[Rainger99]

Originally Posted by Happydaz

What wasn’t explained well “about” the study was that most metropolitan counties and towns assess a fire fee for businesses that is based on square footage and type of business. In other words it is the normal way to do it. Just look at Lake County. They assess homeowners a little over $300 per residence. For businesses you can see the chart they have for square foot assessments. Some very large businesses in Lake County pay over $30,000. Lake county looks just like the study Sumter County paid for. You can look up other metropolitan counties and see similar charts.

Pretty good explanation of how Lake County does it!

https://www.lakecountyfl.gov/Fire/Fire-Assessment

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Happydaz

What wasn’t explained well “about” the study was that most metropolitan counties and towns assess a fire fee for businesses that is based on square footage and type of business. In other words it is the normal way to do it. Just look at Lake County. They assess homeowners a little over $300 per residence. For businesses you can see the chart they have for square foot assessments. Some very large businesses in Lake County pay over $30,000. Lake county looks just like the study Sumter County paid for. You can look up other metropolitan counties and see similar charts.

I doubt that explanation would have made a difference to the residents who did not want to pay an additional $200 or to the businesses that did not want to pay anything more than $124.

It is good information but to those who wanted to see a $0 increase it would only be rationalization. (Heck, most didn't read the study anyway)

[kkingston57]

Originally Posted by JGibson

161% increase, Yikes!

Agree % increase is high. New cost around $330. Had not been raised in years.

[kkingston57]

Originally Posted by Rainger99

I am trying to figure out how many fire services we have in the county.

If there is a fire in the Villages but you live outside of Wildwood, who provides fire services?

If there is a fire in the Villages and you live in Wildwood, who provides fire services?

If you live in Wildwood but not in the Villages, who provides fire services?

If you live in Bushnell, who provides fire services?

Good ?s and I bet some of us have more. Problem is that there is too much overlap in TV. Too much time bickering about this < $17 a month "increase" especially when a lot of residents were complaining about wait times for EMS and fire. Can' have your cake and eat it too.

[ton80]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

I doubt that explanation would have made a difference to the residents who did not want to pay an additional $200 or to the businesses that did not want to pay anything more than $124.

It is good information but to those who wanted to see a $0 increase it would only be rationalization. (Heck, most didn't read the study anyway)

The cart is in Front of the Horse
Before we argue who pays what and how, we need to know and agree what the required expenditures are. I have not seen any public document that addresses why the very large cost and personnel increases are justified. This is something that the Sumter County Commissioners need to review and address.

1. Budget Review and Personnel Planning
There is a need for a fundamental review of why the two Fire Districts/entities need some 50 million dollars more and many more firefighting personnel to serve Sumter Co. I have not seen any discussion on this topic and I believe it is the starting point and the fundamental issue.

2. How To fund The Approved Plan and Budget
This is what the study addressed and looking at how other Counties/Districts financed their budgets is instructive and provides a comparison to Sumter County approach. It appears to me that Sumter County lays the burden more heavily on the homeowner compared to Businesses. Why should the Lofts, for example, only pay the same as any single home owner and not much more since the Lofts have many housing units. Lake County spreads out the cost in a more equitable way.

Looking back at the discussions regarding the Independent Fire District discussions and vote, I believe that the IFD was not approved since there was no indication of how the Sumter County Budget would be revised. It is time to have it all out in the open and explained clearly IMHO.

[Normal]

The county commissioners could pay for all this by raising the impact fees of the developer to what they should be. The Villages Developer pays only 40 percent of the cost of new roads and nothing for other infrastructure like fire, law enforcement.etc. Perhaps they are getting breaks because of the schools they have donated etc?

What is spectacular to me is how all this wasn’t delineated for the public and set forth in the up till midnight meeting. Wasn’t a company supposed to research the proposals? Wasn’t the research report thorough enough? All the commissioners should have voted no. Kudos to those who did. How are we even getting inputs that RV park owners would have paid almost a half million in taxes per year? Does that seem fair and right to anyone?

What really needs to happen is a lined expenditure report submitted by the fire department and a centralized plan for implementing sound funding for the needs of the department.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Normal

The county commissioners could pay for all this by raising the impact fees of the developer to what they should be. The Villages Developer pays only 40 percent of the cost of new roads and nothing for other infrastructure like fire, law enforcement.etc. Perhaps they are getting breaks because of the schools they have donated etc?

See item 4) in post #132 for information on impact fees. This fee is for recurring costs, not what impact fees are used for.

What is spectacular to me is how all this wasn’t delineated for the public and set forth in the up till midnight meeting. Wasn’t a company supposed to research the proposals? Wasn’t the research report thorough enough? All the commissioners should have voted no. Kudos to those who did. How are we even getting inputs that RV park owners would have paid almost a half million in taxes per year? Does that seem fair and right to anyone?

