Interesting read so far - Many people very passionate about this subject on both sides - Some posters have stooped to name-calling and being snarky, which is sad to see - Interesting, people feel the need to defend their tipping position here with such intense vigor, as if they can somehow convince others to sway to their way of thinking - No one is going to change their outlook on tipping based on any arguments here, though I do find the information about how tips are pooled interesting.

My opinion is based on a variety of things:
1. Being a waitress in a few different restaurants throughout my life, and one posh summer resort.
2. Being a bartender at a bowling alley for a couple of years, and a bartender at a dive bar in my home state for a few months (til I found out they were using the bar as a front for drug trade - I quit a week before they were raided and shut down).
3. Working full time for a non-prof (American Cancer Society) in downtown Boston and living on a budget there.
4. Learning that being a street musician in Boston was lucrative, and supplementing my budget with that, having a LOT of easy cash at my disposal, and able to pay good tips at the Ritz-Carlton restaurant.
5. Enjoying the dining-out experience at least monthly for most of my life, and learning from the other side of the bar tab what it's like to be a tipped server - and from the diner's side, what it's like to be a "regular customer" who relies on my server being glad I'm there.

Well, that’s the problem with tipping. It’s personal. There is no right or wrong way to do it. Some people prefer one way, others differently - that is why there should not be such a system. It’s like going into a store to buy bananas - for whatever price you want to pay. Then if someone doesn’t pay enough in someone’s opinion, people call them names… lol.

As far as service is concerned, workers should be paid a proper wage in the first place. I don’t go to a place to eat to make friends with the staff, they don’t make my day. I would just like courteous service - which should be part of the job definition.

That is probably true, but then think of all the fun we would miss out on!

In what way do you "relies on my server"? Other than the normal job functions they are employed to provide, what? Extra napkins for the chili nachos? Re-fill your coffee, or catsup for your fries? Are they the only person that has a matching blood type for transfusions, or something like that?

correct!

Oh dearie me! Cut to the quick! I suffer under the weight of harsh words by one who knows me not.

In light of the experience you have shared, I have a question, not to be mean, but I want an honest opinion and I think you will tell me.
If there was no tipping, do you think that wait staff would be paid the same minimum wage as other restaurant employees? I believe they would. And, that is good reason for them to love tipping, for one average tip from one average table and they easily exceed minimum wage.

When you are speaking with the manager about the above waitress who smiled, took your order and correctly and promptly delivered your food, and he asks what did she do wrong, you would say...?

I made average tips as a restaurant server - nothing over the top, but enough to go beyond the minimum wage in the state for non-tipped workers. Once, someone gave me a $20 bill after eating a $10 meal. And a few times, I was stiffed for a tip entirely.

I would've been fine with a living wage instead of tipping. But a living wage was not the same as minimum wage. I didn't rely on this one part-time job to pay my bills. If I was a single mother who couldn't afford child care and could only work 3-4 part-time shifts per week, I would probably hope that tipping was allowed, so that I had a chance of earning more than whatever my employer was paying me.

I wasn't in that situation though. During the years I worked in restaurants, I often worked multiple jobs. Sometimes part-time office work plus restaurants, sometimes more than one restaurant, sometimes bartending in addition - and when I lived in Boston, being a street musician was always my primary source of income.

If restaurant work paid $15/hour with no tipping allowed, I probably would've tried to get a job here in the Villages when I moved down, instead of working at Publix.

I once gave my server a $50 cash tip, on a $200 bill. She remembers me to this day. The service and food was well worth it. It was 25%. My wife was in favor of it.

So Mr Sinatra…tell us where u ate that a waitress deserved $50. Please be specific of what she did for u

Once again, context is everything. Note the bolded. I don't need a waiter to just deliver food and smile. Counter clerks can do that.

