[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

The person killed is the victim. That is really all we know, for sure, right now. If the shooter had a fear for his own and others safety remains to be seen.

Yes, because forcine one's way into a building and shooting a gun (into the ceiling, or otherwise) is most certainly the the correct way to ensure other's safety...

If he had his gun out and was shooting into the ceiling while angry that would go a long way in making a fear very reasonable.

You were "soooo close"...

You show up angry, shooting a weapon, you're a threat, regardless of the initial target...

[Velvet]

Wow, Tal, you got the Gazette going. Well done!

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

My problem is that, "Why is it taking so long to get the facts out from the Police". It is like that old saying about "pulling teeth". Florida is SUPPOSED to be the SUNSHINE state ........so is it too much to ask to have a little SUNSHINE on this MURDER or justifiable homicide (maybe a trigger-happy, WHITE GUY). I hate to look for CONSPIRACY theories, but there is a VERY possible one BREWING here! What if the great and FREE state of Florida does NOT want ANY BAD publicity about GUNS that might SOUR the upcoming legislation to allow UNLIMITED OPEN carry just like in ALL our favorite Western movies? Florida will become like a scene from, "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly" (and we have a lot of ugly here)! .........everyone BUCKLE UP those pistolos and cartridge belts.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Velvet

Wow, Tal, you got the Gazette going. Well done!

How so? Seriously. I don't subscribe and I'm curious...

[Velvet]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

How so? Seriously. I don't subscribe and I'm curious...

“Default Sumter County residents can now track crime in their area via online map
The Sumter County Sheriff’s Office recently partnered with LexisNexis Risk Solutions to create a new online system to help citizens stay better informed about crime in their area. The Community Crime Map is an online map that analyzes data, and allows citizens to review crime in their general surroundings….”

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive

Fair enough.

Don't get the wrong impression though. I am definitely a "more police presence" kind of guy, especially on our streets and roadways. More street and roadway surveillance too, as far as that goes. 46% of Americans admit to drinking and driving, and my guess is that it is higher than that here in The Villages. That fact coupled with the unfortunate eventuality that a person's physical abilities regarding driving diminish with age whether that person is drinking or not, and you have a very serious issue.

I AGREE 150 % about that statement !!!!!!!!! Not only are we in a BUBBLE of conformity and single-mindedness on most issues - we are in an unsafe and extremely VULNERABLE bubble where we are the HAVES and surrounded by HAVE NOTS.
.........I see that this Applebees shooting as PROOF positive with respect to my theory expressed in the 1st paragraph about SAFETY and vulnerability. I honestly and firmly believe that TV Land needs new and innovative methods (and top-level thinking) to deal with the problem that OUR LOCAL SENIORS are VERY vulnerable to CRIME. Applebees was SHOT UP. A local restaurant was SHOT UP !!!!!!
.........The US murder rate is INCREASING. Does anyone really believe that this Applebee's incident will ONLY happen maybe once every TEN YEARS.........NO WAY !!!! Crime ( and incidentally hurricanes) is going to keep INCREASING right here in our little (FORMERLY SAFE) little chunk of paradise called The Villages.
..........Without more CRIME PREVENTING technology and solid well trained additional Police personnel the sign greeting Villages will have to be changed from "Friendliest Home Town" to "Active War Zone".
...........And that was a VERY good point that was brought up about the excessive consumption of alcohol which has been a historic building block of LA, lA LAND life from day one. Right now we have extremely high traffic congestion and when you add the combustible mix of excess alcohol worship - you get problems that video recordings and ADEQUATE Police and their PRESENCE can help avoid.
.........And if and when the "powers that be" add the "EVERYBODY PACKING", disaster in the making, provisions to the law .........WELL, baby, we are going to have a REAL SNITSHOW !!!!!

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Velvet

“Default Sumter County residents can now track crime in their area via online map
The Sumter County Sheriff’s Office recently partnered with LexisNexis Risk Solutions to create a new online system to help citizens stay better informed about crime in their area. The Community Crime Map is an online map that analyzes data, and allows citizens to review crime in their general surroundings….”

That's from the Sheriff's office, not the Gazette...

What that has to do with the Applebee's shooting escapes me...

[Velvet]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

That's from the Sheriff's office, not the Gazette...

What that has to do with the Applebee's shooting escapes me...

Thanks for the correction. It was The Gazette that brought it to my attention. I think this forum brings up subjects of common interest and our media tries to address our interests (sometimes).

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

Yes, because forcine one's way into a building and shooting a gun (into the ceiling, or otherwise) is most certainly the the correct way to ensure other's safety...



You were "soooo close"...

You show up angry, shooting a weapon, you're a threat, regardless of the initial target...

Yes, but did either of those happen in this case?

No, you did not assert that you believe that happened in this case. However, when faced with any alternate possibility, or even a lack of information, your reply is the above. It is hard not to draw a conclusion from that.

From the information provided in the article (all we have to go on) one could also say that being a black man and entering through a side door that someone opened for you is a sure way to get yourself killed.

