[Carl in Tampa]

Originally Posted by kittygilchrist

Hey, I just learned I don't own 15 feet in front of my house. You could park a mac truck out there. Really, what are the property rights for that area???

Now THERE is a question that might profitably be addressed to the VCDD.

It wouldn't help to ask the Sheriff because the response will be "It's a Civil matter, not Criminal." (I used to give this answer a lot.)

[Warren Kiefer]

Originally Posted by TheVillageChicken

I must live in the only neighborhood without an easement/right of way along the front of my property.

Here are copies of the wording in all the deed restriction docs for every neighborhood in Marion County except mine (the bigger picture) and the wording in mine (smaller pic.) Mine omits the 10 foot along the street.

It appears you are right. But keep in mind Right Of Ways are independent of easements. I think it safe to say that every stret and road has a ROW distance.

[Warren Kiefer]

Originally Posted by SantaClaus

A setback limits what the homeowner can do on his property, an easement grants another rights to some specific use of the homeowner's property. In either case, the property belongs to the homeowner, and he is responsible for the maintenance and safety of those portions of his property (excluding items added under easement rights). So, I am responsible for maintaining the grass between the sidewalk and the street (it is my property), but even though the sidewalk is on my property, I am not responsible for maintaining the sidewalk.

How much do you think it costs you to irrigate these areas, including the right of way which you DO NOT own.

[Warren Kiefer]

Originally Posted by kittygilchrist

Definitions previously given with citations:

setback-the area withing property lines on which building is permitted
easement-a legally granted right to a specific entity for a specific purpose within the land owned by the property owner.

Here is the VCDD description of the specific entity and specific purpose for which easement to my property is granted. section 3:

http://www.districtgov.org/images/De...209/S9-210.pdf

an easement, by the way, does not give any rights to the person who has an easement to restrict what I do on my propery, unless it materially interferes with their right to perform the specific purpose they are allowed to achieve.

just for the purpose of clarity, an easement does not convey any right to anybody outside the property owner except as explicitly stated in the easement.

If anyone disagrees, please support your statements with documentation. I am sincerely trying to learn what I can and cannot do on my little piece of paradise.

The easement actually does restrict what the property owner is allowed to do. The property owner cannot erect any permanent structures within the easement limits.

[Bonanza]

Originally Posted by Jayhawk

I will never understand people who spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to buy into a community, only to push the envelope at every turn to try and circumvent the rules, regulations, and policies of the same community.

I guess for some, if there is nothing to complain about, life just isn't challenging.

Rules, regulatons, by-laws, or whatever else you want to call them, are all written before one house is ever built within a community. They are usually taken from a compilation of other HOA documents and there are specific attorneys who often write them. Our documents are much more involved because the developer rules here and it is either his way or the highway.

However, having been in real estate for 30 years and been involved with many associations, I have never known an assocation that did not make changes to their documents, as the years went by. The proper word is "updating" and all documents need to have this done periodically.

It is not unusual for a homeowner to question or want to make a change that is not within the docs because, frankly, many of the rules are archaic and some never even made sense when they were created. Many times the rules simply have to do with the creator's ego.

I think your reference of people "pushing the envelope" to "curcumvent the rules" is a little exaggerated. Homeowners just want to make some changes to make their property reflect their taste, even though it may not be good taste in someone else's eyes. That's why we have the ARC.

[8notes]

Originally Posted by blueash

Florida Community Association Journal

I post this as it claims that xeriscaping is not Florida Friendly landscaping and has a great number of references as to what landscape provisions and goals are being regulated. Here is the law:

Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

“Florida-friendly landscaping” means quality landscapes that conserve water, protect the environment, are adaptable to local conditions, and are drought tolerant. The principles of such landscaping include planting the right plant in the right place, efficient watering, appropriate fertilization, mulching, attraction of wildlife, responsible management of yard pests, recycling yard waste, reduction of stormwater runoff, and waterfront protection. Additional components include practices such as landscape planning and design, soil analysis, the appropriate use of solid waste compost, minimizing the use of irrigation, and proper maintenance."

blueash, this was a great post, thank you for the links. I was reading the first link from the Florida Community Association Journal, and it appeared the homeowner's association involved formed a team of experts - legal as well as horticultural, and came up with guidelines for homeowners: "Using suggestions from the horticulturalist and irrigation designer and the Nine Principles of Florida-Friendly LandscapingTM, the team designed several lawn templates for owners to choose from for Florida-friendly landscaping using turf and using no turf."

They also revised their guidelines to fall in line with the new Florida state law.

Interesting.

[Jayhawk]

Originally Posted by Bonanza

Rules, regulatons, by-laws, or whatever else you want to call them, are all written before one house is ever built within a community. They are usually taken from a compilation of other HOA documents and there are specific attorneys who often write them. Our documents are much more involved because the developer rules here and it is either his way or the highway.

However, having been in real estate for 30 years and been involved with many associations, I have never known an assocation that did not make changes to their documents, as the years went by. The proper word is "updating" and all documents need to have this done periodically.