Minimum service for a tip: offer us water and/or other beverage before we even order food. Bring it, if we ask for it. Ensure that our table is clean and has all the cutlery necessary for a guest to eat at their restaurant. Take the order efficiently. Ensure that our food is delivered efficiently and correctly. Pause to make sure everyone got what they ordered and that it at least -looks- right, before walking away. Return after a few minutes to see if everyone's food is prepared properly and tastes satisfactorily to the guest. Ask if they want anything - condiments, more lemon for their tea, a refill on the water, another beer, another basket of bread, etc. etc. Make eye contact every time you pass the table, in case the guest wants to flag you down for something new. Assist them promptly, or apologize for any delay, if applicable. Around 20 minutes after their food was placed on their table, return again to see if they're finished, or almost finished. If so, ask if they want dessert and/or another drink. Make sure the busboy has taken the empty plates off the table (or do it yourself if there's no available busboy). Present the check. Smile with each step of this process.

That is the MINIMUM required, to get any tip at all. If they fail to do these things, then it's worthy of a complaint. This is the minimum I was trained to deliver, to ensure that I still had a job the following week. And this is the minimum I expect from my server as well.

Thank you. I still don't like the concept ot tipping as an expectation. I don't like that the business shifts a part of their financial obligation to the employee onto the customer. It is unfair to both customer and employee. Employees don't have a steady paycheck they can count on and the customers pay more out the door for food+ 20÷ than the relatively smaller increase in cost to cover the expected rise to full service wage.

Bottom line is, if you get a really good server a 20% tip is whats considered appropraite. Sometimes I'll do a bit more. If they don't do a good job, I adjust the tip accordingly.

The concept of servers making little per hour and more on tips is basically incentive pay.

In theory they'll work harder to make your visit enjoyable. But as we all know it's not a perfect world, and it doesn't always work out that way.

But if you don't like that concept, that's a you problem.

I work for the biggest food dist in the world as a sales rep. I sell to independent reaturants, so I see it all. The good, the bad and the ugly.

But any of the rockstar servers will tell you they would much rather work for tips because they know they can make really good money, and many do. It's the American way, reward hard work.

I am not a big an of the system, primarily because it makes providing a decent wage to the waitstaff a voluntary payment. We all know that if the waitstaff were paid a decent wage, and tipping became passe, the menu price would reflect the extra cost of that wage.

What the low-ball tippers don't want to recognize is that in the restaurant business there are plenty of down times when the place is empty. These times are not always predictable. Waitstaff has to be on hand to serve, and that is a cost borne by the restaurant even when nobody is dining. The low-wage + tip system mitigates that risk to the business somewhat.
Unfortunately for the waitstaff, they sit there with nothing to do, making less than minimum wage, and earning no tips because they are not serving any customers.
Then when things get busy, everyone is hustling like crazy trying to take care of their diners, and every diner there expects to treated as if they were the only table in the place.

The dead times and the rush times get rolled up into one big ball. When you dine, and you tip, you are participating in the system as it exists, not as you think it should be. When you tip, you are pulling your weight, recognizing that your tip helps smooth out the up and down times. When you don't tip, or you find some reason why you shouldn't tip to the customary %, you are letting someone else pay your bill for you.

Even if I didn't tip ( give a monetary gift to my server) I would still pay my bill from the restaurant and thereby fulfill my obligation to the restaurant. Tipping is voluntary and, though somewhat customary here, it is not required. Saying that if you don't tip you are not pulling your weight is flawed perspective, insulting emotional blackmail. Not pulling your weight is not giving waitstaff full minimum wages and guilt tripping customers into picking up part of their financial obligation.

And your perspective is flawed because it pretends the world is as you would design it, instead of acknowledging that the world is as it is.

If that is the MINIMUM to get any tip, is that a 10%, 15%, or 20% tip?

If they don’t smile, do you not tip?

