change the current policy as proposed, they should then be ready to justify and explain to the rest of the non-priority membership residents that are paying a trail fee 1) why they should continue to give this service away 2) why the non-priory residents should continue to cover the costs and 3) why non-priority resident should not also receive either free or a discounted trail fee. There is no reasonable justification for any of these.

Executive golf is still free, if you walk the course, with or without your own hand cart, you pay nothing to play. The trail fee is a convenience fee to allow you to use your own cart on the course and cover the additional wear and tear on the course these carts bring. The costs associated with cart wear are significant and were part of the justification of the change a year ago in the Reasonable Accommodations policy.

With respect to the rest of the proposed agreement, these are needed changes. Revenue sharing of trail fees is now clearly defined. The cost of providing the on-line service will now be shared based on a benefit received based calculation method - the developer will pay a higher percentage of the actual costs. The ability to pay your trail fee and/or priority membership fees on-line will finally be available. An avenue will now be available to make changes to the on-line reservation system - perhaps we can now move into the 21 centry and have a phone app to make reservations instead of having to rely on a web page. Trail fees will include a CPI adjustment to help cover the continued increasing costs of the additional course maintenance.

[Laker14]

Thank you, Goldwingnut for bringing that information. I was under the mistaken impression that some of the Priority dollars went to the districts, with the assumption that since a Priority Member plays enough golf on Championship courses that they won't play a lot on executive courses, so a small fraction of that money might be better than no money at all collected from a Priority member who doesn't play any executive golf.

Given your explanation, I see no reason why the trail fee should be waived for the Priority member. As a Priority Member, I see no reason for that fee to be reduced since none of that money was going to pay for trail fees anyway.

[tophcfa]

Originally Posted by Goldwingnut

Over the last few months there has been more clarity brought to this situation and the inclusion of the trail fee in the priority membership.

First, the inclusion of the executive course trail fee was for the priority membership holder only, if the rest of the household wanted the executive course trail fee it was sold at 75% of the normal rate.

The inclusion of the executive course trail fee with the priority membership was a holdover from the days when the developer owned all the courses - championship and executive, the majority of executive courses are now owned by the SLCDD and the VCCDD.

The inclusion of the executive course trail fee with the priority membership derived no benefit to the budgets that maintain the executive courses. No revenue was received from the developer for these included trail fees. For lack of a better term, they were a gift from the VCCDD and the SLCDD to the developer and the residents who purchased the priority membership. The only time there is revenue received related to the priority membership is when the reduced trail fee is paid for the remainder of the household.

The only people who are benefiting from the current agreement are the minority that are receiving the "free" trail fee, the remainder, the rest of the residents, are having to (unjustly?) carry their costs associated with executive course play.

Since the developer is not paying for the inclusion of the executive course trail fee with the priority membership, there will not be a change in the priority membership rate, they have made that perfectly clear. They are not profiting from either the current or proposed Trail Fee policy.

The SLCDD and VCCDD are governmental bodies, there is no justification or requirement to provide preferential treatment to any one resident, group of residents, or business entity.

If the AAC wants to have additional public discussion on this topic, all of the information should be made crystal clear before the few who are benefiting from the current agreement start to vent their rage. If the AAC decides not to change the current policy as proposed, they should then be ready to justify and explain to the rest of the non-priority membership residents that are paying a trail fee 1) why they should continue to give this service away 2) why the non-priory residents should continue to cover the costs and 3) why non-priority resident should not also receive either free or a discounted trail fee. There is no reasonable justification for any of these.

Executive golf is still free, if you walk the course, with or without your own hand cart, you pay nothing to play. The trail fee is a convenience fee to allow you to use your own cart on the course and cover the additional wear and tear on the course these carts bring. The costs associated with cart wear are significant and were part of the justification of the change a year ago in the Reasonable Accommodations policy.

With respect to the rest of the proposed agreement, these are needed changes. Revenue sharing of trail fees is now clearly defined. The cost of providing the on-line service will now be shared based on a benefit received based calculation method - the developer will pay a higher percentage of the actual costs. The ability to pay your trail fee and/or priority membership fees on-line will finally be available. An avenue will now be available to make changes to the on-line reservation system - perhaps we can now move into the 21 centry and have a phone app to make reservations instead of having to rely on a web page. Trail fees will include a CPI adjustment to help cover the continued increasing costs of the additional course maintenance.

Thanks, that explains things clearly. I support the proposed changes as they appear to put all residents on a level playing field and modestly increase revenue for the ongoing maintenance of the Executives.

