[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by skyking

OMG! This could be up to 99 cents in some months.

There is something called a principle.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

There is something called a principle.

Correct. Stealing is stealing, regardless of the amount.

[daniel200]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

Do the "street urchins" tell you they're going to "pinch a dollar" and give you the option to "opt-out" of having said dollar pinched?

Actually, the worst place for these pickpockets is in St. Peters Square in Rome. And the local official have posted everywhere to beware of these young pickpockets … So yes, i was warned but went anyway, does that make it right? I could have opted out of the visit!

What SECO is doing is theft. They have no right to declare that they will keep MY money if I fail to respond to their notice.

What is to stop any person or business from sending you an email that they are going to take YOUR money for any amount unless you “opt out”?

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by daniel200

Actually, the worst place for these pickpockets is in St. Peters Square in Rome. And the local official have posted everywhere to beware of these young pickpockets … So yes, i was warned but went anyway, does that make it right? I could have opted out of the visit!

What SECO is doing is theft. They have no right to declare that they will keep MY money if I fail to respond to their notice.

What is to stop any person or business from sending you an email that they are going to take YOUR money for any amount unless you “opt out”?

If you believe what SECO is doing is theft and that they have no right to do that, our legal system is there to help you. Please let us know how your lawsuit goes.

What is to stop any business from doing the same? Nothing, it happens all the time. Xfinity rates, credit card fees, software licenses.... All come with a disclaimer that the cost will increase unless you opt out by a certain time.

SECO is not getting any of your money, the 501(c)(3) is. The only reason they have any of your extra pennies is you accepted their terms and allowed them to. The only reason they will get any more pennies is because your time is spent here complaining about the donation rather than going through the simple steps to opt-out...the same steps you could have taken in the 120 days before Jan. 1, 2023.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

If you believe what SECO is doing is theft and that they have no right to do that, our legal system is there to help you. Please let us know how your lawsuit goes.

What is to stop any business from doing the same? Nothing, it happens all the time. Xfinity rates, credit card fees, software licenses.... All come with a disclaimer that the cost will increase unless you opt out by a certain time.

SECO is not getting any of your money, the 501(c)(3) is. The only reason they have any of your extra pennies is you accepted their terms and allowed them to. The only reason they will get any more pennies is because your time is spent here complaining about the donation rather than going through the simple steps to opt-out...the same steps you could have taken in the 120 days before Jan. 1, 2023.

Respectfully, I usually agree with your posts, but not in this case. What SECO is doing is theft. Plain and simple. It is not the same thing as companies warning customers of a future rate increase. We both know that suing SECO is not practical. Customers should not be required to do anything to prevent SECO from taking their money.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

Respectfully, I usually agree with your posts, but not in this case. What SECO is doing is theft. Plain and simple. It is not the same thing as companies warning customers of a future rate increase. We both know that suing SECO is not practical. Customers should not be required to do anything to prevent SECO from taking their money.

To me, theft happens without knowledge, without warning, without recourse, and without benefit to the victims. None of those are true in this case. The program was announced well ahead of time, there was a way to opt-out then, there is a way to opt-out now, and there is a tax benefit to making the donation (yes, a tiny benefit, but proportional to the very small amount being donated).

Yes, we usually do agree but apparently not this time.... and that's okay.

[JoMar]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

Respectfully, I usually agree with your posts, but not in this case. What SECO is doing is theft. Plain and simple. It is not the same thing as companies warning customers of a future rate increase. We both know that suing SECO is not practical. Customers should not be required to do anything to prevent SECO from taking their money.

Customers should be required to manage their accounts. And, there are those of us that like the opt out option and hate the opt in option. Just because some don't like one option doesn't mean it's wrong, only that there is a different opinion. Making up the definition of stealing or theft to fit one's opinion seems to me to be taking a superior position and knowledge over those that disagree.

[HappyGirl126]

I would want them to send change donated back and sent to your charity of your choice.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by JoMar

Customers should be required to manage their accounts. And, there are those of us that like the opt out option and hate the opt in option. Just because some don't like one option doesn't mean it's wrong, only that there is a different opinion. Making up the definition of stealing or theft to fit one's opinion seems to me to be taking a superior position and knowledge over those that disagree.

Theft is taking someone's property without their permission. I didn't make up the definition. If I tell you that I am going to take your golf cart unless you send me a letter, is that okay with you? I think the police would call it theft.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Vermilion Villager

Yes....but what you may or may not not realize is SECO also gets to deduct this amount on THEIR taxes. I know nine dollars for an individual account doesn't amount to a lot but just think how many hundreds of thousands of accounts SECO has, and are getting the tax benefit of all those charitable contributions.

What benefit?

Let's say they collect $1,000,000 in those extra fees. That now counts as income, right?

So, if they give all that money to charity, it's like it never happened. Money in = Money out. A net "wash"...

But they let YOU deduct that charitable contribution, (per what was written on the announcement letters). So basically, they are nothing but a "pass thru" account for the charitable contributions...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

If they asked if we wanted to opt in would say ok but do not like the fact that we had to take action to opt out. We direct charity as we see fit not as Seco sees fit.

While I agree with you on that point (you should opt-in rather than have to opt-out), those who are saying SECO benefits are just plain wrong...

[JMintzer]

So I guess this is now the "get your knickers in a twist" topic du jour?

[Toymeister]

I was just at SECO's district 2 (south of 466a) meeting.

The CEO was proud of the opt out program and called it a success.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by Toymeister

I was just at SECO's district 2 (south of 466a) meeting.

The CEO was proud of the opt out program and called it a success.

Of course it was a success, because if you need to opt out, you will get more participation than if you need to opt in. Stealing is profitable.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

Of course it was a success, because if you need to opt out, you will get more participation than if you need to opt in. Stealing is profitable.

How are they "profiting" on this when the money is donated to cahrity?