[golfing eagles]

On all the hundreds of RB threads over the years on TOTV, many blamed so-called "snowbirds" for most of the bonehead driving there. A popular rebuttal is "We're from Massachusetts, we know how to drive roundabouts". Having just returned from Mass., I can assure you, YOU DO NOT!!!! No different there than here, maybe even worse.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

On all the hundreds of RB threads over the years on TOTV, many blamed so-called "snowbirds" for most of the bonehead driving there. A popular rebuttal is "We're from Massachusetts, we know how to drive roundabouts". Having just returned from Mass., I can assure you, YOU DO NOT!!!! No different there than here, maybe even worse.

The very first Roundabout was installed in MA, about 10-15 years ago [Massachusetts installed it's first roundabout, 10-15 years ago]. Up until then, we were one of the only states to have "Rotaries", which is a completely different animal and you drive them, entirely differently. (A "Rotary" doesn't have solid marked lanes, the ROW is different and it's basically a free for all.)

Folks from MA who tell you they know about driving in Roundabouts, don't know what they're talking about. We have very few of them and no one really has a clue how to manage one, other than Villagers who come to visit.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

In Connecticut, there's a roundabout (previously known as a "traffic circle" but never a "rotary") at the intersection of 80 and 81, in the Killingworth area. It's been there for longer than my 63 years, and in 1981 it was rebuilt and updated. The difference between it and the ones down here, is that it's all ONE LANE going in, through, and out. Everyone enters into the same singular lane from their prospective roads, travels in a counterclockwise direction until they're ready to exit, and then they exit out from that lane, to a single lane at the other end of the exit.

It's still a roundabout, or traffic circle if you prefer. But it's much easier to navigate because you never have to be "that newcomer" who isn't sure of where he needs to go, and ends up missing his exit and shifting into another lane while in the middle of the circle, thus creating risk of death for everyone else.

All he needs to do is continue around until that exit shows up again and hang a right out of the circle. He won't ever cut anyone off.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

In Connecticut, there's a roundabout (previously known as a "traffic circle" but never a "rotary") at the intersection of 80 and 81, in the Killingworth area. It's been there for longer than my 63 years, and in 1981 it was rebuilt and updated. The difference between it and the ones down here, is that it's all ONE LANE going in, through, and out. Everyone enters into the same singular lane from their prospective roads, travels in a counterclockwise direction until they're ready to exit, and then they exit out from that lane, to a single lane at the other end of the exit.

It's still a roundabout, or traffic circle if you prefer. But it's much easier to navigate because you never have to be "that newcomer" who isn't sure of where he needs to go, and ends up missing his exit and shifting into another lane while in the middle of the circle, thus creating risk of death for everyone else.

All he needs to do is continue around until that exit shows up again and hang a right out of the circle. He won't ever cut anyone off.

But there are plenty of 2 lane RBs in Mass. as well. One lane is not the solution, having DRVING SKILLS is.

[frayedends]

Never seen a roundabout in Massachusetts except 1 that is only 1 lane. I’ve been here 55 years. The one I have seen is actually a rotary but they put a sign calling it a roundabout. But as mentioned I’ve never seen one with 2 marked lanes.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by frayedends

Never seen a roundabout in Massachusetts except 1 that is only 1 lane. I’ve been here 55 years. The one I have seen is actually a rotary but they put a sign calling it a roundabout. But as mentioned I’ve never seen one with 2 marked lanes.

Rotaries in Massachusetts

[frayedends]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Rotaries in Massachusetts

Obviously a flawed article. In one sentence it says rotaries and roundabouts are the same and in another say Mass DOT is switching from one to the other. Makes no sense. But as I said, never seen a marked lane roundabout in Massachusetts. I still live here full time. Wiki has no pics of a roundabout in Massachusetts.

From the wikipedia article, this below is listed as a "roundabout". It is clearly a rotary.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by frayedends

Obviously a flawed article. In one sentence it says rotaries and roundabouts are the same and in another say Mass DOT is switching from one to the other. Makes no sense. But as I said, never seen a marked lane roundabout in Massachusetts. I still live here full time. Wiki has no pics of a roundabout in Massachusetts.

From the wikipedia article, this below is listed as a "roundabout". It is clearly a rotary.

I see several roads meeting at a circle. Call it a roundabout, traffic circle, rotary, or that thing I don't want to acknowledge but there are many of them in MA.

Wiki doesn't do pics, they do words and links. However, if you take those words and paste them into Google maps then you get pics like the above... many of them.

[frayedends]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

I see several roads meeting at a circle. Call it a roundabout, traffic circle, rotary, or that thing I don't want to acknowledge but there are many of them in MA.

Wiki doesn't do pics, they do words and links. However, if you take those words and paste them into Google maps then you get pics like the above... many of them.

Then our differences are just semantics. I consider a roundabout like what we see in Florida, with marked lanes and the requirement to yield to those in the roundabout. Rotaries are similar and you yield if you have to, but you can also merge. Rotaries are larger than roundabout and a bit more of a free-for-all.

There is actually 1 spot near me that is small, 1 lane and I guess I would consider it a roundabout. In true Massachusetts fashion, it is so poorly designed that semi trucks go over the raised center circle because they can't navigate the curve.