[Mortal1]

to goldwingnut...."Executive golf is still free, if you walk the course, with or without your own hand cart, you pay nothing to play. The trail fee is a convenience fee to allow you to use your own cart on the course and cover the additional wear and tear on the course these carts bring. The costs associated with cart wear are significant and were part of the justification of the change a year ago in the Reasonable Accommodations policy"...it is NOT free. part of your amenity fees goes towards exec golf.

[tophcfa]

Originally Posted by Mortal1

to goldwingnut...."Executive golf is still free, if you walk the course, with or without your own hand cart, you pay nothing to play. The trail fee is a convenience fee to allow you to use your own cart on the course and cover the additional wear and tear on the course these carts bring. The costs associated with cart wear are significant and were part of the justification of the change a year ago in the Reasonable Accommodations policy"...it is NOT free. part of your amenity fees goes towards exec golf.

I guess it’s all how you choose to look at the amenity fee. The way I look at it, you pay the fee regardless of weather you opt to play the Executives or not. If you decide to play the Executives, regardless of how often, your amenity fee remains the same (in the business world that’s referred to as a sunk cost). Based on that logic, it’s easy to argue the Executives are free. Put another way, if my wife and I walk an Executive course today, we will be out of pocket zero additional dollars. If we decide to play 18 at a typical Championship course today, walk or ride, we will be out of pocket about $135 including tax.

[alwann]

Originally Posted by Goldwingnut

Over the last few months there has been more clarity brought to this situation and the inclusion of the trail fee in the priority membership.

First, the inclusion of the executive course trail fee was for the priority membership holder only, if the rest of the household wanted the executive course trail fee it was sold at 75% of the normal rate.

The inclusion of the executive course trail fee with the priority membership was a holdover from the days when the developer owned all the courses - championship and executive, the majority of executive courses are now owned by the SLCDD and the VCCDD.

The inclusion of the executive course trail fee with the priority membership derived no benefit to the budgets that maintain the executive courses. No revenue was received from the developer for these included trail fees. For lack of a better term, they were a gift from the VCCDD and the SLCDD to the developer and the residents who purchased the priority membership. The only time there is revenue received related to the priority membership is when the reduced trail fee is paid for the remainder of the household.

The only people who are benefiting from the current agreement are the minority that are receiving the "free" trail fee, the remainder, the rest of the residents, are having to (unjustly?) carry their costs associated with executive course play.

Since the developer is not paying for the inclusion of the executive course trail fee with the priority membership, there will not be a change in the priority membership rate, they have made that perfectly clear. They are not profiting from either the current or proposed Trail Fee policy.

The SLCDD and VCCDD are governmental bodies, there is no justification or requirement to provide preferential treatment to any one resident, group of residents, or business entity.

If the AAC wants to have additional public discussion on this topic, all of the information should be made crystal clear before the few who are benefiting from the current agreement start to vent their rage. If the AAC decides not to change the current policy as proposed, they should then be ready to justify and explain to the rest of the non-priority membership residents that are paying a trail fee 1) why they should continue to give this service away 2) why the non-priory residents should continue to cover the costs and 3) why non-priority resident should not also receive either free or a discounted trail fee. There is no reasonable justification for any of these.

Executive golf is still free, if you walk the course, with or without your own hand cart, you pay nothing to play. The trail fee is a convenience fee to allow you to use your own cart on the course and cover the additional wear and tear on the course these carts bring. The costs associated with cart wear are significant and were part of the justification of the change a year ago in the Reasonable Accommodations policy.

With respect to the rest of the proposed agreement, these are needed changes. Revenue sharing of trail fees is now clearly defined. The cost of providing the on-line service will now be shared based on a benefit received based calculation method - the developer will pay a higher percentage of the actual costs. The ability to pay your trail fee and/or priority membership fees on-line will finally be available. An avenue will now be available to make changes to the on-line reservation system - perhaps we can now move into the 21 centry and have a phone app to make reservations instead of having to rely on a web page. Trail fees will include a CPI adjustment to help cover the continued increasing costs of the additional course maintenance.

Appreciate the explanation, but remain confused about who the trail fee covers. I read the trail fee under the current policy covers up to 4 people per household. Asking another way, I am a priority member who plays executives once or twice a month at most with spouse. Currently she pays the $4 fee each time. (She doesn't play often enough to break even on paying the trail fee at the annual rate, nor would I.) So, if I also want to pay at the course going forward instead an annual fee, is it $4 or $8 for us? This isn't about the money. I'm merely confused about what "covers to 4" really means.

