[Malsua]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

If your last paragraph is trying to conclude that Trane is a better unit than Carrier, I would disagree.

There is zero doubt in my mind that the older Trane units were better. I get into a lot of homes and I see 12-14 year old homes with replacement Carriers already. Lots of the homes just north of 44 are already on their 2nd sets of units and most of those were built about 2011/12.

I have seen one carrier unit over 20 years old. It is on a 2004 build outside of Sumter. Most of everything up closer to 466 and north is already on the 2nd or 3rd. Many of the originals were Carrier. Yes, they did install Tranes, but even when they switched over to installing Carriers, the Tranes are still working, few of the Carriers are.

I realize the gas(410a) and manufacturing standards have changed, but I'm of the opinion that if you have an older Trane, run it until it stops or insurance makes you change it. Expect your Carrier unit to be dead by 15 and anything over that is bonus.

[jrref]

Originally Posted by Malsua

There is zero doubt in my mind that the older Trane units were better. I get into a lot of homes and I see 12-14 year old homes with replacement Carriers already. Lots of the homes just north of 44 are already on their 2nd sets of units and most of those were built about 2011/12.

I have seen one carrier unit over 20 years old. It is on a 2004 build outside of Sumter. Most of everything up closer to 466 and north is already on the 2nd or 3rd. Many of the originals were Carrier. Yes, they did install Tranes, but even when they switched over to installing Carriers, the Tranes are still working, few of the Carriers are.

I realize the gas(410a) and manufacturing standards have changed, but I'm of the opinion that if you have an older Trane, run it until it stops or insurance makes you change it. Expect your Carrier unit to be dead by 15 and anything over that is bonus.

Trane is definetly more expensive than Carrier. How much? Depends on what you are buying. Is it worth the extra cost? Thats up to you. Typically, Villagers go for the cheapest unit they can get so maybe that's why we don't see a lot of Trane. Also, many don't even understand what they are buying. All they know is some company offered them a system cheaper than the rest so it has to be the best and they get it. Historically, after 15 years, technology has changed and units are more efficient so at that point you are probably better off and will save money in the long run replacing your system under your own power vs holding on to it for another 10 years and repairing it until it dies on the hottest day of the year.

[jrref]

Originally Posted by Malsua

Yes, definitely an inverter heat pump will save energy and have enough juice to get you through peak July. You pay a premium for those but ultimately they are a much higher seer rating, so it'll pay off after some period.

Right you will pay a premium but for the rest of 2025 there are Federal tax credits and others from Carrier that will bring that premium very close to a basic system. After this year, these credits will be gone.

[kilowatt]

21 year old Trane

[Malsua]

Originally Posted by kilowatt

21 year old Trane

Ok, so let's have any old Carriers chime in. Bueller, Bueller?

[TomSpasm]

Originally Posted by Malsua

Ok, so let's have any old Carriers chime in. Bueller, Bueller?

13.5 years so far w/Carrier.

[Malsua]

Originally Posted by TomSpasm

13.5 years so far w/Carrier.

Most Carriers will make it to 15. Few Carriers will make it to 18. I think it's the label . When I get to the home and the Sun has bleached off the label, I just advise the buyer to budget for a new systems sooner rather than later. The label goes, the system is a goner

The other thing is that some of the Insurance companies are requiring everything, Roof/AC/WH to be under 15 years old. I tell people that I know of two insurers they should get quotes from first before you change out working equipment. I don't get anything from those companies other than the satisfaction that we aren't disposing of equipment that is working properly.

[jrref]

Originally Posted by Malsua

Most Carriers will make it to 15. Few Carriers will make it to 18. I think it's the label . When I get to the home and the Sun has bleached off the label, I just advise the buyer to budget for a new systems sooner rather than later. The label goes, the system is a goner

The other thing is that some of the Insurance companies are requiring everything, Roof/AC/WH to be under 15 years old. I tell people that I know of two insurers they should get quotes from first before you change out working equipment. I don't get anything from those companies other than the satisfaction that we aren't disposing of equipment that is working properly.

I would tend to agree based on what I've seen and heard. This is why even if your system is only 10 years old and you have the budget, it may be prudent to change your system out this year for one of the variable speed inverter systems like the Carrier Infinity Greenspeed that qualifies for the $2,000 Federal Tax Credits vs waiting a couple of years and paying significantly more for the same system or have to go with a basic single stage system because the variable speed systems will be too far out of reach by then.

[Malsua]

Originally Posted by jrref

I would tend to agree based on what I've seen and heard. This is why even if your system is only 10 years old and you have the budget, it may be prudent to change your system out this year for one of the variable speed inverter systems like the Carrier Infinity Greenspeed that qualifies for the $2,000 Federal Tax Credits vs waiting a couple of years and paying significantly more for the same system or have to go with a basic single stage system because the variable speed systems will be too far out of reach by then.

