[biker1]

A traffic map is fine. I was referring to your statement about people on TOTV not following a scientific method. I am not sure what it is that you expect them to do.

Originally Posted by tomwed

It doesn't need to be precise experiment. A friend of mine has a lanai on Evens Prairie and you can see 466A. At a party they said you would be amazed at all the accidents at the intersection with Buena Vista. That's enough information for me to take a double look and proceed more cautiously when crossing that road.

Suppose you don't have any friends at this end of town. You look at an accident map and it shows a lot of accidents at that intersection. It's useful.

[tomwed]

Originally Posted by biker1

A traffic map is fine. I was referring to your statement about people on TOTV not following a scientific method. I am not sure what it is that you expect them to do.

I'm not sure either.

Speeding is another thread about safety. Is it a problem? Where is the evidence?

A thread will start off that coyotes are a problem. I think it would be useful to know how many people have seen coyotes, where and when. And it would be useful that the people who have been here the longest share village coyote stories from a while ago, to see if this is a new problem. I guess it would be to discover if coyote problems are a couple of isolated incidences.

I don't really have a good answer for you but I am giving it a lot of thought.

[biker1]

OK, I see where you are going now. Before declaring that there is a problem, we should have some evidence that is more than just anecdotal. Good point.

Originally Posted by tomwed

I'm not sure either.

Speeding is another thread about safety. Is it a problem? Where is the evidence?

A thread will start off that coyotes are a problem. I think it would be useful to know how many people have seen coyotes, where and when. And it would be useful that the people who have been here the longest share village coyote stories from a while ago, to see if this is a new problem. I guess it would be to discover if coyote problems are a couple of isolated incidences.

I don't really have a good answer for you but I am giving it a lot of thought.

[tomwed]

Originally Posted by biker1

OK, I see where you are going now. Before declaring that there is a problem, we should have some evidence that is more than just anecdotal. Good point.

So who could put together a village accident map?
Or how could a survey be put together to see what problems need addressing?

It's not that I want to squash problems as if they don't exist. We have technology that could make this easier. Suppose there was a flea [or flu] outbreak. And a survey revealed just when and where it started. Quick action might make a big difference to Fido [or Uncle Fred].

[outlaw]

Originally Posted by biker1

I don't see your point regarding the MMP striping. The engineering firm didn't recommend it and the majority of residents don't appear to be in favor. The only ones is favor seem to be a few representatives of the CDDs.

I was just using striping as an example that the collective wisdom of users of the "system" may statistically provide better solutions than so called "expert" engineers, that probably don't even exist when it comes to MMPs used by senior citizens. But because the anointed expert has an engineering degree, people tend to think his/her opinion is more "expert" than a bunch of people who may or may not have any credentials other than common sense and user experience. Not saying MMP striping is good or bad. Just throwing out the concept of crowd wisdom vs conventional expertise. I thought it was an interesting concept.

[MDLNB]

I don't see the relationship between an experimental scientific study and the county traffic statutes. The law is the law whether The Villages agrees with it or not. If you have a 10mph speed LIMIT on county roads in your neighborhood, you can be given a citation for violating it. Safety is an ideal, but limits are based on such safety ideal. The thread is about speeding in the village neighborhoods. Whether you are in a golf car, motorcycle or car, if you are speeding then you are deemed in violation of the law. What's so difficult with that? Just because you think that you can drive better than someone else makes little difference.

Some of you believe that running stop signs is a fact of life and reasonable. Not part of this thread but it's been brought up. I don't see it that way. Violating stop signs is probably one of the most dangerous actions perpetrated in the villages. Stop signs are not a suggestion. It's the law that you come to a complete stop, not speed up like I have seen many do. Speeding on Buena Vista may not be very dangerous, but speeding in neighborhoods is very dangerous. Violating stop signs is always a dangerous practice.

You don't need a study regarding traffic laws. They are here and we aren't going to change them.

If you wish to do a study, do a study regarding seatbelts in golf carts and why they might be necessary because some folks don't know how to drive and end up throwing their passengers out when they run into a curb.

[tomwed]

How many accidents are there a year [bike, cart,car pedestrian]?
And where do they occur [place pinpoints on a map that all can see]?
I wouldn't change speed limits, change stop sign laws or request police support either.

You don't need a study like the one below. I don't think many will even read a study. But, for example if you found out that the intersection of one of the highways and Morse or Buena Vista had many accidents maybe you would pay more attention, turn off the radio or pick another route. It's a heads-up. When people visit me from up north I give them a heads up that speed limits change many times on the way here coming from 95.

Here is a golf cart seat belt study with link below:
ANALYSIS AND PREVENTION OF CHILD EJECTIONS FROM GOLF CARS AND PERSONAL
TRANSPORT VEHICLES
Kristopher Seluga
Technology Associates
Timothy Long
Accident Research & Biomechanics
USA
Paper Number 09-0186
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/esv...%20Written.pdf

This is how I found the study. It's a sad story.
Safety Concerns Rise As Golf Carts Take to the Streets
Safety Concerns Rise As Golf Carts Take to the Streets

I think the online information available to anyone changed how we live. The days of going to a library and asking the librarian for help finding resources are long gone.
I think you could have a group map, using google maps and people could add pinpoints for accident. I don't know if that can be done.

