[NJblue]

Originally Posted by Gil Chapin

OK, that makes sense. It's perhaps a question of how many of us actually do that... Not that I wasn't cautious about entering anyway, but now that I know that, I'll wait even longer. Thanks for the tip.

Gil, you point out another risk with the circles. When I am in the left/inside lane approaching where I have to exit I too am concerned about the car who wants to enter the roundabout at the entrance just before my exit not yielding to me since he sees that the outer lane is free. What I find myself having to do (in addition to using my turn signal in hopes that the entering car will see it), despite it being technically against the guidelines, is slightly drift into the right/outer lane before my exit. Hopefully, if the entering car sees this move they will not try to enter.

[NJblue]

Originally Posted by EdVinMass

Why not, it's a noble dream.

And my solution is unlikely to become reality either. Defensive driving is the only alternative at this point.

Unlike speeding, for which there is a clear motive from the perspective of the violator, improper use of the roundabouts has no motive. A person using the wrong lane does not gain anything. Hence it hardly seems like a "dream" to try something which has never before been done - enforcement - to attempt to educate the public about proper roundabout usage. Besides, even enforcement of speeding laws does at least curtail the problem ... just as would enforcement of roundabout rules.

[momesu]

Originally Posted by Gil Chapin

There were a few questions about my posting from the other day which I will try to address.

By "inside" and "outside" lanes, I meant the "left" and "right" lanes respectively, making reference to the circle and which lane was closer to the center of the circle.

I do have the brochure and have read it and I thought I understood it. But my concern persists for the case in which, even with everyone following the rules, there is still considerable risk of a collision. Please do correct me If I've not realized something that would make this not so.

I'll try to clarify the case I'm concerned about. I'm entering a two lane roundabout in the right/outer lane with the intention of going to the 2nd/180 degree exit (I don't have my brochure at hand, but I'm pretty sure that's permitted). Another vehicle has already entered the inner/left lane one entrance before me with the intention of taking his second/180 degree exit - one exit before mine. He and I are now next to each other. I intend to continue past his exit (that's why there are dotted lane lines across my path at his exit and that's why there are straight arrows just past his exit in my lane...). I probably can't see his turn signal (which, of course, as required by law, he is using to indicate his intentions to exit the roundabout) and he can't see that I'm not signalling for an exit. He may presume, because he read the brochure and it says he can do this, that he can exit at will because the brochure showed both lanes exiting together when you both go "straight through". Except he didn't realize that I'm not taking the same "straight through" path he's expecting. My second exit is the next one. So either he turns into me when he crosses into my lane or I hit him when he gets a little ahead of me and crosses my lane - even though we both followed "the rules". My point is that whenever you're in a roundabout, you probably don't know the other driver's situation and you have to presume the worst, even if it means yielding in a situation where you thought you had the right of way.

Too frequently, I see vehicles in the inside/left lane in the roundabout take an exit without looking to see what the vehicle near them in the outer/right lane is going to do. It's very scary.

I know... I know... I'll go away now.

This is why two lane roundabouts only work when the people entering and staying in the right most lane immediately exit at the next exit. If they can go to the second exit then there is always a potential problem with people in the left most lane trying to get out of the roundabout.
Suzanne

[LivingLarge]

Originally Posted by momesu

This is why two lane roundabouts only work when the people entering and staying in the right most lane immediately exit at the next exit. If they can go to the second exit then there is always a potential problem with people in the left most lane trying to get out of the roundabout.
Suzanne

Why would there be an issue with that? The outside lane goes straight (has to, but make sure they are!) and the inside lane goes straight or keeps going around.

[pooh]

Just follow the arrows...it's as simple as that!

[Mikeod]

Originally Posted by pooh

Just follow the arrows...it's as simple as that!

Actually, follow the arrows that are painted at your entrance to the roundabout. They show the right lane going either right or straight and the left lane going straight or left (third exit). Once in the roundabout, the arrows can cause confusion.

The points made above about people not waiting until BOTH lanes are clear before entering the roundabout are the crux of the problem. If drivers followed this and used the proper lanes, the other problems would occur less. You wouldn't have to worry about the person on your right blocking your exit because there wouldn't be anyone on your right. You wouldn't have to worry about the driver in the inner/left lane cutting off your path to go straight because they wouldn't be there.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by mikeod

Actually, follow the arrows that are painted at your entrance to the roundabout. They show the right lane going either right or straight and the left lane going straight or left (third exit). Once in the roundabout, the arrows can cause confusion.

The points made above about people not waiting until BOTH lanes are clear before entering the roundabout are the crux of the problem. If drivers followed this and used the proper lanes, the other problems would occur less. You wouldn't have to worry about the person on your right blocking your exit because there wouldn't be anyone on your right. You wouldn't have to worry about the driver in the inner/left lane cutting off your path to go straight because they wouldn't be there.