Oh, I do tip. Not because it's the way it should be, but because that is the custom of our time. A custom that hail back to a time when lords and ladies might reward with a gift, some servant that pleased them. Having to rely on the generosity of strangers for gifts reinforces old class distinctions.
My argument is simply philosophical. Expecting the employer to pay their employee for what they do for the business seems appropriate. After all, when a server at the jewelry counter at a department store brings you the watch you buy, do you tip them or do they get paid buy the store?

In that case, as it turns out, we are in agreement.

This is an article on tipping in Los Angeles. Strong views - just like on TOTV!

'Deceiving and disgusting': Readers react to the rise of restaurant service fees

Bingo.

I knew a fellow back home who was a morning waiter at a local Perkin's Restaurant. Perkins is about as middle-of-the-road as you can get and breakfast tabs aren't usually all that much. But this guy had worked that shift at that restaurant for years and really knew his stuff--and his customers. A lot of the customers were regulars: he'd learn their names and their preferences after a few visits hot coffee, water with no lime, a large orange juice, or whatever they routinely ordered would show up at their table unordered. He never went anywhere empty-handed--a sure sign, according to my wife, of exceptional wait staff. He also knew the menu inside out and was never shy about sharing his opinions. He obviously loved his job and his tip income was as much or more--often a lot more--as he'd earn in wages on a shift.

In my opinion the go-getters prefer the tip system. The ones who move a bit more slowly--well--

Note that the receipt in the article shows a 15 percent mandatory service fee. That is not a tip.

Again, you are confusing a server with a friend. They don’t have to remember your name, in fact to me that can be yucky. They don’t have to remember how you like your water, you can tell them. And they certainly don’t have to share their opinions unless asked. There maybe some lonely individuals that need this kind of ego boost from a stranger but to assume everybody does?

Possibly not but there needs to be an explanation for what it is.

I see a line for Corazon Iced Tea so I assume the diner received Corazon Iced Tea and the charge is for the Corazon Iced Tea. I see a line for Almond Butter Toast so similarly I assume that charge is for the Almond Butter Toast the diner received. When I see a charge for Service I assume that is for the Service I received.

The Service Charge may not be a voluntary tip (the word "mandatory" seems to take voluntary out of the equation) but if it is 15% added to the bill to cover service then it is performing the function of the tip I would have left so I will adjust any additional tip accordingly.

I would prefer to do away with the US custom of tipping but I recognize that it is here today. But the owners should not add fees and charges to the bill to mislead the customers about the true price of the meal and confuse them into tipping more (or less) than they would otherwise choose to.

I didn't read it that way at all.

The server at the Perkins could have done a perfectly acceptable job of bringing coffee, asking for orders, and handing out the food. That's all servers are really required to do. This Perkins server went above and beyond that and provided extra service deserving of extra recognition (tip).

If a server goes out of their way to try to make my experience better I will thank them for that. I won't call it "yucky" or tell them to keep their meal suggestions to themselves.

For a party of 6 or more with a mandatory service fee of 18%, are you supposed to tip on top of that? And do you tip on the 18%?

So for a $500 bill plus a $90 service fee, should you tip $75 (15% of $500) or $88.50 (15% of $590)?

And if the restaurant called it an 18% gratuity fee instead of a service fee, would that make a difference?

I would just add that the IRS does not consider any mandatory payments for service to be "tip" income that would qualify for the special tax treatment rules that they use. For example, the restaurant could not include mandatory service charges on their W-2 forms as an "allocated tip". And the restaurant could not use mandatory service charges as a credit towards their minimum wage calculation, if they are paying servers less than the minimum wage.

As I understand it, mandatory charges are not considered tip income for tax purposes, regardless of what you call them.

For me, almost always, if the restaurant chooses to add a gratuity, whether due to the size of the party or just their policy, I am not likely to leave anything more. This often works out in my favor since I would typically leave more than 18%.