There is a study that explains the rate structure. It was presented to the Commissioners and presumably their questions were answered.

The $490,000 charge to the RV park is not believable. That *might* be the combined fee plus property tax but without more information we can`t know.

What really needs to happen is a lined expenditure report submitted by the fire department and a centralized plan for implementing sound funding for the needs of the department.

Detailed budgets can be found on the VCCDD page and the Sumter County page for any who want to look.

[Goldwingnut]

Originally Posted by Goldwingnut

So much conjecture and misinformation here. I’ve spent countless hours writing emails and talking to residents and businesses alike on this topic in the last 3 weeks. I don’t intend to get into a long debate here but I will give you a few facts to clear up some of the misinformation the is most important and confused.

1) very few people pay only $124 for fire protection. $124 only covered about 25% of the total cost of operating the combined fire departments, the balance came from the general fund. The fire departments operations costs represent about 30% of the total general fund budget expenditures. The primary source of funding for the general fund is your county property tax - the county tax line item, not of the entire bill you receive. So about 30% of the county tax line item goes to also funding the fire departments. What does this work out to on an individual basis? Last year for my courtyard villa it is 30% of $1239.81 + $124 or about $496. For a commercial property - we’ll look at the Lofts in Brownwood, last tears County Property tax was $151803, so 30% of that is about $45,540 going to fund the fire departments + the $124 or $45665. This is the same for every property in the county. I did say a few only pay $124, these are smaller properties where the value of the property is low and their county property tax is zero because exemptions, such as homestead, reduce the tax to zero so all they pay is $124.

2) the primary source of the increase is due to the increase in ambulance capacity that was demanded by the residents 2 years ago. I guess the assumption was that someone was going to pay for this new service. Yes, there was some growth factored into this, but this organic growth in the budget was directly offset by the increased revenues received from these properties ($124 + 30% as described above). Funding for building new stations is funded separately.

3) the proposed fire assessment can only be used for fire protection/prevention operating costs, not for advanced life support (ambulance service) or building new fire stations. Basically what was done was that the 30% previously discussed was moved from the general fund out to the Fire Assessment, hence the large increase, and then the cost for ambulance service was added to the general fund offsetting the previous fire expense reduction. Government accounting can be tedious, money is moved between funding sources and the general fund and back out again to funds designated for specific expenditures, this is all done to provide accountability and the ability to follow the money trail. The net result of all of this could be summed up as saying the fire assessment increase is a result of the added ambulance service.

4) impact fees cannot fund this additional cost. Impact fees are a one time fee on new growth that can only be used for adding additional capacity to the fee’s targeted expenditures. Sumter County only has a road impact fee, so it can only be used for adding new roads or increasing capacity of existing roads that are directly impacted by the growth. We could implement a fire impact fee, but that could only be used for expanding fire capacity - new fire stations and trucks, etc. Impact fees cannot be used to offset operating costs. The operating costs - road maintenance, fire station staffing costs, etc. - cannot be funded using impact fees. This requires the question to be asked, if we collect and spend these impact fees on project X, will project X generate sufficient additional tax revenues to offset its annual operating cost? Impact fees are not recurring revenues, they are one time. Some have tried to compare Sumter County impact fees to other counties, it’s not an apples to apples comparison because each county had difference needs and designations for its impact fees. Sumpter County’s unique demographic and building requires do not, at this time, additional impact fees being levied, but even this is scheduled for its 5-year review in the upcoming fiscal year for Sumter County.

These are just a few of the key points on this issue, it is much more involved than most realize. This is what you’ve elected the county officials to understand, evaluate, and make the difficult decisions on.

I could spend the rest of the day typing here on this topic, but I have a busy day ahead of me. I, the other County Commissioners, and the county staff are willing to talk and meet with residents on this and other matters, you can arrange a call or meeting by contacting the county office main number found at Sumtercountyfl.gov.

So obviously this post was a waste of my time. Many keep going on and on with their misinformation without trying to get the facts, only believing what they want to believe.

I’ve had my head buried in the county budgets for the last 5 years, this past year every more so. I’ve presented you with the facts based on years of experience of reviewing these budgets. I have not agenda here beyond sharing facts with all of you. If it’s good it’s good and if it’s bad it’s bad, I’m indifferent as long as it’s factual.

Do I like where I live? Absolutely! The villages is an incredible community and Sumter County could not possibly be any better in my opinion. Some think I have some bias for the village or think I receive some kind of compensation from them, neither is true. But I do have an affinity for a job well done. I worked 20 years in commercial construction, as a project manager for a majority of that time, to manage a project on a scale such as this is a testament to their ability. When it’s good I let you know and when it’s bad I don’t hesitate to let loose with both barrels.