THAT is my philosophy!

[LittleDog]

If I see someone in the inner lane on a roundabout I will not enter the outer lane until he has gone past my entrance. I am unable to tell whether he will be exiting the next exit unless he uses a turn signal to show that. Best to wait.

John

[Avista]

Originally Posted by jrheydt

If I see someone in the inner lane on a roundabout I will not enter the outer lane until he has gone past my entrance. I am unable to tell whether he will be exiting the next exit unless he uses a turn signal to show that. Best to wait.

John

I agree!

[EdV]

Originally Posted by NJblue

Unlike speeding, for which there is a clear motive from the perspective of the violator, improper use of the roundabouts has no motive..

The last time I got a speeding ticket (over 30 years ago) it was because I didn’t notice that the speed limit had dropped from 50 to 35. And how many of you out there have glanced down at your speedometer only to find that you and all the other cars around you are speeding. You didn’t get a ticket, but you should have even though you had no motivation to do so.

And as for motives in the roundabouts, park by a roundabout exit some day and count the number of vehicles that exit without signaling. You’ll be amazed. You think that’s because they don’t know that they’re supposed to signal when turning?

[graciegirl]

This morning about 8:00 we were driving down Buena Vista and there had been an accident at the traffic circle that connects Glenview Country Club and runs alongside the Savannah Center. A SUV had crashed into the entrance posts at the front of the Glenview CC where everyone walks their dogs and feeds the ducks. It was a direct crash into the pillar there. A police car was there but all occupants were gone from the car and the doors were open.

Does anyone know if those people are gonna be o.k.? Their car doesn't look o.k.

Sweetie speculated it was either a health related issue or someone was trying to avoid hitting someone in the traffic circle.

[NJblue]

Originally Posted by EdVinMass

The last time I got a speeding ticket (over 30 years ago) it was because I didn’t notice that the speed limit had dropped from 50 to 35. And how many of you out there have glanced down at your speedometer only to find that you and all the other cars around you are speeding. You didn’t get a ticket, but you should have even though you had no motivation to do so.

And as for motives in the roundabouts, park by a roundabout exit some day and count the number of vehicles that exit without signaling. You’ll be amazed. You think that’s because they don’t know that they’re supposed to signal when turning?

If the lack of turn signals were the crux of the problem I would agree with you. However, while turn signals may help in some circumstances, the reality is that the problems occur because people who are essentially parallel with each other cross into each other's lane. This is caused by improper lane usage with each person thinking they are in the right. Because of the proximity of the cars to each other, turn signals are at best of secondary value since you can't see the other's signal when they are right next to you.

I'll agree that the roundabouts could be much better designed, but to change them at this point would be prohibitively expensive. Since we clearly have more police resources than we need (witness the silly crackdown on golf carts), these resources could be used to ticket/warn drivers using the roundabouts in the wrong manner. Every person who recognizes that what they thought was the right procedure is actually wrong becomes one less accident waiting to happen.

[EdV]

Originally Posted by NJblue

If the lack of turn signals were the crux of the problem I would agree with you..

I’ll be sure to pass on your sentiments to the widow of the cart driver that was T-Boned at the El Camino Real/Morse Blvd roundabout by a car that failed to indicate its intention to exit the roundabout.

Originally Posted by NJblue

....I'll agree that the roundabouts could be much better designed...

I knew you’d see the light eventually. But I’ll tell you what. In the spirit of compromise, you get the cops to ticket lane violators, I’ll get them to ticket the thousands of signal violators and then we’ll use the fines to fund the roundabout re-do. OK?

[NJblue]

Originally Posted by EdVinMass

I’ll be sure to pass on your sentiments to the widow of the cart driver that was T-Boned at the El Camino Real/Morse Blvd roundabout by a car that failed to indicate its intention to exit the roundabout.

I'd need to know the specifics of the crash to know whether failure to signal was the root cause, but I tend to doubt it. If the drivers were following the prescribed lane and yielding guidelines, a turn signal is not really required to provide safety. A turn signal is only useful to indicate your intent to exit to someone who has not followed the guidelines ... and even then is only useful if the trailing car is far enough back to see the signal.

[LivingLarge]

Originally Posted by jrheydt

If I see someone in the inner lane on a roundabout I will not enter the outer lane until he has gone past my entrance. I am unable to tell whether he will be exiting the next exit unless he uses a turn signal to show that. Best to wait.

John

Nice of you to say that but you know that's what you HAVE to do, right? You cannot enter either lane until they have gone past your entrance. Both lanes need to be clear to enter the roundabout. That is the very first rule listed on the brochure.