That may be tough on the server but I see it like this:
- If the restaurant has a policy of only cooking steak well done and that cuts down on the number of customers and therefore reduces the tips the server would have otherwise received, the server has the choice to move to a restaurant without such a policy.
- Likewise, if the restaurant has a policy of adding a service charge and it reduces the tips the server would have otherwise received, the server has the choice to move to a restaurant without such a policy.
- I am not obligated to continue to eat at the restaurant that overcooks my steak and I don't feel obligated to tip above what the restaurant feels is appropriate to automatically add to my bill

I understand it that way too which is why I dislike the practice so much. I believe the restaurant is allowed to use any or all of the mandatory service charge as part of the tipped-minimum wage that they are required to pay the servers. Essentially, the mandatory *service* charge becomes a "because we don't want to raise our prices" charge. To me that is dishonest and deceiving and I would have a very hard time going back to that restaurant.

But if the restaurant is going to list it as a "service charge" and is over and above the price for the meal then I am going to treat it just that way: as a charge for the service I received which is over and above the labor amount included in the price of the meal. That may not work out well for the server which ultimately may not work out well for the restaurant.

I don't think the IRS would agree with you. I will need to look up the IRS rules, but I am pretty sure that they consider a tip to be a voluntary payment to a "tipped" employee from a customer. That is why they give special tax treatment to tipped employees.

I believe we see things the same way.

The IRS doesn't treat the mandatory service charge as a tip. It doesn't belong to the employee and it is not used as a credit to bring the tipped-minimum wage up to the minimum wage. The mandatory service charge belongs to the employer just as the money collected for the Corazon Iced Tea belongs to the employer.

The IRS sees it that way, the employer may use it that way, but that doesn't mean I have to like it or that I have to return to the restaurant that chooses to add it to my bill.

I would consider the mandatory service charge a tip. If the restaurant does not share that with the server, then that is between the server and the restaurant.
If, as has been explained, the MSC is a way to offset the rising cost of menu items, then why charge it only to large groups? That makes no sense to me.
I have also read that the MSC reflects an effort of the restaurant to provide a reasonable wage for the waitstaff, which again would indicate that tip would be unnecessary, and also leaves the question of why only large parties get to participate in this largesse.

I always thought it was to make sure the server(s) did not get stiffed by a large group. Serving a large group may require enough effort and time to constitute a very large portion of the server's hours, and getting stiffed would be more impactful by the large group than a table for two. For example, if Mr. "I never tip more than 5%" were in charge of the bill, the server would have a bad night indeed.

But I wouldn't be surprised if it was also a way for the restaurant to get a hand on some of that tip money.

What is yucky is asking you for your name AND then remembering it. That is not necessary, in my opinion. They are not going to call on you for service.

X % added to parties of 8 or more IS the tip, that policy is to prevent the server from getting stiffed or undertipped. But MSC and other nonsense fees do not go to the server; as noted they are so the restaurant can avoid a price increase and having to reprint menus.

Of note is that if the policy of some MSC is not clearly posted either on the menu, the entry door or some other obvious location, you can ask to have it removed, and I would. A place back home started adding 4% MSC to checks during covid to make up for reduced traffic. I sympathized with their plight and always happily paid it. But once covid ended and volume was back to normal, they continued to place the charge bc they realized most people don't scrutinize the check and will just pay it. I always ask for it to be removed, and they always comply without argument. If they refused to remove it, I would stop patronizing their establishment. Vote with your feet.

I remember sitting with my wife in the old Sonrise Cafe and listening to a group of about 6-8 lady golfers actually arguing whether to leave .50 cents or a Dollar each as a tip.
It was quite revealing.

Ive learned a lot from this thread. I know now to tip differently.
I see that waitstaff can be paid around $7 per hour but min wage is around $12

So from now on I will keep track of the time we spend at the table. One hour…tip will be $5 to bring them up to minimum wage.

And that may be too generous for unmotivated people who wont go out to get an education or trade.

You will, with that logic, be tipping more generously for slower service.