Generally I try to be positive, if you want negativity the pseudo-news site and Nextdoor are where you should go.

I’ve received the developer’s ire on more than a few occasions over my videos, the stuff I reveal, and sharing my opinion, I stopped caring long ago what they think of me.

Deal with facts and not speculation and innuendo and enjoy life a little more.

[Bilyclub]

I had no qualms about paying the increased fee and loved that the businesses were going to pay their fair share. But.... apparently the businesses, ( T & D and Galaxy), that do a lot of work for the developer launched a campaign to deep six the increase. Since the Daily Sun was involved in this campaign you would have to think that all of this had the developer's blessing. When in Oz remember who is behind the curtain.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Bilyclub

I had no qualms about paying the increased fee and loved that the businesses were going to pay their fair share. But.... apparently the businesses, ( T & D and Galaxy), that do a lot of work for the developer launched a campaign to deep six the increase. Since the Daily Sun was involved in this campaign you would have to think that all of this had the developer's blessing. When in Oz remember who is behind the curtain.

Not the first time this has happened and probably won't be the last. Need some good ideas to counter it the next time.

[tophcfa]

Originally Posted by kkingston57

Too much time bickering about this < $17 a month "increase" especially when a lot of residents were complaining about wait times for EMS.

Why worry about response times for EMS when the result is that the patient is ultimately going to get dumped at a dismal one star rated hospital with quite possibly the worst ER in the entire country. I don’t get the “hurry up and get there so we can wait seemingly forever for woefully substandard health care” mentality? Residents would have been better served saving money and keeping the old ambulance servive until someday (hopefully) when there is a place worth being rushed to!

[kansasr]

Originally Posted by Goldwingnut

So obviously this post was a waste of my time. Many keep going on and on with their misinformation without trying to get the facts, only believing what they want to believe.

I’ve had my head buried in the county budgets for the last 5 years, this past year every more so. I’ve presented you with the facts based on years of experience of reviewing these budgets. I have not agenda here beyond sharing facts with all of you. If it’s good it’s good and if it’s bad it’s bad, I’m indifferent as long as it’s factual.

Do I like where I live? Absolutely! The villages is an incredible community and Sumter County could not possibly be any better in my opinion. Some think I have some bias for the village or think I receive some kind of compensation from them, neither is true. But I do have an affinity for a job well done. I worked 20 years in commercial construction, as a project manager for a majority of that time, to manage a project on a scale such as this is a testament to their ability. When it’s good I let you know and when it’s bad I don’t hesitate to let loose with both barrels.

Generally I try to be positive, if you want negativity the pseudo-news site and Nextdoor are where you should go.

I’ve received the developer’s ire on more than a few occasions over my videos, the stuff I reveal, and sharing my opinion, I stopped caring long ago what they think of me.

Deal with facts and not speculation and innuendo and enjoy life a little more.

I for one want to say that this was not a waste of time, you managed to clarify some things that I wasn't aware of!

I did not realize that in last year's budget the $124 fire assessment only covered a small portion of the $35 million for the 2 fire districts and the balance came out of the general fund. I always felt it was unfair that I was paying the same fire assessment as Walmart, but now that I see that was only a small portion of the expense, commercial buildings are indeed paying more of a fair share. In the proposed budget, the general county assessment is being DECREASED, from 5.59 to 5.19.

The biggest challenge faced by the county commission is the VERY large increase in the fire budget, primarily from The Villages fire district, which has a proposed increase of almost 100 percent (from $17,934,640 last year to $34,636,054). We asked for a greatly improved ambulance service and this apparently is the price for that request. From looking at the budget, it would appear that the commission just received a lump sum request from the Villages fire district, as there wasn't a detailed breakdown as there was from the fire district for the rest of the county (which, by the way, had a modest increase from $18,884,269 to $24,240,265).

So where do we go from here? The commission has some difficult decisions. First, deciding how much we actually want to pay for improved service. If we want to keep these proposed funding levels, the money has to come from somewhere. If we keep the old system, do we apply a moderate increase to the $124 assessment per lot and increase the county assessment above and beyond the previous year? Or do we implement something like the new proposed system, where the fire assessment actually reflects the total cost of the services?

I'm not sure we pay our commissioners enough for these kinds of decisions!

[LuvtheVillages]

Originally Posted by ton80

The cart is in Front of the Horse
Before we argue who pays what and how, we need to know and agree what the required expenditures are. I have not seen any public document that addresses why the very large cost and personnel increases are justified. This is something that the Sumter County Commissioners need to review and address.

