Talk of The Villages Florida
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Talk of The Villages Florida (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/)
-   The Villages, Florida, General Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/)
-   -   Roundabouts (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/roundabouts-141546/)

Mikeod 02-07-2015 10:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonanza (Post 1008019)
The fact of the matter is that nothing moves more smoothly than Morse north of 466. Granted, it is only one lane in each direction.
It is noteworthy that each merging village coming on to Morse has a stop sign before you can enter.
Even more noteworthy than that, you hardly hear of an accident because of this arrangement.
You're kidding, right? Yes, the traffic on Morse moves smoothly. But the people waiting at those stop signs to enter Morse below Rio Grande have an awful time trying to get out. At this time of year, Morse is a constant stream of traffic. I've frequently seen solid lines of traffic from the San Marino light south way past the postal station. I've seen backups from the gate at 466 filling both lanes almost back to 466 while the two lanes go through the gate and merge into one lane. And similar lines of cars going south from Rio Grande.

Sure the traffic on Morse flows well, but it's hell for those trying to get onto it from their neighborhoods.

Polar Bear 02-07-2015 11:11 AM
Roundabouts
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by slipcovers (Post 1008110)
I too am from Boston, and drive rotary everyday. However, Polar Bear has an engineering degree in traffic management, I believe, so I will trust his opinion. POLAR, am I correct?
Yeah. I do, slipcovers. And thanks for your vote of confidence. [emoji4]

But I do understand that everybody has their own experience and opinions regarding roundabouts. To many they are new and unusual, take some getting-used-to, and tend to elicit strong emotions.

Now I'm bow out again...and I really mean it this time[emoji844][emoji6]

Bogie Shooter 02-07-2015 11:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonanza (Post 1008019)
The fact of the matter is that nothing moves more smoothly than Morse north of 466. Granted, it is only one lane in each direction.
It is noteworthy that each merging village coming on to Morse has a stop sign before you can enter.
Even more noteworthy than that, you hardly hear of an accident because of this arrangement.
Wasn't there a death on Morse just recently?

Bonanza 02-09-2015 01:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter (Post 1008150)
Wasn't there a death on Morse just recently?
Yes. A golf cart turned directly into a car.
The man probably shouldn't have been driving anything.
I believe he was in his 80s.
:eek:

Bonanza 02-09-2015 01:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter123 (Post 1006857)
The subject has changed so I guess Bogie was right. He's always right!

Oh yeah, without the gates, golf carts don't stand a chance, especially during snowbird season.

Walter -- let's not lose sight of the fact that cars have the right of way.

Bonanza 02-09-2015 01:58 AM
[QUOTE=Laurie2;1006862]You are right, Walter123. . .
Why did the golf cart cross the road?
To get to the other side.
And without the gates, the odds of that happening would be greatly reduced.
Our gates save lives.[QUOTE]

Our gates don't save lives.
You go through a gate and immediately enter a circle --
a circle that causes many or almost many accidents.

Bonanza 02-09-2015 02:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 1007148)
You lay down with dogs, you get up with fleas.
Does that have something to do with this thread???

Bonanza 02-09-2015 02:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter123 (Post 1007456)
Don't fix it if it ain't broken. It's the people that are broken so no matter what is done, there will still be broken people that don't understand, don't care, shouldn't be driving, etc, etc, etc.
You are correct.
It IS the people.
That is exactly why the circles don't work.
Bulldoze 'em!

Bonanza 02-09-2015 02:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeod (Post 1008129)
You're kidding, right? Yes, the traffic on Morse moves smoothly. But the people waiting at those stop signs to enter Morse below Rio Grande have an awful time trying to get out. At this time of year, Morse is a constant stream of traffic. I've frequently seen solid lines of traffic from the San Marino light south way past the postal station. I've seen backups from the gate at 466 filling both lanes almost back to 466 while the two lanes go through the gate and merge into one lane. And similar lines of cars going south from Rio Grande.

Sure the traffic on Morse flows well, but it's hell for those trying to get onto it from their neighborhoods.
Uhhh . . . no, I'm not kidding.

