Isn't there an issue of the so called "representatives" not following the desires of their constituency?

Does this have a familiar ring to it?

Posters on this site sure does not constitute a "majority" for the district. It could very well be the "silent majority" have expressed their wishes in a different manner. If the poll conducted by the POA is accurate, the majority want some type of striping on the MMPs.

FYI, Here is Supervisor Dennis Hayes reply to my recent email opposing striping in CDD8:

I want to thank you for taking the time to contact me and for expressing your opinion about the vote by 3 members of our District #8 Board last Thursday afternoon.

The action by Supervisors Sal Torname, Victor Ray and Ray Banks to move ahead and add edge-striping to our multi-modal paths was taken, in my opinion, in spite of the lack of demonstrated need, without regard to the recommendation of our Engineer, and in total disregard for the strong desire by other Districts for consistency across The Villages. As a result, only District #8 funds will be used to pay for the striping instead of Project-wide funds. Further, if there is an accident on the multi-modal path attributable to the striping, the action to ignore the recommendation of our Engineer could make District #8 solely liable in the event of a lawsuit. It goes without saying that I totally agree with your position and my record demonstrates that I have recommended against and voted against striping on numerous occasions..

I am strongly suggesting to everyone who opposes the vote that was taken on Thursday, Sept. 3rd that they attend our next regularly scheduled District #8 Board meeting at the Lake Miona Rec Center at 11:30 am on Friday morning, October 16th and voice your opposition to the vote to stripe. It is apparent from their literature that the Property Owners Assoc. (POA) thinks that the majority of residents want striping. I, like you, disagree with that position and I believe that most residents of District #8 oppose it also. Residents need to loudly voice their opinion.

I think, perhaps, one of the most effective ways residents have to reverse the action of the Board is to submit signed petitions in sizable numbers of those opposed to the vote. I have attached a suggested format for a petition for your consideration. If you are interested in pursuing this course of action, please contact me. I can provide additional information.

I am also suggesting that you encourage all of your friends and neighbors who live within District #8 to write to their Board and to the Daily Sun expressing their opinion. If this issue matters to them, it is time to be more than silent.

I am not sure that you are aware that the three supervisors who voted for this striping have been or currently are all affiliated with the Property Owners Assoc. Two were former Directors of the POA who resigned their position when elected last November. The other is still currently a Director. It is a concern to me that a block vote by these three supervisors could be interpreted as promoting the POA's agenda in utter disregard to the best interest of District #8 residents.

Thank you for your support,
Dennis Hayes
Supervisor for District #8 &
Member of the Project-wide Advisory Committee (PWAC)

Striping ...CDD 8 residents take note! Attend meeting!
 

Important info. Meeting 10/16 @ 11:30 Lake Miona Rec Ctr

when I read this, the first thing that popped into my mind was that he threw his fellow board members under the bus.

If these board members can't make simple decisions, such as striping the path or not, perhaps they should not be board members.

I live in District 8 and none of these guys will be getting my future vote.

By the way, I do believe something needs to be done to the MMP's to make them a bit more friendly to drive in darkness.

Just wait till someone runs off the path and states that part of the line was covered up with leaves or somthing and sues district 8

I got the same message, so I guess that Hayes has a prepared response. I had voted for the two "Ray" guys when they opposed the developer-appointed incumbents. So, they, too, are out of control.

I will be there. Quick question. Is the meeting open to all TV residents? I suspect that this may be a standing room only meeting. I would not like to see CDD8 residents squeezed out of the room.

so, er, um, I guess a discussion of the 'glow in the dark' striping is out of the questiion.....:shrug:

Center line and only as needed. ..PLEASE

I believe that there should be a The Villages general vote sent to all owners of property here. This way once and for all every owner of property will have their vote counted and record and we will finally see if there is the desire by the majority to have stripping, center or side done and the results will end all the confusion. Having the district representatives vote based on the handful of residents who respond to or go to district meetings is not resolving this issue. A full owner response will resolve this.

We elect representatives to act on our behalf, in our best interest, as they see fit. We decry the politician who governs based on poll results on a given issue. Our country political system is designed to NOT act based on the majority opinion, but rather to protect the minority interests. Now, here we are, demanding a vote of the population at large. Why should we have representatives, if everything that one disagrees with the representative council has to go to a vote by the residents. If you don't like the outcome, wait for the next election cycle, and, either run for office or vote someone else in. Too many of you insist on getting your way or you act like children throwing temper tantrums. You people are too old to occupy wall street.