This is it here. What I consider different is the pic in my last post is a free-for-all, room for multiple lanes but nothing marked. It's like Chevy Chase looking at Big Ben in European Vacation. The pic below is only 1 lane so can't go nuts. My point overall is that neither of these would teach Massachusetts drivers the rules of a Villages Roundabout, with lanes and posted rules.

[jimhoward]

Its the right of way ambiguity that causes most of the problems, not lack of driving skill, or wrong-headed learning in Massachusetts.

At any exit the inner lane car could be getting off or going around, as could the outer lane car. The convention that one take the outer lane to go 1/4 or 1/2 way around and the inner lane to go 1/2 or 3/4 way around does not resolve this conflict. Nor do any of the posted driving rules.

And both cars are in the Roundabout.

This conflict would be greatly reduced if people used there directionals, but few do.

Survival makes one quickly learn that if you are in the outer lane you always assume the inner lane is getting off and yield. if fact most learn to not even enter the rotary if there is a car in the inner lane, because he is very likely to get off in front of you at your first exit (you are going to your second exit) and which he is fully entitled to do. But that is most of the few accidents that I have seen....inner lane getting off, outer lane going around.

[ElDiabloJoe]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

The very first Roundabout was installed in MA, about 10-15 years ago. Up until then, we were one of the only states to have "Rotaries", which is a completely different animal and you drive them, entirely differently. (A "Rotary" doesn't have solid marked lanes, the ROW is different and it's basically a free for all.)

Folks from MA who tell you they know about driving in Roundabouts, don't know what they're talking about. We have very few of them and no one really has a clue how to manage one, other than Villagers who come to visit.

There has been a roundabout aka traffic circle in downtown Long Beach, CA since at least 1987. Math puts that at 38 years ago - FAR preceding your "first roundabout was installed in MA, about 10-15 years ago." In fact, well over twice as old as that posited by you. Not sure from where your intel derives.

A quick check of the google machine indicates the Long Beach traffic circle was built in 1932. What's that, about 93 years old?

Long Beach's traffic circle is where PCH (no, not OBT) meets the Lakewood Blvd and Los Coyotes Diagonal. If you need to google map it, simply look for Porsche of Long Beach.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by jimhoward

Its the right of way ambiguity that causes most of the problems, not lack of driving skill, or wrong-headed learning in Massachusetts.

At any exit the inner lane car could be getting off or going around, as could the outer lane car. The convention that one take the outer lane to go 1/4 or 1/2 way around and the inner lane to go 1/2 or 3/4 way around does not resolve this conflict. Nor do any of the posted driving rules.

And both cars are in the Roundabout.

...

As has been explained numerous times, there is no ambiguity. If the signs are followed, if the rules are followed, if (apparently not-so) common sense is followed then there is no problem.

The right/outer lane enters the RB and either turns right or goes straight, just as it would at the signalized intersection at Morse and 44.

The left/inner lane enters the RB and either goes straight or turns LEFT, just as it would at the signalized intersection at Morse and 44.

If there is a car already in the RB and approaching where you are about to enter then you yield, just as you would at the signalized intersection at Morse and 44.

If the right/outer lane continues to go around then it is making a left hand turn which is improper and dangerous, just as it would be at the signalized intersection at Morse and 44.

If the left/inner lane exits at the first exit then it is making a right hand turn which is improper and dangerous, just as it would be at the signalized intersection at Morse and 44.

It really is that simple.

[frayedends]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

As has been explained numerous times, there is no ambiguity. If the signs are followed, if the rules are followed, if (apparently not-so) common sense is followed then there is no problem.

The right/outer lane enters the RB and either turns right or goes straight, just as it would at the signalized intersection at Morse and 44.

The left/inner lane enters the RB and either goes straight or turns right, just as it would at the signalized intersection at Morse and 44.

If there is a car already in the RB and approaching where you are about to enter then you yield, just as you would at the signalized intersection at Morse and 44.

If the right/outer lane continues to go around then it is making a left hand turn which is improper and dangerous, just as it would be at the signalized intersection at Morse and 44.

If the left/inner lane exits at the first exit then it is making a right hand turn which is improper and dangerous, just as it would be at the signalized intersection at Morse and 44.

It really is that simple.

You are correct and there is a mistake I made once and only once. I assumed if the right/outer lane was vacant, that I could enter the roundabout. I didn’t think there would be conflict with a car on the inner lane. That was my mistake because that car was exiting at his 2nd or 3rd turn correctly but I was now blocking him because I was going to my second exit. I won’t make that error again.

[frayedends]

Originally Posted by ElDiabloJoe

There has been a roundabout aka traffic circle in downtown Long Beach, CA since at least 1987. Math puts that at 38 years ago - FAR preceding your "first roundabout was installed in MA, about 10-15 years ago." In fact, well over twice as old as that posited by you. Not sure from where your intel derives.

A quick check of the google machine indicates the Long Beach traffic circle was built in 1932. What's that, about 93 years old?

Long Beach's traffic circle is where PCH (no, not OBT) meets the Lakewood Blvd and Los Coyotes Diagonal. If you need to google map it, simply look for Porsche of Long Beach.

What does California have to do with Massachusetts?

[golfing eagles]

Whether you call it a roundabout or a rotary, they still don't know how to drive in one.