Those who are waiting at the stop signs aren't waiting that long. When the light changes at Rio Grande is what permits them to get out because that light is what gives them the time for them to move. I've never seen many cars backed up at a stop sign waiting to enter Morse. A few cars, yes. But many cars, no. Very often, there is a lull in the flow of traffic anyway.

Once the light changes, everyone gets through the light. It isn't any different from any other traffic light, even on 441 which is what I call traffic.

The backups at the light at 466 going south are the same thing. When the light changes, all the traffic gets through. No big deal; that's what traffic lights are for.

tomjbud 02-09-2015 09:24 AM
A few days ago, I witnessed a car going the wrong direction through a traffic circle! Luckily, everyone stopped and waited for the person to go through.:shrug:

graciegirl 02-09-2015 10:45 AM
First it makes me sad when people move here and are not happy, Then it makes me mad when they want to change things.

Traffic, and waiting at restaurants and people clogging the grocery and even the church aisles is always greater or worse during the high season of January, February and March.

The circles are simple. Wait until there is no one in the circle approaching you. Enter in the right lane if you are turning right or going straight. Enter in the left lane if you are turning left. When exiting from the left lane be sure no one is behind you in the right lane. Don't drive NEXT to anyone in a circle. Allow them to get ahead of you, or behind you and watch what they are doing.

Practice in the middle of the night when no one is there.

Remember to drive as if everyone else is a crazy person......because many of them are. Don't honk your horn. PERIOD. It shows you aren't from Ohio.

LittleDog 02-09-2015 10:56 AM
The roundabout that I have the most potential accidents is the one where Stillwater Trail meets Morse Blvd. One time as I was going around the circle a car shot out of the right hand side and proceeded to cut me off. He was heading to the Morse bridge. Because he cut me off I had to go around the circle again just to head north on Morse. Today I was heading north and was signaling for a right turn to head to the bridge. All of a sudden I heard a blast of a car right behind me that I guess cut him off. I don't know where he came from as he wasn't behind me in the circle. He must have entered the circle right behind me and certainly didn't yield for those in the circle. My wife said she also didn't see him. These people coming thru that gate to enter Morse must not realize there is a traffic circle there. :confused:

John

Walter123 02-09-2015 10:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 1009178)
First it makes me sad when people move here and are not happy, Then it makes me mad when they want to change things.

Traffic, and waiting at restaurants and people clogging the grocery and even the church aisles is always greater or worse during the high season of January, February and March.

The circles are simple. Wait until there is no one in the circle approaching you. Enter in the right lane if you are turning right or going straight. Enter in the left lane if you are turning left. When exiting from the left lane be sure no one is behind you in the right lane. Don't drive NEXT to anyone in a circle. Allow them to get ahead of you, or behind you and watch what they are doing.

Practice in the middle of the night when no one is there.

Remember to drive as if everyone else is a crazy person......because many of them are. Don't honk your horn. PERIOD. It shows you aren't from Ohio.
Correction.....Enter in the left lane (inside lane) if you are going straight or left. :shrug:

graciegirl 02-09-2015 11:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter123 (Post 1009185)
Correction.....Enter in the left lane (inside lane) if you are going straight or left. :shrug:

Is he right???? Somebody show the graphic.

dbussone 02-09-2015 11:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 1009187)
Is he right???? Somebody show the graphic.
Walter is correct!

graciegirl 02-09-2015 11:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbussone (Post 1009192)
Walter is correct!