It is not unusual for a homeowner to question or want to make a change that is not within the docs because, frankly, many of the rules are archaic and some never even made sense when they were created. Many times the rules simply have to do with the creator's ego.

I think your reference of people "pushing the envelope" to "curcumvent the rules" is a little exaggerated. Homeowners just want to make some changes to make their property reflect their taste, even though it may not be good taste in someone else's eyes. That's why we have the ARC.

No disagreement with what you wrote. But following procedure to make changes to reflect personal taste is not at all what I was referring to. That is EXACTLY what everyone should do. That is NOT what many of the posts in this thread are calling for. And yes, if you take the time to re-read, you will see some that specifically state they have or will push the envelope.

As for me, I knew this was a community with detailed and specific guidelines. It's why I bought, and it's why I remain. Trust me, if I didn't like it I would move.

As it applies to the dog issue, there are literally dozens of wildlife species in Florida that inhabit and poop in our yards (List of mammals of Florida - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). They are not all here in TV obviously, but some are. No one picks it up and I have yet to read a complaint about it. What I do see is 99% of the pet owners DO pick up after their pets. Those few that don't should be called out, no question.

I guess having lived in other large, relatively affluent communities and never having heard or read complaints about people who DO curb their pets (though certainly I did about those who failed to), this aggravation at those who do seems strange to me.

But it's another beautiful day in The Villages. Think I'll go play golf

[Lovey2]

Originally Posted by birdawg

If they told me that I would be parking my golf cart on their lawn and driving my car across their lawn

Hahaha!! Let's just say I have some ideas percolating should it become an issue. Like where I'll empty my litter box. This thread has been very interesting tho. Apparently the woman I spoke with was right in some respects. I'm glad Kitty asked the question...we've all learned a lot here I think. I think I'm on one of the smallest lots in TV, so I'm not even sure I own my front door, at this point!!

[kittygilchrist]

Originally Posted by Lovey2

Hahaha!! Let's just say I have some ideas percolating should it become an issue. Like where I'll empty my litter box. This thread has been very interesting tho. Apparently the woman I spoke with was right in some respects. I'm glad Kitty asked the question...we've all learned a lot here I think. I think I'm on one of the smallest lots in TV, so I'm not even sure I own my front door, at this point!!

If we all have equal rights to the areas between homeowner lot and street, it solves parking problems for parties. People who come to parties can all parallel park on neighbors' driveways and turf. (This is a ridiculous idea, I know)...I think we should respect and stay off each others property that we don't own, period.

[Lovey2]

Originally Posted by kittygilchrist

If we all have equal rights to the areas between homeowner lot and street, it solves parking problems for parties. People who come to parties can all parallel park on neighbors' driveways and turf. (This is a ridiculous idea, I know)...I think we should respect and stay off each others property that we don't own, period.

Wish we had a "like" button on here....

[kittygilchrist]

Synopsis of thread:
-there is an area between street and house not owned by homeowner. in my case, 15 feet. (as Carl says, look at your site plan or plat)
-none of us who've posted so far know who owns that area or what rights pertain for the public or the homeowner.
-developer has an easement on 4 sides of most homesites, in my case, 10' on street side.
-easement legally means developer may access and utilize that area as needed in future for utilities, etc. easement does not convey rights to the public.

Questions we can't answer:

-who does own the 15 feet in front of my lot?
-does the public have rights as if they owned that area since I do not own it?
-what rights and responsibilities do I have for that area?

example of implications: I do not own the 15 feet of my driveway nearest to the street. Do both the public and i have equal rights to utilize the driveway between my garage and the street? (this question is posed only to get to the bottom of property rights, as a hypothetical)...

-subtopic...one poster says some dog owners claim rights of access and toileting dogs on the areas of turf not owned by homeowner. I'm against it, because my dog's urine is a weapon of mass destruction.
-subtopic...Fl has new law incorporated (apparently) into new Village deed restrictions to encourage Florida Friendly Landscapes promulgated by UF.

[TheVillageChicken]

Originally Posted by kittygilchrist

thread synopsis:
-there is an area between street and house not owned by homeowner. in my case, 15 feet. (as Carl says, look at your site plan or plat)
-none of us who've posted so far know who owns that area or what rights pertain for the public or the homeowner.
-developer has an easement on 4 sides of most homesites, in my case, 10' on street side.
-easement legally means developer may access and utilize that area as needed in future for utilities, etc. easement does not convey rights to the public.
-questions remain:
who does own the 15 feet in front of my lot?
does the public have rights as if they owned that area since I do not own it?
what rights and responsibilities do I have to that area?
example of implications: I do not own the 15 feet of my driveway nearest to the street. Do both the public and i have equal rights to the space between my garage and the street?
-subtopic...one poster says some dog owners claim rights of access and toileting dogs on the areas of turf not owned by homeowner. I'm against it, but my dog's urine is lethal.

As far as the dog poop goes, both Marion and Lake County have ordinances that address this.