[Bilyclub]

In the past I have seen many posts stating that the trail fee was instituted so that TV could keep their advertised promise of "free golf for life".

The Villages TV Commercial for Golf Free For Life - iSpot.tv

[collie1228]

"The costs associated with cart wear are significant and were part of the justification of the change a year ago in the Reasonable Accommodations policy." Wait a minute. All executive courses have permanent concrete cart paths on which golfers must drive (unless you are handicapped). Just how much wear and tear is there on a concrete pathway? I submit there is none. Trail fees are a money making tax historically imposed by golf courses to enhance profit margins. For executive courses with concrete golf cart paths they are even more profitable.

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by collie1228

"The costs associated with cart wear are significant and were part of the justification of the change a year ago in the Reasonable Accommodations policy." Wait a minute. All executive courses have permanent concrete cart paths on which golfers must drive (unless you are handicapped). Just how much wear and tear is there on a concrete pathway? I submit there is none. Trail fees are a money making tax historically imposed by golf courses to enhance profit margins. For executive courses with concrete golf cart paths they are even more profitable.

Don't forget the original cost of the path......walkers should not pay for that.

Don't forget about the par fours out there.

[mike234]

I am elderly and have trouble walking. this is discriminatory against elders who aren't handicapped but have trouble walking.....this is terrible and everybody should pay zero.

[rustyp]

Originally Posted by Goldwingnut

Over the last few months there has been more clarity brought to this situation and the inclusion of the trail fee in the priority membership.

First, the inclusion of the executive course trail fee was for the priority membership holder only, if the rest of the household wanted the executive course trail fee it was sold at 75% of the normal rate.

The inclusion of the executive course trail fee with the priority membership was a holdover from the days when the developer owned all the courses - championship and executive, the majority of executive courses are now owned by the SLCDD and the VCCDD.

The inclusion of the executive course trail fee with the priority membership derived no benefit to the budgets that maintain the executive courses. No revenue was received from the developer for these included trail fees. For lack of a better term, they were a gift from the VCCDD and the SLCDD to the developer and the residents who purchased the priority membership. The only time there is revenue received related to the priority membership is when the reduced trail fee is paid for the remainder of the household.

The only people who are benefiting from the current agreement are the minority that are receiving the "free" trail fee, the remainder, the rest of the residents, are having to (unjustly?) carry their costs associated with executive course play.

Since the developer is not paying for the inclusion of the executive course trail fee with the priority membership, there will not be a change in the priority membership rate, they have made that perfectly clear. They are not profiting from either the current or proposed Trail Fee policy.

The SLCDD and VCCDD are governmental bodies, there is no justification or requirement to provide preferential treatment to any one resident, group of residents, or business entity.

If the AAC wants to have additional public discussion on this topic, all of the information should be made crystal clear before the few who are benefiting from the current agreement start to vent their rage. If the AAC decides not to change the current policy as proposed, they should then be ready to justify and explain to the rest of the non-priority membership residents that are paying a trail fee 1) why they should continue to give this service away 2) why the non-priory residents should continue to cover the costs and 3) why non-priority resident should not also receive either free or a discounted trail fee. There is no reasonable justification for any of these.

Executive golf is still free, if you walk the course, with or without your own hand cart, you pay nothing to play. The trail fee is a convenience fee to allow you to use your own cart on the course and cover the additional wear and tear on the course these carts bring. The costs associated with cart wear are significant and were part of the justification of the change a year ago in the Reasonable Accommodations policy.

With respect to the rest of the proposed agreement, these are needed changes. Revenue sharing of trail fees is now clearly defined. The cost of providing the on-line service will now be shared based on a benefit received based calculation method - the developer will pay a higher percentage of the actual costs. The ability to pay your trail fee and/or priority membership fees on-line will finally be available. An avenue will now be available to make changes to the on-line reservation system - perhaps we can now move into the 21 centry and have a phone app to make reservations instead of having to rely on a web page. Trail fees will include a CPI adjustment to help cover the continued increasing costs of the additional course maintenance.

The article in the online news states a $38000 boost in revenue is the estimate this change will benefit the executive courses. I find that hard to believe since $38000/141= 269.5. Call it 270. 270 is the number of priority memberships that have been given complementary trail fees. Even at half assuming non spousal membership that equals 540 memberships. In a community of nearly 140000 that says .2% have priority membership.

Lets say the number is more like only 2% priority membership. That would equal approx $395000 in increased revenue for the executive courses.

1. What are the real numbers?
2. If the windfall is significant enough should not the auto increase trail fee CPI formula be reviewed and possibly offset?