Here is shows we both are correct...;Navigating The Villages Roundabouts

From the link above;

"If you intend to travel through the roundabout and continue straight ahead, it can be appropriate to use either lane to enter and travel through the roundabout. The only concern in this case is that you should make sure you stay in the same lane throughout and also be sure to use your turn signal when you are ready to exit. If you are exiting from the inside lane, be careful that there isn’t a vehicle in the outside lane that intends to keep circling. Not everyone is aware of this guideline, so be careful in these situations. "

Walter123 02-09-2015 11:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 1009193)
Here is shows we both are correct...;Navigating The Villages Roundabouts

From the link above;

"If you intend to travel through the roundabout and continue straight ahead, it can be appropriate to use either lane to enter and travel through the roundabout. The only concern in this case is that you should make sure you stay in the same lane throughout and also be sure to use your turn signal when you are ready to exit. If you are exiting from the inside lane, be careful that there isn’t a vehicle in the outside lane that intends to keep circling. Not everyone is aware of this guideline, so be careful in these situations. "
We are not both correct. You said the left lane is for turning left when it is really for going straight OR turning left. No wonder people get confused.

just saying....We are all wrong sometimes, even you.

kittygilchrist 02-09-2015 11:26 AM
EWhen I first moved here I studied this issue to the depth of talking to local law officers, studied RB design research, got county stats on RB accidents, contrasting the best practice brochure against laws for federal highway markings....and....

1. best practices and what we all tell each other to do in RBs does not match federal highway markings, so newbies do not know we made our own rules

2. Not all RBs are designed with proper impedance of speed by the angle of approach into the circle. Lanes should come in rather head on to the circle for that purpose.

3. Research indicates we have likely saved lives and accidents and experienced accelerated ease of traffic because of RBs.

4. Personally, I approach the thing as if it is normal highway where my job is to yield to what is oncoming, change lanes when I am not going to impede someone, and wait for anybody clueless, without blowing my horn (@GG).

5. Finally, I was almost hit recently and encourage all to be careful in new construction areas. At Morse and Pinellas, of all places, HQ for Public Safety, new traffic is buzzing all 4, all four, directions now, and some people are not used to watching for it. Additionally, traffic coming north on morse is coming Way too fast..

6. Summary: never assume that having the right of way means you get to go first.

Mikeod 02-09-2015 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonanza (Post 1009018)
Uhhh . . . no, I'm not kidding.

Those who are waiting at the stop signs aren't waiting that long. When the light changes at Rio Grande is what permits them to get out because that light is what gives them the time for them to move. I've never seen many cars backed up at a stop sign waiting to enter Morse. A few cars, yes. But many cars, no. Very often, there is a lull in the flow of traffic anyway.

Once the light changes, everyone gets through the light. It isn't any different from any other traffic light, even on 441 which is what I call traffic.

The backups at the light at 466 going south are the same thing. When the light changes, all the traffic gets through. No big deal; that's what traffic lights are for.
Obviously you missed my point entirely. I agree that traffic flows well on Morse. Yes, all the traffic gets through the lights at Rio Grande and 466. Both those facts result in a steady stream of traffic flowing north and south. It's easy to dismiss the difficulty residents have trying to get onto Morse from those side streets when your interest is how smoothly traffic flows on Morse. If it's so easy to do, why did they have to build a cart bridge so people can get to the Mail station near Carrera Dr.? Because people in that neighborhood couldn't get onto northbound Morse to get their mail during this season.


The point is that the roundabouts you despise perform a valuable function in letting vehicles enter the main roads far more easily than the stop signs you prefer.

Walter123 02-09-2015 11:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kittygilchrist (Post 1009207)
When I first moved here I studied this issue to the depth of talking to local law officers, studied RB design research, got county stats on RB accidents, contrasting the best practice brochure against laws for federal highway markings....and....

1. best practices and what we all tell each other to do in RBs does not match federal highway markings, so newbies do not know we made our own rules

2. Not all RBs are designed with proper impedance of speed by the angle of approach into the circle. Lanes should come in rather head on to the circle for that purpose.

3. Research indicates we have likely saved lives and accidents and experienced accelerated ease of traffic because of RBs.

4. Personally, I approach the thing as if it is normal highway where my job is to yield to what is oncoming, change lanes when I am not going to impede someone, and wait for anybody clueless, without blowing my horn (@GG).