Lake:

It is a violation of this section for the owner of any animal to fail to exercise sufficient care and control of his or her animal and the animal commits any of the following acts:

Deposits solid excreta on public or private property other than the property of the owner or person in custody of the animal, without the authorization or consent of the property owner, unless the animal owner or person in custody of the animal immediately removes and properly disposes of the excrement.

Marion:

an owner shall prevent a domestic animal from becoming a nuisance. The department of animal services may impound a domestic animal creating a nuisance. A nuisance includes but is not limited to:

A domestic animal that defecates on public or private property other than the owner's property.

Sumter does not address the issue in its County Code, so if you live there, poop away.

[Warren Kiefer]

Originally Posted by kittygilchrist

Synopsis of thread:
-there is an area between street and house not owned by homeowner. in my case, 15 feet. (as Carl says, look at your site plan or plat)
-none of us who've posted so far know who owns that area or what rights pertain for the public or the homeowner.
-developer has an easement on 4 sides of most homesites, in my case, 10' on street side.
-easement legally means developer may access and utilize that area as needed in future for utilities, etc. easement does not convey rights to the public.

Questions we can't answer:

-who does own the 15 feet in front of my lot?
-does the public have rights as if they owned that area since I do not own it?
-what rights and responsibilities do I have for that area?

example of implications: I do not own the 15 feet of my driveway nearest to the street. Do both the public and i have equal rights to utilize the driveway between my garage and the street? (this question is posed only to get to the bottom of property rights, as a hypothetical)...

-subtopic...one poster says some dog owners claim rights of access and toileting dogs on the areas of turf not owned by homeowner. I'm against it, because my dog's urine is a weapon of mass destruction.
-subtopic...Fl has new law incorporated (apparently) into new Village deed restrictions to encourage Florida Friendly Landscapes promulgated by UF.

That frontage area is a Right of Way, in our case either is or will be owned by the County in which you live. There are areas like this along State highways and of course is the property of that State. The public DOES NOT have any particular rights to this ROW. Property owners do have access and egess across the ROW to their property. Recently the big issue with the wall on the orginal side, the ROW played a role. To get back and forth people wre using the ROW property. It wasn't long before the State of Florida stepped into the fray and stopped the golf carts from driving down the ROW....

[kittygilchrist]

Originally Posted by Warren Kiefer

That frontage area is a Right of Way, in our case either is or will be owned by the County in which you live. There are areas like this along State highways and of course is the property of that State. The public DOES NOT have any particular rights to this ROW. Property owners do have access and egess across the ROW to their property. Recently the big issue with the wall on the orginal side, the ROW played a role. To get back and forth people wre using the ROW property. It wasn't long before the State of Florida stepped into the fray and stopped the golf carts from driving down the ROW....

Warren, I would be grateful to have a resource supporting what you have said.

[Indydealmaker]

Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa

There may be, but need not be, an easement along the front of a piece of property. Easements are usually, but not necessarily, along the back of the property. There are also usually easements along the edge of the property abutting the neighbors property, which will also have an easement. All these easements are to facilitate getting gas, water, electricity, cable service, etc. into your house.

The utility easements are not available to the public for their use.

There may be an easement along the front of your property, but this is not the justification for the public walking on "your" lawn.

The fact is (as you note) that your front property line does not extend to the edge of the street. When a developer plats a new development, he retains ownership of the area from the front property line to the street (and the street) so that he may put in utilities before the utility companies become involved. Then, because at some point the developer wants to withdraw, he conveys ownership of that property to the County.

If, in your case the easement is in the front it may be that it was impractical to put the easement in the back. An example of this would be houses that back directly on a multi-modal path along Buena Vista. You will see houses that have birdcages built right up to the wooden fence that is probably the property line. There is no space for a back easement on those lots.

As I often say.........check your individual plat map.

The part that seems to trouble most people is that they are responsible for properly maintaining the strip of property from their front property line to the street and they cannot charge people with trespassing if they walk on it.

I can't answer your question about imperfections in your driveway that is not on your property. It may be that maintaining your driveway is in the same category as maintaining your lawn---you have to do it even though it is not on your property. See what your documents say.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, down in Tampa my front sidewalk suffered major upheaval from oak tree roots and the County came in and repaired the sidewalk because my property line ended on the house side of the sidewalk.

But, my only point, reaching back to my first entry in this discussion is that property lines do not extend to the edge of the street. The area from the property line to the street (usually 10 or 15 feet) is available to the public. Not because it is an easement, but because it does not belong to the property owner.

-----------

Incidentally, when the developer proffers the property, including the paved roads, to the county, the county is not obligated to accept the offer. The offered property must be up to county standards for the county to accept ownership.

My church in Tampa offered the county several hundred yards of paved roadway to be a connector between a dead end street and a major highway. The offer was initially refused because the very expensive and ornate street lights we had installed were too close to the road. We had to remove them all before the roadway was accepted.

Carl,
My site plan shows an easement on the front, the back and a special easement down one side. I am surrounded!