[CSwofford147@comcast.net]

It seems as the changing of the laws regarding sinkhole insurance originated 1n 2012 in the State of Florida Legislature. That would be a good place to start discussing this problem. I would like to know how many Villagers have contacted there state, local, even federal legislators . If the have contacted them what these legislators had to say about the problem. This is where the problem started and where it will end.

[Steve9930]

Originally Posted by CSwofford147@comcast.net

It seems as the changing of the laws regarding sinkhole insurance originated 1n 2012 in the State of Florida Legislature. That would be a good place to start discussing this problem. I would like to know how many Villagers have contacted there state, local, even federal legislators . If the have contacted them what these legislators had to say about the problem. This is where the problem started and where it will end.

Fraud is what started the problem. Under the current Florida Catastrophic Ground Collapse you are still covered but the ability to commit fraud has been diminished. There is now tighter criteria that fixes the problem with the sink hole while just not putting money in some ones pocket that is never used to fix the sink hole problem. Do I think the law needs to be tweaked a tad, yes. But remember you can demand anything from the Insurance Companies but they still set the rates and provide the insurance. The law makers faced the following problem, change the law or you were going to loose all you insurance as the carriers were ready to leave the state. Like any new legislation the pendulum always swings to far to try and correct a problem on the first go around. You are right however that we all should be discussing this problem with the people we send to Tallahassee.

[justjim]

Exactly, the way insurance companies work. When they had to payout millions for hurracines several years ago, they raised rates, deductibles, and some pulled out of Florida entirely. These "acts of God" can cost millions in profits for an insurance company. Flood insurance has to be provided by the Federal Government.

You have to wonder just how much fraud there really was with sinkhole insurance. Remember how much power the insurance lobby has in this country.

OP, is correct about the Politicans-----but do they have the "will" to do anything about sinkhole coverage in Florida. It needs careful attention.

[OBXNana]

Our concern is the sink hole insurance will go the route of FEMA. We've had multiple property's in "flood zones" and never had a claim. A property we now own, was built in 1985 with a lot of upgrades, never having a claim, and our policy in 2013 was about $7,000.00 for flood, hurricane, wind driven rain. The maximum pay out for a total loss is $250,000.00. We accepted the risk. Legislation passed in March and our insurance company informed us the flood insurance portion of the policy would be about $25,000.00 per year. All property is now equal. We will pay the same as someone filing a claim multiple times. This is the case for second homes and rental property. Primary homes are grandfathered in for the previous rate.

Our concern is the sink hole coverage we have for The Village property will go the route of the hurricane under FEMA. We were actively involved with the legislation in NC and feel we were listened to with our concerns. The outcome isn't what we hoped for, but could have been worse. Getting in touch with the representatives in FL is a great idea. Believe me, you don't want the Federal Government regulating your insurance for sink holes.

I don't consider this political. This is both sides that put FEMA in charge of flood insurance. Both sides need to be on the side of the home owner and keep the insurance company's in charge of sink hole insurance. Not the Federal Government.

[Steve9930]

Originally Posted by justjim

Exactly, the way insurance companies work. When they had to payout millions for hurracines several years ago, they raised rates, deductibles, and some pulled out of Florida entirely. These "acts of God" can cost millions in profits for an insurance company. Flood insurance has to be provided by the Federal Government.

You have to wonder just how much fraud there really was with sinkhole insurance. Remember how much power the insurance lobby has in this country.

OP, is correct about the Politicans-----but do they have the "will" to do anything about sinkhole coverage in Florida. It needs careful attention.

When my home insurance company dropped sink hole coverage and opted for Catastrophic Ground Collapse I was furious to say the least. So I decided I would play the game and get my home inspected. Of course they still refused to reinstate sink hole coverage but I still had to try. What it did do is give me a chance to speak with an inspector that was in the middle of this problem and had been in business for a number of years. Besides the fraud the way the sink hole laws in Florida were written all I had to do is call my insurance company and complain that I have cracks in my home. Under the law that meant they had to determine if you were having a sink hole problem. The cost of the geological testing was not inexpensive and they had to pay the cost. All they needed is one sink hole in the neighborhood and guess how many other calls they were getting. So there were multiple faces to the problem so I don't blame them for what they did to correct it. However the fix went a little farther to their end. The fact is I'm still covered if the sink hole is Catastrophic. I also found an insurance broker who could get me Sink Hole Coverage. His comments was He would not recommend it. And here is why. Most sink hole policies you can get now have a deductible of 10% of the value of the house. If your house is worth $250K that is $25K out of your pocket. His statement was if it cost that much to fix the problem you probably would be covered under the Catastrophic Ground Collapse. I don't doubt the Insurance Lobby put lots of pressure on the legislators and I'm sure there was a degree of greed in the out come.