What the poster is proposing is not unheard of. Just take a look at California. They have ballot propositions on all types of issues. Because this issue is such a hot button issue, I could see it being a ballot issue.

That said, how many will actually take the time to vote? Voter turnout in elections has historically been lower than 50%. Probably less for ballot propositions that appear at the end of the ballot. Also, if one thinks this would end the discussion, I have a sinking bridge on Morris Ave. I would like to sell you.

I am resigned to the fact that striping will not happen as the PWC has voted striping down, but it will not end my support for striping and speaking out for it.

[///

I would be interested in seeing the yes / no vote summation of all the districts sorted by resident elected representatives Vs developer appointed representatives.

There was a poll on the online news. Does anyone remember how it went?


This is an issue that does not get my blood pressure up. Other than I never want the residents to run the area I live in.


Almost always it is some blow hard know it all with no experience and no common sense who wants to "serve" in this capacity.

I am not looking for a poll - I am seeking the facts. Hopefully the facts will shed a little better insight then blow hard responses.

Being able to look at anything that would lay out the number of and types of cart accidents on the MMPs including time of day, location of the icident, and any other parameters.
Then a reasonable assessment of whether side striping would have affected the outcome.

Absent some sort of presentation, the subject is emotional, political or simply predjudced/opinion driven. Which is fine as long as the opposing views are respected as well.

That's what I was asking for so many posts ago. I just wish I could express myself as clearly as you do.
My gut tells me there are many accidents. Since they do not have to be reported, they are not reported. Maybe because someone had a little too much to drink or maybe someone is embarrassed or afraid of being grounded.

From the Engineering Evaluation:

2011 thru 2014

340 total reported accidents
65 of the 340 occured on MMP's (all others on streets and parking lots)
12 of the 65 occured at night

The causes of the 12 were not specified in the report. The term "varied widely" was used.

These numbers by themselves should convey the results.

65 accidents on MMP over a 3 year period.......22 per year!
12 of which were at night (reminder OVER 3 YEARS)......4 per year!

Given the hundreds of thousands of cart trips over the same 3 year period, these numbers alone should drain all the emotion out of the subject and result in the reality of the situation leaving a conclusion:

The MMPs in their as is configuration are safe!

The other day, I found myself in rather dire circumstances....a scene right out of the Divine Comedy. I was a traveler in a strange land. The sky was dark and ominous with constant flashes of electricity and their accompanying crackles and sizzles. There were creatures of grotesque stature. All of them had glowing eyes and their lamentations bored directly into my soul. No wildlife or plant live could live in this sulfuric atmosphere except for coyotes and cacti. I was lost and hopeless.....doomed, and I began to make my peace in accordance with my beliefs. Then, in the distance, I saw a faint light. As my golf cart's internal combustion engine struggled on in labored breaths, while still emitting a noisy and impressive carbon footprint, the light began to stretch from the scorched landscape to the forbidding heavens and east to west as far as my weeping eyes could see. I knew there was salvation beyond this opaque barrier, but could I break through it? I squeezed my eyes shut, put a death grip on the steering wheel, and put the pedal to the metal. I whispered, repeatedly, a faint little mantra, asking my protector to shield me from any overzealous officer of the law who may be intent on writing one of those unregister vehicle tickets as told in the sagas. Suddenly, and, may I say, miraculously, a transformation of indescribable proportions as I passed effortlessly through the border. Blue skies and sunshine...moderate temperatures and humidity. Colorful birds were singing, most of them hidden away in beautiful trees in full blossom. Butterflies were abundant. I saw a rabbit conversing with a chipmunk as a gentle fawn looked on. I could hear trickling brooks and an angelic choir. I had been wrapped in a blanket of safety...I now know how Linus feels. My senses were temporarily overloaded, but slowly perspective returned and I noticed that this welcoming world had one outstanding feature...center striping. Those golden stripes, dazzling in their brilliance, were like the footprints of the Gods...beacons of comfort and hope that shown in stark contrast against the asphalt. I teared up and made a vow not to ever leave District 4 in a golf cart again except to hit the early bird special at Golden Corral...then I gave thanks to my rogue lords who gave the collective finger to the traffic engineer and the Developer's minions. All was right with my world.