[PugMom]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

My problem is that, "Why is it taking so long to get the facts out from the Police". It is like that old saying about "pulling teeth". Florida is SUPPOSED to be the SUNSHINE state ........so is it too much to ask to have a little SUNSHINE on this MURDER or justifiable homicide (maybe a trigger-happy, WHITE GUY). I hate to look for CONSPIRACY theories, but there is a VERY possible one BREWING here! What if the great and FREE state of Florida does NOT want ANY BAD publicity about GUNS that might SOUR the upcoming legislation to allow UNLIMITED OPEN carry just like in ALL our favorite Western movies? Florida will become like a scene from, "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly" (and we have a lot of ugly here)! .........everyone BUCKLE UP those pistolos and cartridge belts.

people had said the same things while the cops were looking for that guy who knifed/shot those college students. in the end we ended up reading about how the cops were on his tail for sometime, & an arrest was coming, --it was just that the press didnt know about it.

[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

My problem is that, "Why is it taking so long to get the facts out from the Police". It is like that old saying about "pulling teeth". Florida is SUPPOSED to be the SUNSHINE state ........so is it too much to ask to have a little SUNSHINE on this MURDER or justifiable homicide (maybe a trigger-happy, WHITE GUY). I hate to look for CONSPIRACY theories, but there is a VERY possible one BREWING here! What if the great and FREE state of Florida does NOT want ANY BAD publicity about GUNS that might SOUR the upcoming legislation to allow UNLIMITED OPEN carry just like in ALL our favorite Western movies? Florida will become like a scene from, "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly" (and we have a lot of ugly here)! .........everyone BUCKLE UP those pistolos and cartridge belts.

I believe what the above refers to is the permitless or “Constitutional Carry” bill that is scheduled to be debated by the full Florida legislature soon; it has already cleared all committee hurdles and both the House and the Senate bills have been reconciled so that the language is the same. However I am not aware that the bill, if passed, allows open carry. Open carry is already illegal in Florida and as far as I know is likely to remain so.

In any case, Constitutional carry is NOT unlimited, even if passed. If you are prohibited from legally owning a gun, then carrying one in public is a felony, and as I understand the legislation if a law enforcement officer knows you are carrying he or she has the right to ask you to produce identification.

I very much doubt that constitutional carry will see much of an increase in who is carrying and who is not. Let’s face it, the criminals among us already are, and as far as the rest of we law-abiding folk go, those who are anti-carry are not about to buy a gun and start packing, just because they can.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Yes, but did either of those happen in this case?

No, you did not assert that you believe that happened in this case. However, when faced with any alternate possibility, or even a lack of information, your reply is the above. It is hard not to draw a conclusion from that.

From the information provided in the article (all we have to go on) one could also say that being a black man and entering through a side door that someone opened for you is a sure way to get yourself killed.

When faced with absolutely ridiculous alternative possibilities, yeah, I'll reply like I did earlier... He came in "to have a piece of pie"? Really?

IIRC, the article (all we have to go on, right?) stated that he got into a confrontation once inside. So, your claim of "being a black man and entering through a side door that someone opened for you is a sure way to get yourself killed", is just silly

Do you know the color of the man who shot him? Or the color of the people who were inside the Applebees? Or the color of the people who got into the altercation outside?

No? Then why should the color of the man who was shot matter?

Unless, of course, one is trying to make this a racial issue...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive

I believe what the above refers to is the permitless or “Constitutional Carry” bill that is scheduled to be debated by the full Florida legislature soon; it has already cleared all committee hurdles and both the House and the Senate bills have been reconciled so that the language is the same. However I am not aware that the bill, if passed, allows open carry. Open carry is already illegal in Florida and as far as I know is likely to remain so.

In any case, Constitutional carry is NOT unlimited, even if passed. If you are prohibited from legally owning a gun, then carrying one in public is a felony, and as I understand the legislation if a law enforcement officer knows you are carrying he or she has the right to ask you to produce identification.

I very much doubt that constitutional carry will see much of an increase in who is carrying and who is not. Let’s face it, the criminals among us already are, and as far as the rest of we law-abiding folk go, those who are anti-carry are not about to buy a gun and start packing, just because they can.

You are correct on all counts.

As to the other comments... Consider the source...

[Rainger99]

At this point, there are at least two scenarios.

In the first scenario, the person that was killed was carrying a gun and was threatening people in the restaurant putting them at fear for their lives and was killed.

The other possibility is that the person that was killed was totally innocent and was just trying to get inside to be safe. He had no weapon and was no threat to anyone. However, the shooter mistakenly thought that he was a threat and shot him.

Of those two, I hope it is the first one. That is because you would have a criminal being killed. I hope it is not the second scenario because in that case, an innocent person was killed and the shooter will most likely be tried and convicted.

In case one, a criminal is dead. In case two, an innocent person is dead and a person that probably had no criminal intentions will have his life destroyed.

[Number 10 GI]

It shouldn't take a lot of intelligence to figure out why the police haven't released any information on the shooting. The police don't want suspects knowing what they have discovered or what/who they are looking for.

Kinda like everyone needing to know if the Allies were going to land at Pas de Calais or Normandy.