5. Finally, I was almost hit recently and encourage all to be careful in new construction areas. At Morse and Pinellas, of all places, HQ for Public Safety, new traffic is buzzing all 4, all four, directions now, and some people are not used to watching for it. Additionally, somebody forgot to put two lanes in the east side of the RB. Sooooo, we have traffic from three directions and basically crisscrossing ingress and egress across only one lane.

6. Summary: never assume that having the right of way means you get to go first.
Not sure I agree with not using your horn. If it looks like someone is going to hit me I will take evasive action and blow my horn to alert the other driver. My only concern is that if that person is from Ohio they might not know what the sound is and be startled because they don't honk in Ohio.

Mikeod 02-09-2015 11:47 AM
[quote=Bonanza;1009012]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurie2 (Post 1006862)
You are right, Walter123. . .
Why did the golf cart cross the road?
To get to the other side.
And without the gates, the odds of that happening would be greatly reduced.
Our gates save lives.[QUOTE]

Our gates don't save lives.
You go through a gate and immediately enter a circle --
a circle that causes many or almost many accidents.
I assume you have hard statistics on the "many accidents" in the "circles" that contradicts that of professional traffic engineers. I would like that link, please.

Bogie Shooter 02-09-2015 12:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter123 (Post 1009214)
Not sure I agree with not using your horn. If it looks like someone is going to hit me I will take evasive action and blow my horn to alert the other driver. My only concern is that if that person is from Ohio they might not know what the sound is and be startled because they don't honk in Ohio.
Tee Hee, Gracie are you listening? :jester:

CFrance 02-09-2015 01:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 1009178)
First it makes me sad when people move here and are not happy, Then it makes me mad when they want to change things.

Traffic, and waiting at restaurants and people clogging the grocery and even the church aisles is always greater or worse during the high season of January, February and March.

The circles are simple. Wait until there is no one in the circle approaching you. Enter in the right lane if you are turning right or going straight. Enter in the left lane if you are turning left. When exiting from the left lane be sure no one is behind you in the right lane. Don't drive NEXT to anyone in a circle. Allow them to get ahead of you, or behind you and watch what they are doing.

Practice in the middle of the night when no one is there.

Remember to drive as if everyone else is a crazy person......because many of them are. Don't honk your horn. PERIOD. It shows you aren't from Ohio.
So are you supposed to come to a complete stop when some bozo enters behind you and goes 3/4 of the way around like you are but in the right (wrong) lane? Subjecting yourself to danger/anger from anyone behind you? Yes, you must.

The Villages are great, but not perfect, and these two-lane roundabouts are one of its imperfections.:confused:

kittygilchrist 02-09-2015 01:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFrance (Post 1009282)
So are you supposed to come to a complete stop when some bozo enters behind you and goes 3/4 of the way around like you are but in the right (wrong) lane? Subjecting yourself to danger/anger from anyone behind you? Yes, you must.

The Villages are great, but not perfect, and these two-lane roundabouts are one of its imperfections.:confused:
Good video...

Yield to all lanes....

http://mntransportationresearch.org/...ne-roundabout/

tomwed 02-09-2015 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kittygilchrist (Post 1009292)
Is this what they said? I watched it.

Stop for vehicles in the round about. [I think they said all vehicles. That means even the ones that are not near you.]
Don't stop in the middle of the round about except for pedestrians and bikes. [but they have cross walks so this does not apply down here]
Don't change lanes. [We have dashed not solid lines between the lanes.]

Walter123 02-09-2015 01:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter (Post 1009265)
Tee Hee, Gracie are you listening? :jester:
No comments from the peanut gallery please.

graciegirl 02-09-2015 02:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFrance (Post 1009282)
So are you supposed to come to a complete stop when some bozo enters behind you and goes 3/4 of the way around like you are but in the right (wrong) lane? Subjecting yourself to danger/anger from anyone behind you? Yes, you must.