For what it's worth, we installed some solar tubes that qualified for a small tax credit. When I inserted it into the tax forms, I didn't get the credit because our tax liability was too low. We had a lot of deductions(First full year of my business) and credits for that year and paid very little in tax, so the credit went kaput. It was supposed to carry over to 24, but I never bothered to check.

I'm just saying that if you don't pay much in taxes, a tax credit isn't very useful.

[jrref]

Originally Posted by Malsua

For what it's worth, we installed some solar tubes that qualified for a small tax credit. When I inserted it into the tax forms, I didn't get the credit because our tax liability was too low. We had a lot of deductions(First full year of my business) and credits for that year and paid very little in tax, so the credit went kaput. It was supposed to carry over to 24, but I never bothered to check.

I'm just saying that if you don't pay much in taxes, a tax credit isn't very useful.

That is true but many are not in your situation which is why you need to look at your specific situation and see if it makes sense.

Either way, just wanted to let everyone know who do pay taxes, that the 25C Federal Tax credits are not being renewed and will go away at the end of 2025. Even if the high efficiency system you were looking at costs the same amount in 2026, it will cost $2,000 more without the tax credits.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by jrref

That is true but many are not in your situation which is why you need to look at your specific situation and see if it makes sense.

Either way, just wanted to let everyone know who do pay taxes, that the 25C Federal Tax credits are not being renewed and will go away at the end of 2025. Even if the high efficiency system you were looking at costs the same amount in 2026, it will cost $2,000 more without the tax credits.

In my opinion, ending energy tax credits is a good idea.

[elevatorman]

Originally Posted by ithos

I believe that if you can afford a variable speed compressor you will have significantly lower electric rates and the life of the compressor will be much longer not to mention it is great for humidity control.

The third – and most crucial law for energy savings – reveals that the power consumed by these components is related to the cube of their speed. So, a small reduction in speed can lead to a significant drop in power usage and, consequently, energy costs.
What is the Affinity Law – and what does it have to do with your HVAC system?
*

The sales people tell you will save 30% on your heating and cooling costs with a variable speed compressor. My 16 year old system cost is high in the summer for 3 months maybe $100 per month. According to SECO over the last 12 months I spent $583 running cooling and heating. 30% of that is $174.90 / year. Multiply that by 16 years I have lived here I could have saved $2798.00.

[jrref]

Originally Posted by elevatorman

The sales people tell you will save 30% on your heating and cooling costs with a variable speed compressor. My 16 year old system cost is high in the summer for 3 months maybe $100 per month. According to SECO over the last 12 months I spent $583 running cooling and heating. 30% of that is $174.90 / year. Multiply that by 16 years I have lived here I could have saved $2798.00.

I can't validate your data but in my home my electric bill is about $180-$225 in the hot months. So far for the first month having the system, I'm saving about $50/month. So, that's about $500/year x 16 would be about $8,000. I have a 2600 sqft home but if you have a smaller home then your savings will be less. Also, depending on what you set the thermostat to, etc., will also affect how much you pay for your HVAC system. Lot's of variables.

Regardless, the point of getting a variable speed inverter system vs a single stage unit is not primarily for the energy savings but for the comfort, quietness and longevity of the system. Since we don't know where energy costs are going in the next 10 years, it's probably best to get the most efficient system you can afford. With the tax credits and rebates, currently a variable speed system will not be that much more than a basic single stage system and that's the point. Once the tax credits go away at the end of the year and more of the tarriffs kick-in then I think the more expensive systems may be out of reach for many.

[jrref]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

In my opinion, ending energy tax credits is a good idea.

Many agree with you but we knew it was coming since these tax credits are from the green energy initiative and once they go away I'm not sure we are going to see them in this fashon again.

So, in my case, I made the decision to get my insulation done and my HVAC system was old enough to justify changing that out too so I could take advantage of the credits. But everyone has their own situation and needs to make the decisions that work for them. Again the purpose of the thread was to make people aware of what's going on so if they can take advantage of the credits, then at least they know now is the time to make any decisions vs waiting another year or two.

[Risuli]

Originally Posted by jrref

I would tend to agree based on what I've seen and heard. This is why even if your system is only 10 years old and you have the budget, it may be prudent to change your system out this year for one of the variable speed inverter systems like the Carrier Infinity Greenspeed that qualifies for the $2,000 Federal Tax Credits vs waiting a couple of years and paying significantly more for the same system or have to go with a basic single stage system because the variable speed systems will be too far out of reach by then.

This thread got me interested. Our HVAC is a 9 1/2 years old GAS furnace & A/C (16 Seer). Just got through with a replacement estimate from Sunshine A/C. I may have missed it in an earlier post but the $2000 tax credit is ONLY FOR HEAT PUMP replacement. Gas furnaces do not qualify for anything other than a $450 credit (by Carrier).

That said, for replacement of our furnace/AC, all rebates, etc. considered, the estimate provided for either gas furnace & A/C or heat pump & A/C, both (~ 22 Seer) Carrier Infinity systems, only amounts to a $800 difference (~ $15K v. $14K).