Talk of The Villages Florida
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Talk of The Villages Florida (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/)
-   The Villages, Florida, General Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/)
-   -   Side striping of the golf cart path (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/side-striping-golf-cart-path-161493/)

tomwed 09-15-2015 12:15 PM
If one does have a golf cart accident where is it voluntarily reported?

golfing eagles 09-15-2015 12:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by billethkid (Post 1114445)
5% of 100,000 population is 5,000 people!

From the Engineering Evaluation:

2011 thru 2014

340 total reported accidents
65 of the 340 occured on MMP's (all others on streets and parking lots)
12 of the 65 occured at night

65 accidents on MMPs over 3 years....average 22 per year = .022%

.022% (22 MMP accidents in one year) compared to 5.0% (5000 woodshop users).

Not a good comparison.

Assuming it was passed for a moment. Yes it would become a line item in the budget. That does not change the three options for finding the funding.
>Eliminate something else that provides the funds.
>Raise the revenues i.e. fees/assessments etc. to allow the striping funding without giving up anything.
>based on priorities, like it or not; anything that affects .022% would not earn a spot in the budget....hence do nothing.

Since the striping will be either a numbers decision, one of the above must happen.
Or an emotional and or political decision neither of which changes the method of finding the funding.

We have the luxury of the developer being involved in much of what we enjoy in our Villages life style. So budgets, fees, adding projects or increasing costs are not readily apparent to us......as long as our fees stay the same....eh?


Budgeting is not a very popular subject because of the disciplines required to do it right.

Ya just cannot do everything EVERYBODY wants.

22 divided by 100,000 = .022 %
99%+ of all citizens in the US do not need handicap access to public facilities
Less than 1% do, yet billions have been spent to accommodate these unfortunate individuals.

Is that a "good comparison"?

billethkid 09-15-2015 01:31 PM
Yes!

billethkid 09-15-2015 01:32 PM
It certainly is a better one.

Mleeja 09-15-2015 01:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by billethkid (Post 1114445)
5% of 100,000 population is 5,000 people!

From the Engineering Evaluation:

2011 thru 2014

340 total reported accidents
65 of the 340 occured on MMP's (all others on streets and parking lots)
12 of the 65 occured at night

65 accidents on MMPs over 3 years....average 22 per year = .022%

.022% (22 MMP accidents in one year) compared to 5.0% (5000 woodshop users).

Not a good comparison.

Assuming it was passed for a moment. Yes it would become a line item in the budget. That does not change the three options for finding the funding.
>Eliminate something else that provides the funds.
>Raise the revenues i.e. fees/assessments etc. to allow the striping funding without giving up anything.
>based on priorities, like it or not; anything that affects .022% would not earn a spot in the budget....hence do nothing.

Since the striping will be either a numbers decision, one of the above must happen.
Or an emotional and or political decision neither of which changes the method of finding the funding.

We have the luxury of the developer being involved in much of what we enjoy in our Villages life style. So budgets, fees, adding projects or increasing costs are not readily apparent to us......as long as our fees stay the same....eh?


Budgeting is not a very popular subject because of the disciplines required to do it right.

Ya just cannot do everything EVERYBODY wants.

22 divided by 100,000 = .022 %
To keep your comparisons consistent try dividing the cost by the number of users of the MMPS, it might be a bit higher. And based on your logic the flowers are goners.... Ya just cannot pick the numbers you want.

billethkid 09-15-2015 01:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mleeja (Post 1114485)
To keep your comparisons consistent try dividing the cost by the number of users of the MMPS, it might be a bit higher. And based on your logic the flowers are goners.... Ya just cannot pick the numbers you want.
I have only used the numbers pertaining to the subjects in discussion (excluding the flowers!).

Has/had nothing to do with what I want(ed)!

Walter123 09-15-2015 02:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mleeja (Post 1114485)
To keep your comparisons consistent try dividing the cost by the number of users of the MMPS, it might be a bit higher. And based on your logic the flowers are goners.... Ya just cannot pick the numbers you want.
Flowers make sense and benefit everyone that drive through The Villages. Side striping the cart paths only benefits those that probably shouldn't be driving anyway. Oh, and saying that side striping benefits anyone is a stretch. IMHO

TheVillageChicken 09-15-2015 02:38 PM
Here is the way I think the guys with the purse strings look at it. If they spend the money, the pro-stripers will pipe down and the anti-stripers will eventually forget the issue ever existed. If they don't spend the money, the pro-stripers will never let this die and will continue to be a vocal minority pain-in-the-ass hindering the progress on other important issues such as who to name the next rec center after.

JoMar 09-15-2015 03:04 PM
What is the record number of posts on any thread? Are we trying to beat it?

virgind 09-15-2015 03:16 PM
So Mr Chicken I guess the minority rules. Just like our government. (not meant to be political)

Chi-Town 09-15-2015 03:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoMar (Post 1114533)
What is the record number of posts on any thread? Are we trying to beat it?
Don't know the record number but the coyote thread has a narrow lead over the striping.

Mleeja 09-15-2015 04:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoMar (Post 1114533)
What is the record number of posts on any thread? Are we trying to beat it?
Not even close. Go look at the threads on the tree cutting.....

Mleeja 09-15-2015 04:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virgind (Post 1114545)
So Mr Chicken I guess the minority rules. Just like our government. (not meant to be political)
The number of posters have seemed to be split fairly evenly. The meetings
I have attended on this topic the pro and cons were failry even. A survey conducted by the POA showed that a majority of the respondents supported some type of striping. For all the "against" folks, don't quote the poll conduceted by the on-line news source. Any poll where you can vote multiple times is not valid. The majority of the objectors seem to be concerned about cost.

Just a purely personal opinion, if the POA did not support striping it would have been a done deal by the districts....

Polar Bear 09-15-2015 04:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter123 (Post 1114511)
..Side striping the cart paths only benefits those that probably shouldn't be driving anyway...
Never ceases to amaze me.

dbussone 09-15-2015 04:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mleeja (Post 1114383)
So it is about the money! Are you a softball player? $500,000 to upgrade softball facilities. Your ok with this? This benefits maybe 5% of the population where as striping the paths would improve safety for all Villagers. Maybe there sould be a cost benefit analysis done on all projects. What is the benefit and return on flowers in the roundabouts? As the districts make up their budgets, striping would be a continuing line item, just like flowers.

Why would you do a cost/benefit analysis on a project that has been dismissed by professional consultants whom we have already paid to provide a recommendation? Because some may not like their recommendation does not negate it's appropriateness.

Mleeja 09-15-2015 05:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbussone (Post 1114606)
Why would you do a cost/benefit analysis on a project that has been dismissed by professional consultants whom we have already paid to provide a recommendation? Because some may not like their recommendation does not negate it's appropriateness.
My point in responding to the OP that if limited funds determine which projects get approved then a cost/ benefit analysis should be done on all projects, even the planting of flowers.

dbussone 09-15-2015 05:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mleeja (Post 1114623)
My point in responding to the OP that if limited funds determine which projects get approved then a cost/ benefit analysis should be done on all projects, even the planting of flowers.

While I generally concur with that concept, well done cost/benefit studies also cost money to complete.

Mleeja 09-15-2015 05:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbussone (Post 1114628)
While I generally concur with that concept, well done cost/benefit studies also cost money to complete.
As well as a determined hurdle rate and a payback period. However we are not dealing with a commercial enterprise, but a quasi governmental unit and unfortunately, the same rules do not apply. Now back to bashing each other over striping....:boxing2: :)

rogerz 09-15-2015 05:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virgind (Post 1108794)
Still my question is why is it needed. You cant see the side of the path? Come on people.
Darkness and/or rain creates a visibility issue on curving multi modal path. Oncoming auto headlights adds to problem in some stretches causing golf cart driver to avert eyes. Ability to see something (side stripe, center stripe, reflectors,...), anything that provides a reference point would be useful. Stretch of Buena Vista south of Belvedere is particularly unsafe. Darkness comes early most of year and rain is not infrequent. My eyesight is fine but problem is real.

dbussone 09-15-2015 06:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mleeja (Post 1114634)
As well as a determined hurdle rate and a payback period. However we are not dealing with a commercial enterprise, but a quasi governmental unit and unfortunately, the same rules do not apply. Now back to bashing each other over striping....:boxing2: :)

Well done!

billethkid 09-15-2015 06:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogerz (Post 1114646)
Darkness and/or rain creates a visibility issue on curving multi modal path. Oncoming auto headlights adds to problem in some stretches causing golf cart driver to avert eyes. Ability to see something (side stripe, center stripe, reflectors,...), anything that provides a reference point would be useful. Stretch of Buena Vista south of Belvedere is particularly unsafe. Darkness comes early most of year and rain is not infrequent. My eyesight is fine but problem is real.
from the study......65 MMP accidents over a 3 year period!