Why
 

I find it distasteful and terrible that some posters refer to others as "blowhards"! Why is there a need for name calling and insults as opposed to opinions. It could be said the name callers are the ones who deserve the title since they tend to be pretty closed minded and not open to others having opinions if they do not agree with theirs. As the saying goes if you are unsure and petty when it comes to others then shout or call names. :mornincoffee:

The Engineering report had a break down of the accidents, time of day, etc. What the report does not show are non-reported accidents, near missses or poor lighting conditions/areas on the MMPs. What was not done was any type of traffic study on visibility at different times of the day and conditions. It was all based on the Florida requirments for path markings, which are none, and the reported accidents.

Because there is not a complete review there is going to be a lot of emotion. We are all smart people and can regonize problems when we see them. Maybe rather than going rouge or just sweeping the whole thing under the rug, the districts should conduct a complete usage study of the MMPs.

charlieb
 

If you have ever driven on the path at night or even worse during a rainstorm you might understand why some sort of striping is needed.
Also, the cost when compared to 1 life saved is well worth the expense.

money spent unecessarily on inefficient or unneeded projects deprives high efficiency and necessary projects from being made. I do drive the MMPs after dark and there are a few(operative word is few) spots where some further highlighting would be helpful. i find that the few reflectors on the MMPs through a place like Turtle Mound do the job quite well. We do not need a major project throughout the community. A few relectors or reflective paint on a few centerlines will improve visibility quite adequately.

Side stripping of the golf cart path
 

Although the first sentence is a bit presumptuous...terms such as inefficient and unneeded are very subjective...I agree with the rest of your post. IMHO reflectors or some sort of striping could be used in some isolated areas, but is not really necessary system wide.

sounds like you are agreeing, reflectors and striping DO increase safety and visibility. Why would you not want that safety on all roads. Virtually all public streets are striped...I guess those engineers who checked out the Villages don't think 50,000 golf carts require the safety they afford people on public streets. That's all that needs to be said...you either care about the safety of others or you don't....no further replies are needed.

Maybe in the southern portions of the. Buena Vista trail the landscaping is such that the trail is not darkened. Up north here, I have taken to driving the street that runs parallel to Buena Vista when it is dark. The street is much better lit and straigther. This is called taking personal responsibiliy....

Cart Path striping
 

How well can you see the path at night in the rain with an oncoming golf cart's lights reflecting on your windshield? To me, this is an important safety issue that is well worth the $1-2 per household per year.

a mis characterization of my comments-- completely.

Money is a scarce commodity The adoption of a project with monetary costs does limit other activities unless there is a bottomless pot -somewhere, as in taxpayers pockets(residents)

Not sure I see your point. Don't get me wrong...I totally agree with your statement. But it's true for all projects in any budget, not just trail striping.

What happened to "it's not about the money, it's the principal"?

It has always been about the money. Striping was a good idea until the cost was published.

Rather than stripping all districts, let District 8 stripe as an experiment. As people travel through this district on the multi-modal trails, let Villagers see for themselves if stripping the trails does help at night. As no one else in the world has the data or experience to help with this issue, we may be required to try it here on a small scale. Spend a little to save a lot or try it as you may grow to like it.

In some cases, the money is the principle. Not necessarily so when someone commits a criminal act.

This case has much to do with efficient use of scarce resources (money)

I suspect it will be difficult/impossible to collect data that will allow for the testing of the hypothesis that striping improves safety, to a statistically significant degree. In the absence of real data, typically you would want to go with the opinion of an expert. His opinion was not to stripe. South of 466A, there are some blind curves with embedded reflectors in the middle of the MMP. They serve double duty as they "thump" if you go over them with your tires. These seem like a good idea.

I would also like to know the same thing. If people really need a stripe because they can't see well at night, in spite of having headlights, then why not a stripe down the middle dividing lanes. It would serve a dual purpose of ensuring people stay on their own side of the path, and give them a guide to follow so they don't run off the road. The number of people who drive down the middle of the path as if it is a one way street is ridiculous.

I agree money is principal.:smiley: