You might be very surprised at how really good tips can be.

Excuse me but doesn’t one need to do that to get a job in the first place? Or perhaps I’m just old fashioned.

Fun with mathematics:
The shift has 4 waitresses, 1 bartender.
Also 1 grill cook, 1 "other" kitchen worker who puts together salads and such, 1 hostess, 1 busboy.

Only the waitresses and bartender get tips, but the tips are pooled and divided among all non-management employees.

One waitress hustles like crazy and serves 20 parties during her shift, 10 of which are parties of 4, 6 are parties of 2, and 4 parties of 6. Her total tips for the night is $500.

Two waitresses do a pretty good job, not as good as the one above, and they earn $300 each that night, for a total of $600 between the two.

The fourth one is having a bad night, dropped someone's water glass, and had one party of 2 stiff her for a tip completely. She only took in $100 that night.

The bartender took in $1000 in tips, because bartenders can actually do that sometimes.

Total tips that night are $2200. Now divide that by the 9 employees who each get a cut of the tips. That rounds up to $244 per person in tips. Even though only 3 employees actually EARNED more than $100 in tips. Why should the bartender only get $244 when she busted her butt to earn $1000? Why should the chick who had a lousy night and broke a water glass get more than the $100 she earned? Why should the guy who makes salads get the same amount as the waitress who earned $300, and why should she get less than the $300 she earned? Why should the hostess, whose only job is to grab menus and bring customers to tables, get any tip at all?

Answer: they shouldn't be getting these amounts. They absolutely should not. You earn it, you can keep it or pool it. The only people who MIGHT be earning less than minimum wage are the waitresses and the bartender. They are the only people who are entitled to any tips at all. But when you pool tips, the one who does a lousy job gets the same amount as the person who busted their butt.

That is unfair, and wrong, and doesn't give anyone an incentive to do a good job. Why should I do a good job, if I can do a lousy job and get the same tip money that the chick who does a good job gets? Why should I do a good job, if the best I can hope for is whatever the lousy chick gets?

When I meet any service worker who is pleasant and trying to do a good job, it makes me happy, and I want to show my appreciation.

Because most restaurants have to pay taxes on sales. Back in my days 35 years ago, we had to pay taxes on 10% of our sales. So if you tip 5% you are hurting the server.
If you or a regular anywhere I sure the servers know you and give you what you pay for.
Here’s what tipping right gets you. I walk in to my favorite place before I even sit the servers have my club soda in hand, they care how am doing, and the smiles never stop. They are very kind to me and my family because they know I appreciate that they are taking care of us. Tipping right is a big win win for everyone.

Wow in my day, we didn’t pool but we had to tip out to the bartender, bus boy and host and then we kept the rest.
I would not work in a place if I had to share my tips with other servers……period

Yes I tip when I order curbside 5-10%.

You can do whatever you want with mathematics. Is this what happens in real life? How many places pool tips? 10%, 50%, 100%? I am sure that if this actually happens, the bartender and good waitress would be gone after two weeks.

Even under this example, even the lousy waitress working 5 nights a week for 48 weeks, would make over $58,000. And I have heard some people don’t report all of their income on their taxes.

Looks like you are going to need a bigger golf cart.

If anyone has worked as a waitress or bartender, please provide your input.

When I worked for a resort one summer, our tips were pooled. It was horrible. I did a pretty good job most of the time - had a bad day here, a bad shift there, but mostly positive. We weren't even allowed to see how much tips we were getting, the meals were billed to the customer's room and they paid tips when it was time to settle at the end of their stay.

The first week, I got less than $20 in tips. That was for two tables of 12 people, mixed guests from different rooms, for breakfast and dinner, for 7 days. No explanation of why it was so low but I didn't care, I left that job.

I've worked in small restaurants as well, where I might get $50 in tips for a shift. I bartended in a place where I got around $80 in tips for early afternoon/suppertime on a Friday, and maybe $10 on a Monday lunch (never bartend on mondays - it's the worst tipping day ever). This was when the normal minimum wage was $6-something, and tipped servers got $4-something. So $80 was definitely a good day, then.

We weren't required to tip out the busboy but everyone did. Usually 10% of whatever our tips were. The busboy got normal minimum wage, but he worked almost as hard as the waitstaff did. He'd usually end up between $30-50 in his pocket on a good night on top of his wages.

Because the bartender had his own customers, and was the only waitstaff that got normal minimum wage, we didn't kick in anything to him. He took in more than we did.

Most waitresses don't get 5-night shifts. Any waitress who works on a monday afternoon can tell you - you won't be making bubkes that day. If the managers doesn't like them, OR if they're a new employee, they will generally not be scheduled for Thursday-Sunday dinner shifts, because those are for more seasoned (or more liked) employees. Those are the money-making shifts.

Happy hour shifts are the worst. People are looking for a bargain. You tip 25% of the bill - but it was a BOGO happy hour and you actually received 4 drinks and only tipped for two of them because the other two were free and 25% of 0 is 0.

If you had tipped 15% of the total before discounts, they'd be ahead of the game. But that'd mess up your "get stuff cheap" strategy for happy hour.

But yes tips can be pooled 100% - unless they're cash tips. And then, that's only because smart, but disobedient wait staff pocket that cash tip and don't report it to the manager. The only tips that are guaranteed to be spread among the staff are credit card tips, because the manager sees those automatically.

The tipping pools differ from one place to the next. In some, bartenders get to keep 100% of their own tips, and only the waiter tips are spread. In some, the kitchen staff doesn't get any tipped funds, only the busboy gets a piece of that. In some, the hostess gets something, others, they don't. But whenever there is pooling, you know for absolute sure, that the person who EARNED the most of the money that gets pooled, will not get that much. And the person who EARNED the least, will get more than they earned.

Also yes, turnover is horrendous in many restaurants because the servers learn after they're hired that their earned money doesn't necessarily all go to them. That's one of the reasons some restaurants are so short-handed, why customer service in them is so horrible, why it looks like some of the servers are always annoyed, or make so many mistakes. Managers will hire almost anyone, just to fill the position. And then they either quit or get fired within a few weeks and they have to start over again.

That is unfair, and wrong, and doesn't give anyone an incentive to do a good job. Why should I do a good job, if I can do a lousy job and get the same tip money that the chick who does a good job gets? Why should I do a good job, if the best I can hope for is whatever the lousy chick gets?[/QUOTE]

I agree! Tip pooling needs to be done away with. A gift to one person becomes the property of that one person, imHo, and what they agree to do or chose to do with their gift is up to them. Forcing the "gifted" to share their gift is robbery. Forcing them to share their gift under threat of losing their job is extortion But, that is not my responsibility. I walked in for a hamburger and a Coke.
This whole issue wouldn't exist if wait staff were paid a
full wage and tipping didn't exist.

A gift to one person becomes the property of that one person, imHo, and what they agree to do or chose to do with their gift is up to them. Forcing the "gifted" to share their gift is robbery. Forcing them to share their gift under threat of losing their job is extortion
[/QUOTE]

A "Tip" is not a "gift", it is a voluntary payment for services and it is NOT rendered to a "person", but to a company that person works for. If a server in a "shared tip" environment chooses to keep a cash tip to herself/himself, they are thieves.

Simply to prove the lack of logic to your position: If you pay in cash for an item with a $50 bill and when you get home, you found you were only given change for a $20 bill ... who do you call and who do you hold responsible? If you hand cash to a person who is working at a business, that cash is the property of the business.

///

A "Tip" is not a "gift", it is a voluntary payment for services and it is NOT rendered to a "person", but to a company that person works for. If a server in a "shared tip" environment chooses to keep a cash tip to herself/himself, they are thieves.

Simply to prove the lack of logic to your position: If you pay in cash for an item with a $50 bill and when you get home, you found you were only given change for a $20 bill ... who do you call and who do you hold responsible? If you hand cash to a person who is working at a business, that cash is the property of the business.[/QUOTE]


I would point out that both Federal law and the courts have determined that, when a customer gives a tip to a restaurant server, the tip is the property of the server, not the restaurant. There are a few exceptions where tip pooling is allowed, but they would be exceptions to the general rule.

In the past before I knew about pooling I strictly tipped the server. If I knew that “the company” was taking it, there would have been no tip at all.They can raise the prices if they need it so much and pay proper wages. The servers are not working on commissions.

What company is taking tips? I doubt that it is true.

That is how I read the above post. Perhaps I misunderstood. My impression of tipping was a thank you for the service the individual has provided for you.

Sometimes I consider their situation. I had an incident where an older handyman came to fix my fridge drawer for me. He couldn’t but I tipped him for coming out, his gas and trying although he, himself, charged nothing. Then I fixed the drawer myself. I believe he was working for himself so no wages from a different source.

I have a question: do the “suggested” tips on machines etc include the tax when a percentage is taken? Am I tipping the IRS as well?

So glad I rarely eat out.

I don't have any of these restaurant complaints that so many on TV have.

WRONG! Big time!!
The "tip" or, more properly, gratuity is a gift of appreciation to the server, and no one else, for their attention and service. Maybe, to circumvent your larcenous suggestions, customers should tip via check, in a sealed envelope with written instructions to open at a later time in the presence of their attorney.

I was told that the average villager eats out 4X a week, on average.

[QUOTE=BrianL99;22 If you pay in cash for an item with a $50 bill and when you get home, you found you were only given change for a $20 bill ... who do you call and who do you hold responsible? If you hand cash to a person who is working at a business, that cash is the property of the business.[/QUOTE]

If I pay in cash for an item, I count my change before putting it in my pocket. But, if I didn't, for some strange reason, and when I got home and found an error, I might call the establishment where I purchased the item, but ultimately, the responsibility is mine for failing to check my change. The payment is for the item, remember?
If, however, after paying for the item, I choose to give the server a gift/tip/gratuity for their personal service, that gift is for them and not for would be thieves to take it from them.

That depends on how the machines were programmed; I have seen the calculation done both before and after tax.

By the way, this has nothing to do with the IRS - sales tax is collected by the State.

Don't go by suggested tips on machines and verify that the tip hasn't already been added. You may be tipping on the added tip. Make sure your bill is correct and then tip what YOU feel is appropriate. Don't be embarrassed or emotionally blackmailed into tipping what someone else wants you too.

I agree, but do the math. If a restaurant has $1,000,000 in gross sales and receives 15 percent of it in tips, that is $150,000. So, if they program their receipt machine to incorrectly collect a 7 percent sales tax on the tip income, they will be overpaying their sales tax bill to the state by $10,500. I cannot imagine that many restaurants would be foolish enough to do that.

You clearly don't understand how small businesses function. In order to make a profit and thus stay in business, you have to charge, in aggregate, more than the total cost of your expenses. Those expenses include wages. So let's hypothetically say that tipping was not customary (Japan is like that, you are expected NOT to tip). So instead of gratuities, the restaurant owner pays the waitstaff 20% more than they currently do. What do you think happens as a result? They raise the price of EVERY ITEM on the menu in order to still make the same profit. So does every other sit down restaurant. So you end up paying that "tip" either way. If you understood that, you wouldn't consider my "BS crack" to be passive aggressive, but rather, common sense.

You're welcome, and yes, I am a former small business (not restaurant) owner.

I thought the question was about how the suggested tip was calculated.

If my purchases total $100 I would be charged $7 in tax for a total of $107. Is the suggested 20% tip calculated to be:
- $20 because it is based on the pre-tax amount?
- $21.40 because it is based on the post-tax amount?
I have seen both.

Note: Neither of those affect the amount of tax paid to the State (and County). That amount is calculated on the $100 sales total regardless of how the machine calculates the suggested tip.

Not the way I read the post. I think the poster wanted to know if they were being charged sales tax on the tip amount, and, thereby, giving money to the Government that was not owed.

Sales tax does not apply to tip income as long as the tip is completely voluntary. If the tip is mandatory, then sales tax does apply.

Yes, if they raised the prices, that would be honest and transparent. I’m good with that.

Thank you, you clarified what I was struggling to say.

So, lets say, i go to a restaurant and order a burger and a coke. Someone next to me orders a filet mignon with a coke. So the smiley waitress delivers our orders.
The wonderful smiley waitress did nothing more in service to either of us. So we are both to tip her or him 20% of the check?

I know? Foolish isn't it? Probably twice as much for 1 plate brought to the table. The % deal is a scam. Equal pay (read "tip") for equal work!

No, you'd tip possibly just 15%, if that was the minimum expected customer service provided. If the expected customer service should have been more than that, and the smiley waitress failed to provide that minimum customer service, I personally suggest tipping nothing, and asking to speak with the manager, to the side, not in front of other customers or wait staff. The waitress might need some course correction, or she might've just had an off day. Or she might be just really bad at her job.

Personally, I expect more from a server than simply delivering food and smiling at me. That would be worthy of a 0 tip and a complaint to the manager.

Simple answer: Yes

Longer answer: Yes, because whether you know it or not, you want it that way. You want the smiley waiter who delivers the quality of service deserving of the 20% tip on the filet. If more customers chose not to tip then that smiley waitress that provided the good service might find somewhere else to work.

Still longer answer: Yes, because you really don't want to lose the service and whether you know it or not, you really don't want to pay the price that would come with a non-tipping restaurant. While you ordered only a burger and a coke, you ordered that from a restaurant that also serves filet mignon. It is likely that such a restaurant has a "filet mignon" quality of service, something better than you might find at a fast food restaurant. You like that quality of service and that's why you ordered a burger there rather than somewhere else. If you want that quality of service you have to have a level of compensation that attracts servers able and willing to provide it. If the restaurant chooses to go to non-tipping they will need to raise prices in order to continue to pay their servers. The price of the filet may go up 20% but that would make a very expensive steak outrageously expensive. Another alternative would be to raise the price of the filet a little less than 20% while raising the lower-priced items more than 20%. The good servers would continue to get the pay they deserve but the money would come from the price of the meals rather than tips. Every customer would pay more, probably about 22% more (the increased cost would come with increased sales tax) but your burger would likely increase even more than that.

Now you finally got it.

congratulations.
If you can afford the filet, you can afford the tip.

Equal pay for equal work! Deliver one plate of food, hamburger or filet should be equal. What I can afford shouldn't enter in to it. What if you can afford the filet, but want a burger. Your logic would have you paying the cost of filet for the burger because you can afford to. That is just stupid. How about a car wash that provides the same service for all cars but expects payment based on your car's value. Cadillac price for the Chevy service, just because " you can afford it". Idiocy, imHo.

Whatever makes you feel better about being a skinflint apparently works for you, so go with it.

They are taxed 15% on their total sales. If they get less than 15% tip, they still get taxed 15%.

The restaurant reports 8 percent of gross sales as tip income and reports it on the server's W-2, in Box 8, "allocated tips". The server only needs to pay income tax on that amount. It doesn't matter whether or not the tips were paid in cash or credit card, it is based on the restaurant's total gross sales that they report as income to the IRS. That is the IRS rule.

You really should check your "facts" before presenting them as facts.

If that were a requirement to post on TOTV, there would be far fewer posts!!