The Villages are great, but not perfect, and these two-lane roundabouts are one of its imperfections.:confused:

Video: How to Navigate a Multi-Lane Roundabout | Crossroads

CFrance 02-09-2015 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 1009310)
Oh, I've seen all the videos and brochures and read the signs. I know all the rules and advice about being aware of anyone around you 360 degrees. Still doesn't solve the problem of you being in the correct inside lane to go 3/4 the way around when some idiot sneaking in behind you and doing the same thing in the outside lane. I don't have eyes in the back of my head, and sooner or later an accident will occur. I go out of my way to get to my destination without using RABs, esp. In high traffic season.

Two lane RABs in an aging community where many have no prior experience with RABs where they came from... Bad idea.

Miles42 02-09-2015 02:20 PM
Bad drivers are bad drivers period. Not isolated to snowbirds, northerners, southerners etc. folks that drive with their head up their butt have no idea where they are from or where they are going.

JoMar 02-09-2015 02:25 PM
Will this thread never end......:bowdown:

OpusX1 02-09-2015 02:28 PM
I know some people don't like the roundabouts but the powers that be, the developer, the traffic consultants, the traffic engineers, the county planners and finally the county engineers office must like them because they keep building them. We have been here six years and I think 8 or 10 new roundabouts have been built. They are not going to change the design because it works.

CFrance 02-09-2015 02:31 PM
Or else they are not going to change the design because they are blind to reality.

Bonanza 02-09-2015 02:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpusX1 (Post 1009332)
I know some people don't like the roundabouts but the powers that be, the developer, the traffic consultants, the traffic engineers, the county planners and finally the county engineers office must like them because they keep building them. We have been here six years and I think 8 or 10 new roundabouts have been built. They are not going to change the design because it works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFrance (Post 1009335)
Or else they are not going to change the design because they are blind to reality.

It's obvious to me that the circles DON'T work.
Why else would there be five (5) pages of comments already, and it appears that the thread isn't even finished!
So I ask you . . .who's stupid???

OpusX1 02-09-2015 02:55 PM
Well I don't think it's the traffic engineers, traffic consultants, the county engineers or the county planners.
I never said anyone was stupid, I just pointed out that people with advanced degrees in traffic engineering designed the roundabouts.

cquick 02-09-2015 03:02 PM
I like them! I wouldn't want a 4 way stop at every corner!

Bogie Shooter 02-09-2015 03:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoMar (Post 1009329)
Will this thread never end......:bowdown:
Well no, there are only 190 posts.............

tomwed 02-09-2015 03:14 PM
And a one, and a two

This is the thread that never ends
Yes it goes on and on my friend
Some people started reading it
Not knowing what it was
But people kept adding more just because

Dr Winston O Boogie jr 02-09-2015 03:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonanza (Post 1009345)

It's obvious to me that the circles DON'T work.
Why else would there be five (5) pages of comments already, and it appears that the thread isn't even finished!
So I ask you . . .who's stupid???
It's b=obvious to me after driving here for three years and observing that the round abouts do work.

The reason that we have five pages of comments is that a very few people on this forum don't agree. Don't forget, about half of these post are people saying that the circles work. And you also should realize that the people who post on this site are a very small percentage of the people that live here and only a small percentage of them are complaining about round abouts.

I haven't read every post, but I haven't heard anyone call anyone stupid. So I don't think that we should start now.

As I said, I can't recall any accidents at any of the round abouts. I'm sure there must have been some as there are accidents on all types of roads, but I haven't read or heard about one at a circle.

graciegirl 02-09-2015 03:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonanza (Post 1009345)
It's obvious to me that the circles DON'T work.
Why else would there be five (5) pages of comments already, and it appears that the thread isn't even finished!
So I ask you . . .who's stupid???

Why is it obvious to you that the circles don't work? I read back page after page after page in search on all things pertaining to roundabouts, going back six years and I can find only two mentions of an accident in a roundabout. One was a huge moving truck that caused an obstruction. The other was a drunken truck driver who plowed into the middle down by the dog park where there is a building in the center.

Maybe I don't know what I am talking about and someone can remind me of accidents. And of course because of open discussion they will.

Cisco Kid 02-09-2015 03:38 PM
I have navigated them several dozen time now, and have not ran over anyone.
It is fair to say I suffer from low wattage .


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