1. Budget Review and Personnel Planning
There is a need for a fundamental review of why the two Fire Districts/entities need some 50 million dollars more and many more firefighting personnel to serve Sumter Co. I have not seen any discussion on this topic and I believe it is the starting point and the fundamental issue.

2. How To fund The Approved Plan and Budget
This is what the study addressed and looking at how other Counties/Districts financed their budgets is instructive and provides a comparison to Sumter County approach. It appears to me that Sumter County lays the burden more heavily on the homeowner compared to Businesses. Why should the Lofts, for example, only pay the same as any single home owner and not much more since the Lofts have many housing units. Lake County spreads out the cost in a more equitable way.

Looking back at the discussions regarding the Independent Fire District discussions and vote, I believe that the IFD was not approved since there was no indication of how the Sumter County Budget would be revised. It is time to have it all out in the open and explained clearly IMHO.

So clearly you have not been paying attention to the news and you have not read the preceding posts.

Are you not aware that the 2 fire departments are taking over the ambulance service for the entire county, that they have to purchase ambulances and equipment and hire people?

And don't you know that the fire fee only pays a portion of the fire department costs. It also is a significant portion of our property tax payment. In fact, I think we should consider eliminating the fire fee and have it totally covered by the property tax.,

[Goldwingnut]

Originally Posted by kansasr

I for one want to say that this was not a waste of time, you managed to clarify some things that I wasn't aware of!

I did not realize that in last year's budget the $124 fire assessment only covered a small portion of the $35 million for the 2 fire districts and the balance came out of the general fund. I always felt it was unfair that I was paying the same fire assessment as Walmart, but now that I see that was only a small portion of the expense, commercial buildings are indeed paying more of a fair share. In the proposed budget, the general county assessment is being DECREASED, from 5.59 to 5.19.

The biggest challenge faced by the county commission is the VERY large increase in the fire budget, primarily from The Villages fire district, which has a proposed increase of almost 100 percent (from $17,934,640 last year to $34,636,054). We asked for a greatly improved ambulance service and this apparently is the price for that request. From looking at the budget, it would appear that the commission just received a lump sum request from the Villages fire district, as there wasn't a detailed breakdown as there was from the fire district for the rest of the county (which, by the way, had a modest increase from $18,884,269 to $24,240,265).

So where do we go from here? The commission has some difficult decisions. First, deciding how much we actually want to pay for improved service. If we want to keep these proposed funding levels, the money has to come from somewhere. If we keep the old system, do we apply a moderate increase to the $124 assessment per lot and increase the county assessment above and beyond the previous year? Or do we implement something like the new proposed system, where the fire assessment actually reflects the total cost of the services?

I'm not sure we pay our commissioners enough for these kinds of decisions!

Thank you!
Just one clarification, VPSD presented a detailed breakout budget to the BOCC, the increase was greater than SCFEMS because
a) they have more ambulances than SCFEMS therefore greater costs involved,
b) they were expanding and adding 2 additional fire stations so staffing and operating costs were increasing for both fire protection and ambulance - the cost of the two new fire stations is not in their proposed budget, this is covered by the $4.08/month ($50/yr) that is included in the Amenity Fee Villagers pay each month that is now earmarked for capital improvements greater than $10,000.

The County staff, fire departments, and BOCC have some difficult decisions to make in the next few weeks. A lot of progress has been made since Tuesday evening's meeting towards overcoming this huge budget shortfall and softening the blow of this decision.

Several scenarios and strategies are being looked at for FY25 for funding the county fire department costs, these are still in the preliminary stages of discovery, one thing is very apparent at this point of all possible strategies, there is no "Someone Else" that is going to pay for this service.

Two years ago, the residents asked for better service, they got it.
Now residents have asked not to have to pay for this additional service, they got it.
Every decision has consequences so be careful what you ask for, you may get it.

[tophcfa]

Originally Posted by tophcfa

Why worry about response times for EMS when the result is that the patient is ultimately going to get dumped at a dismal one star rated hospital with quite possibly the worst ER in the entire country. I don’t get the “hurry up and get there so we can wait seemingly forever for woefully substandard health care” mentality? Residents would have been better served saving money and keeping the old ambulance servive until someday (hopefully) when there is a place worth being rushed to!

I have never quoted my own post before, but I am now because I am baffled that no one has responded to it. My post highlights the huge elephant in the room that appears to be invisible. Apparently everyone is living in some kind of make believe fantasy world where response time actually matters? Why is everyone burying their heads in the sand and demanding faster service when there is a much bigger problem?

I get it that fixing The Village’s health care system is beyond the scope of both Villagers and the county commissioners, but increasing ambulance response time solves nothing as long as the much much much bigger problem exists! Efforts that actually do make a real difference, like the neighborhood defibrillator program, should be the focus of attention.