[ilovetv]

Originally Posted by OBXNana

Our concern is the sink hole insurance will go the route of FEMA. We've had multiple property's in "flood zones" and never had a claim. A property we now own, was built in 1985 with a lot of upgrades, never having a claim, and our policy in 2013 was about $7,000.00 for flood, hurricane, wind driven rain. The maximum pay out for a total loss is $250,000.00. We accepted the risk. Legislation passed in March and our insurance company informed us the flood insurance portion of the policy would be about $25,000.00 per year. All property is now equal. We will pay the same as someone filing a claim multiple times. This is the case for second homes and rental property. Primary homes are grandfathered in for the previous rate.

Our concern is the sink hole coverage we have for The Village property will go the route of the hurricane under FEMA. We were actively involved with the legislation in NC and feel we were listened to with our concerns. The outcome isn't what we hoped for, but could have been worse. Getting in touch with the representatives in FL is a great idea. Believe me, you don't want the Federal Government regulating your insurance for sink holes.

I don't consider this political. This is both sides that put FEMA in charge of flood insurance. Both sides need to be on the side of the home owner and keep the insurance company's in charge of sink hole insurance. Not the Federal Government.

Not that property owners with no claims history should pay the same as those with multiple past claims, but I think the federal legislation was to try to make the known flood prone areas pay their own freight, i.e. why should somebody in another state pay for the known risks people take by rebuilding again in the same place....only to be wiped out again a couple of years later. People in other states are tired of paying others' freight when taking such known risks placing their personal property.

There were threads on here last fall when the legislation was to start on Oct. 1. The premium increases were unbearable to the point that the economy and property values of so many resort and vacation areas would be decimated and congress stalled the start of the change if I read the news right about that.

Keeping it in the state legislature is better as someone stated above.

[janmcn]

Originally Posted by CSwofford147@comcast.net

It seems as the changing of the laws regarding sinkhole insurance originated 1n 2012 in the State of Florida Legislature. That would be a good place to start discussing this problem. I would like to know how many Villagers have contacted there state, local, even federal legislators . If the have contacted them what these legislators had to say about the problem. This is where the problem started and where it will end.

Unfortunately, the 2014 Florida legislative session ended yesterday (Friday).
Any changes to the laws regarding sinkhole insurance will have wait until next year, unless a special session is called.

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by justjim

Exactly, the way insurance companies work. When they had to payout millions for hurracines several years ago, they raised rates, deductibles, and some pulled out of Florida entirely. These "acts of God" can cost millions in profits for an insurance company. Flood insurance has to be provided by the Federal Government.

You have to wonder just how much fraud there really was with sinkhole insurance. Remember how much power the insurance lobby has in this country.

OP, is correct about the Politicans-----but do they have the "will" to do anything about sinkhole coverage in Florida. It needs careful attention.

Do a Google search on Pasco county FL sinkhole fraud...........you will be surprised.

[bob47]

As a matter of fact, I wrote to Marlene O'Toole about this when coverage changed about a year and half ago. I did not get an explanation of why she voted for the change as it is written.

I told her the biggest disappointment was that something so important to the people in her district was passed into law without any prior warning, or any opportunity for input from her constituents. I don't think that's the way government was intended to work.

[784caroline]

Originally Posted by Steve9930

I also found an insurance broker who could get me Sink Hole Coverage. His comments was He would not recommend it. And here is why. Most sink hole policies you can get now have a deductible of 10% of the value of the house. If your house is worth $250K that is $25K out of your pocket. His statement was if it cost that much to fix the problem you probably would be covered under the Catastrophic Ground Collapse.

Dont kid yourself. Up north we had minor underpinning done to our house and the cost was well over $15K. Boreholes and underpinning is a very expensive process...especially if you are having the entire foundation done.

Here in Florida here is how the fraud perpetuated, a home owner would call a sink hole company up and say we have a sinkhole. They would advise the homeowner to contact the insurance company. The insurance company would say homeowner you pay for the borehole(s) ($5-10 K depending upon how many) to prove it is a sinkhole, and if it is we will reimurse you for the drilling cost PLUS the cost to repair (minus your $500 deductible) if it is determined "Sinkhole Activity" is the main cause for the cracks in your walls or the separations in your foundation.
For a $250K house it was not uncommon to get estimates to repair between $150 -200K. In many cases it would be a total loss for the insurance comapny and they would write lets say $200K. Of course the homeowner did not want to move back in so the Sink HOle repair guys would then come to the homeowner and offer him $50-60K to take title ...this together with teh insurance settlement would make the homeowner good for teh entire value of the house and he could move on.
So the sinkhole company (or one of its execs) now owns the house. He may make "cosmetic" fixes to the house say for $50K. He now has approx $100K invested and then he sells it for $200-220K. I also heard that the way the law is written, only the homeowner who originally owned the home when a sinkhole loss (claim) was amde is required to disclose it...otherwise it is considered repaired.

So that is how the fraud worked..insurance company was out $200K - original homeowner collects 100% of value from insurance company and sinkhole company and then moves on, sinkhole company sells house at big profit and avoids the disclosure rules.

By raising the deductibe to 10% of house value, the homeowner will be getting less in his claim from the insurance company and it makes the sinkhole guys come up with alot more money . Stilll not perfect but it has cut down on sink hole claims for fraudalent purposes.