[outlaw]

Originally Posted by MDLNB

I don't see the relationship between an experimental scientific study and the county traffic statutes. The law is the law whether The Villages agrees with it or not. If you have a 10mph speed LIMIT on county roads in your neighborhood, you can be given a citation for violating it. Safety is an ideal, but limits are based on such safety ideal. The thread is about speeding in the village neighborhoods. Whether you are in a golf car, motorcycle or car, if you are speeding then you are deemed in violation of the law. What's so difficult with that? Just because you think that you can drive better than someone else makes little difference.

Some of you believe that running stop signs is a fact of life and reasonable. Not part of this thread but it's been brought up. I don't see it that way. Violating stop signs is probably one of the most dangerous actions perpetrated in the villages. Stop signs are not a suggestion. It's the law that you come to a complete stop, not speed up like I have seen many do. Speeding on Buena Vista may not be very dangerous, but speeding in neighborhoods is very dangerous. Violating stop signs is always a dangerous practice.

You don't need a study regarding traffic laws. They are here and we aren't going to change them.

If you wish to do a study, do a study regarding seatbelts in golf carts and why they might be necessary because some folks don't know how to drive and end up throwing their passengers out when they run into a curb.

A couple of points. You didn't include bicycles in your group of vehicles. How do you feel about bicycles? Also, if you think rolling (not running)through a stop sign is so dangerous, then how do you rectify using yield signs? Because rolling through a stop sign is essentially treating it like a yield sign.

[Greg Nelson]

As I age I'm convinced the good Lord sent me here to slow people down. What's the hurry? And don't forget to use your turn signals

[Jima64]

Originally Posted by outlaw

A couple of points. You didn't include bicycles in your group of vehicles. How do you feel about bicycles? Also, if you think rolling (not running)through a stop sign is so dangerous, then how do you rectify using yield signs? Because rolling through a stop sign is essentially treating it like a yield sign.

I believe most yield signs are not used to control traffic going across an intersection but to merge into the flow going to the right. Not quite as dangerous. Even with a yield sign you are required to not enter the intersection with approaching traffic. Essentially a stop sign of another color.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Greg Nelson

As I age I'm convinced the good Lord sent me here to slow people down. What's the hurry? And don't forget to use your turn signals

Stop signs, yield signs, traffic lights, speed limits and the general vehicular and traffic code posted by government are there to slow people down (or speed them up) appropriately and safely. You, as an individual, have no right or responsibility to "slow people down". This is where problems begin---individuals making up their own rules, like two cars driving side by side at 55 on an interstate--maybe they want to "slow people down" as well--- but instead they create the very safety hazard that they THINK they are preventing. Follow the rules posted (and use your turn signals), but DO NOT impose your individual traffic concepts on everyone else. If you want to be a law enforcement officer, go to the police academy and get a badge.

[MDLNB]

Originally Posted by outlaw

A couple of points. You didn't include bicycles in your group of vehicles. How do you feel about bicycles? Also, if you think rolling (not running)through a stop sign is so dangerous, then how do you rectify using yield signs? Because rolling through a stop sign is essentially treating it like a yield sign.

If it wasn't dangerous to "roll" through a stop sign then they would have put a yield sign there instead of a stop sign. And by the way, if the yield sign is red, then the law says you must come to a stop if there is traffic coming.

[MDLNB]

Originally Posted by Greg Nelson

As I age I'm convinced the good Lord sent me here to slow people down. What's the hurry? And don't forget to use your turn signals

Amen brother....

[MDLNB]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Stop signs, yield signs, traffic lights, speed limits and the general vehicular and traffic code posted by government are there to slow people down (or speed them up) appropriately and safely. You, as an individual, have no right or responsibility to "slow people down". This is where problems begin---individuals making up their own rules, like two cars driving side by side at 55 on an interstate--maybe they want to "slow people down" as well--- but instead they create the very safety hazard that they THINK they are preventing. Follow the rules posted (and use your turn signals), but DO NOT impose your individual traffic concepts on everyone else. If you want to be a law enforcement officer, go to the police academy and get a badge.

This is an example of WHY the police cite those driving golf carts over 20mph. I would like for the state to initiate a law that states that registered LSV's not be able to drive on cart paths. It won't happen, but one could wish. I have no problem with those that are in a hurry, passing me when safe to do so, but some are just reckless. If I am already moving at 20mph and someone passes me at about 30mph, that's a bit excessive. If you don't like the slow pace, then get out on the road where you really belong. And if you don't appreciate me hollering at you when you run a stop sign, call the police and report me.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by MDLNB

Amen brother....

Really??? I gather you are retired law enforcement, so are you really advocating an individual imposing his own set of rules on others and usurping the police authority? The point of living by the rule of law is that everybody has the same set of rules to obey, that no individual can make their own rules and enforce them, and that citizens answer to the law, not some individual. Without this as a guiding principle, we would have anarchy and vigilantism