Challenger 09-15-2015 07:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by billethkid (Post 1114661)
from the study......65 MMP accidents over a 3 year period!
Only 12 at night!!

virgind 09-15-2015 07:53 PM
There comes a point where we should either drive our cars at night or dont drive at night or get new head lights on your cart. One of the above.

scot_atc 09-15-2015 07:58 PM
My impression of the majority of folks I've met in TV is that most would bend over backward to help each other out. There appears to be quite a few on TOTV that wouldn't reach into their coin purse for a nickel if there was no direct benefit for them. I hope you are the minority.

tomwed 09-15-2015 08:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by billethkid (Post 1114661)
from the study......65 MMP accidents over a 3 year period!
Do you believe that is accurate?
It doesn't make sense.

Callaway Guy 09-15-2015 08:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Challenger (Post 1114684)
Only 12 at night!!
Do you, or anyone, know what the cause of those 12 carts accidents at night were attributed to?

rogerz 09-15-2015 09:14 PM
Check engineer study- they chose poor data. Time of year used was summer but they "adjusted" for snowbird season... Time of day was mostly daytime since they used summer data..gets dark earlier in winter. Percentage also based on total number rather a "rate of accidents" during darkness hours vs daytime. Also they gave their opinion "prior to" conducting their study. They were paid $6500 to tell what they already told us for free!!! Tell me what's up with that?

rogerz 09-15-2015 09:19 PM
No it doesn't. Hope this picture is getting clearer for folks!

rogerz 09-15-2015 09:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virgind (Post 1114695)
There comes a point where we should either drive our cars at night or dont drive at night or get new head lights on your cart. One of the above.
If we use that logic then we shouldn't have any striping on automobile roads...we should do away with lighting also.... That argument full of holes.

rogerz 09-15-2015 10:06 PM
Excellent comments... Let's focus on what can improve safety (for all MMP users) instead using opportunity to stake out positions.

Walter123 09-16-2015 07:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogerz (Post 1114742)
If we use that logic then we shouldn't have any striping on automobile roads...we should do away with lighting also.... That argument full of holes.
Another ridiculous comparison between 20 mph golf carts and 70 mph cars.

outlaw 09-16-2015 07:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter123 (Post 1114795)
Another ridiculous comparison between 20 mph golf carts and 70 mph cars.
70 mph cars on BV? Hmmm.

PennBF 09-16-2015 07:28 AM
Just Idea
 
There is a company who sells small lights for the front of the golf cart and also small lights on the side. The side lights work well in lighting up the curbs and also in the tunnels. These are excellent in helping when driving at night. With the headlights and side lights (where you step into the cart) the curbs are pretty lit to help at night. They are not cheap but if you have a real concern driving at night these are a good way to off set some of that worry?:bowdown:

outlaw 09-16-2015 07:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogerz (Post 1114738)
Check engineer study- they chose poor data. Time of year used was summer but they "adjusted" for snowbird season... Time of day was mostly daytime since they used summer data..gets dark earlier in winter. Percentage also based on total number rather a "rate of accidents" during darkness hours vs daytime. Also they gave their opinion "prior to" conducting their study. They were paid $6500 to tell what they already told us for free!!! Tell me what's up with that?
You hit the nail on the head. But get ready to be attacked and accused of slander for calling a spade a spade.

Walter123 09-16-2015 08:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by outlaw (Post 1114799)
70 mph cars on BV? Hmmm.
Who said anything about BV? Guess you "need" striping too.

Mleeja 09-16-2015 08:35 AM
I get a chuckle out of the comments that if you cannot see the MMPs, then drive your car. What is on the stretts? lane makings, side stiping, and better lighting. All the things we are asking for the MMPs. You can't drive your car to the 7:02 tee time. You can't drive your car to the dog parks in the evenings, you can't drive you car if have started to a square in your cart on a bright sunny day and the rain moves in.

Comments like "drive your car if you can't see" are selfish.

graciegirl 09-16-2015 08:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter123 (Post 1114831)
Who said anything about BV? Guess you "need" striping too.


I have paint.

asianthree 09-16-2015 08:43 AM
We just got an email from our neighborhood. I did not realize that the thermal plastic striping was 4 inches wide with a lip, and would be installed 6 inches from the edge of the path. That means that we will lose 20 inches of path. So all those guys stick your knee out are going to be jousting knees, and our bound to collide with the loss of 20 inches. Since this is just an email from my neighborhood I cannot substantiate whether this is correct but thought I would pass it along

billethkid 09-16-2015 08:52 AM
:popcorn:

:popcorn:

rogerz 09-16-2015 09:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter123 (Post 1114795)
Another ridiculous comparison between 20 mph golf carts and 70 mph cars.
70mph on Morse or Buena Vista or Stillwateror Odell or ...??
Think about that


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