Careful what you wish for
 

Those who are wishing for more tickets to be written should be careful what they wish for. :cus: :spoken:

Only if you fight it.$325 if you don't.

Can't ticket anyone that doesn't break the law.

I'd rather see police at any of the traffic circles on Buena Vista giving out 'illegal left turn' tickets to those who like to ride around to the third exit in the outside lane. My favorite would be Buena Vista and Bailey's Trail, they could write one per minute during the day.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/La...9f7e1d!6m1!1e1

If you think Morse Blvd has speeders on the road and golf cart path, you should see St. Charles speedway. I'm surprised so many get away with speeding.

:agree:

There's a difference between the police doing their job and harassing people for minor violations.

The US Supreme has ruled that a lot of those little towns that set themselves up as speed traps are in violation of the constitution.

In the end, the job of the police is to protect the public. Giving a ticket to a driver going 1 or 2 mph over the limit is not protecting anyone. Those drivers are not endangering anyone.

Most judges will toss out cases where a driver is cited for going 5 mph or less over the limit. They will often reprimand the officer for wasting the court's time.

Florida state law is that if you are driving 5mph or less over the speed limit (barring any unusual circumstances like a stopped school bus), there is no fine, only a warning.

Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

I B guilty of speeding here.

It beats me why the 19.9 keeps coming up. The max speed limit for carts is 20 mph. I think the confusion lies with the fact on carts, gas or electric at 19.6 mph the cart is set to throttle down. In an earlier post someone mentioned do gooders celebrating someone getting a speeding ticket for doing 21 mph. I celebrate when someone in a golf cart on a rare occasion gets a speeding ticket for doing 26 mph passing another cart doing 20 on morse blvd. Chances are they are the same ones passing on blind curves of the cart paths.

:agree: I agree with the above two posts. It's so simple -- The Police can't ticket anyone that doesn't break the law.

With all of the talk about lack of police presence on Morse near the scene of the accident, I'm so surprised to now see folks complaining that they are there doing their job. DONT SPEED, then you don't have to worry about it.

I do not think the police are giving out tickets for going 1 or 2 over......seriously!! And I don't think they are out "harassing" anyone either.

AND...... I agree. It would be fantastic to see officers out there doing NOTHING but picking out the violators.

As I understand it, the ticket blitz is the sheriff's answer to the original purpose of the meeting; to make safety improvements to the road/cart path. You can plaster the whole road with tickets but nothing really has been done to correct the underlying design errors and problems when the road was built.
You are mixing carts at 800 pounds with 3600+ pound vehicles, with the carts traveling at 2/3 the speed of the bigger vehicles and with only about 3 feet of separation. Then you force carts to cut across 2 traffic lanes to make a left turn or to enter traffic if turning in from a side street (depending on which way you are going); not to mention the southbound Russian roulette game required to get to the tunnel under HY 466.

To my knowledge almost all of the cart accidents have been from errors or lack of judgment in turning, not speeding cars and carts running over each other.

They say vehicle counts are up to 15,000 per day. Assume that 80% of that is from 9AM and 5PM, and deduct another 20% more for vehicles that only travel short distances. So maybe you have a "steady stream" of 9,600 vehicles during the 8 hour day busy time. Divide that by 480 minutes in an 8 hour day and you have a vehicle passing every 3 seconds. (even halve my numbers and you have a vehicle every 6 seconds) Top that off with a long stretch of the road without any traffic signals and many side streets funneling in traffic at a random rate. So, you have no "blocking" of vehicles that allow traffic-free spaces for turning across lanes. AND IT IS WORSE AT THE SOUTH END AT THE 466 GATE where the gate keeper's main function is to cram, as fast as possible, 2 lines of cars into one lane going North. They could care less that 5, 7, or even sometimes 10 carts can be stacked up southbound in the middle of Morse trying to make the left turn onto the cart path to get to the 466 tunnel!

So what is really needed? A tunnel at the HY 466 crossover, a separated golf cart path moved over on the existing shoulder of the road, and if not that, a series of traffic lights timed to control the flow of traffic.


Will any of that be done? Probably not. The roads are the responsibility of the County and I don't see it spending any money to correct the Developer's original errors in design and implementation. So what will probably happen, the cops will continue to write tickets, collect money for the County coffers, and say all is well until there are a couple more bad accidents and the whole complaint cycle begins again.

I'm sure you never roll through a stop sign, or forget to use your turn signal, go two or three miles over the speed limit. And going 21 in a cart is not like a car going 40 in a 35 zone. It's like a car going 36.75 mph in a 35 zone.

THERE ARE SOME of us who stop at all stop signs AND always use our turn signals.

We are usually first born, have never been behind on a bill and still save our money. AND were born and raised in Ohio.
Sometimes we do inch past the speed limit. No one is perfect.

I agree with much of this, but if you drive on that road you know that there no way that a car passes a given point every six seconds. Many times I go through those gates and don't see another car in either direction for a quarter of a mile.
There is no way those numbers can be correct.

The gate keepers do a wonderful job of controlling the two lanes merging into one. Rather than contributing to the problem, as you seem to suggest, they make it safer.

I've never had a problem crossing over to make a left hand turn. I simply check my mirrors and am aware of my surroundings, use both electric and hand signals and change lanes when it is safe. It's only one lane that you have to cross by the way.

The same goes for getting to the tunnels going southbound. I find that once I signal with both my lights and hand cars slow down to let me in. On very rare occasions, a car does not let me go, so I wait for the next opportunity.

You mention "all of the golf cart accidents". I've lived here for three years and can only recall two. And, as you say, they were both caused by operator error and had nothing to do with the infrastructure.

There was also the incident where a driver had a medical episode and struck a bicyclist.

None of those had anything to do with the way that the road is built.

Having said that however, I do agree that it would be best if the paths were removed to off the roadway itself. That certainly would have prevented the three incidents that I mentioned. But, we need to look at what that would Buena Vista. Then, several tunnels would have to be built. I'd say three to four. The cart paths would have to accommodate two way traffic as they do everywhere else in TV. Is there enough room on both sides the entire length to build them? The areas where the paths would go are currently used for drainage. Can a system be designed and engineered to build cart paths an retain the drainage function? Is some of that property privately owned by homeowners whose homes back up to Morse?

I'm sure that there are many more questions that would have to be answered before a project like this could be attempted. A feasibility study would have to be done first to determine if it's even possible. Then the money has to be discussed.
i'm thinking we're talking about tens, if not hundreds of millions of dollars. Who is going to pay for it.

I agree with. I will never be done.

Jim 9922 - You posted, "...nothing really has been done to correct the underlying design errors and problems when the road was built." Might you know what the design standards were back when the road was developed in the 1980s; and what the design errors were that should not have been made?

Despite the difficulty in crossing Morse at the gate near 466 - does anyone know the accident stats at that location in the past few years? Would it be greater/fewer than the number of incidents at Morse/466A?

[QUOTE=Dr Winston O Boogie jr;1066732]I agree with much of this, but if you drive on that road you know that there no way that a car passes a given point every six seconds. Many times I go through those gates and don't see another car in either direction for a quarter of a mile.
There is no way those numbers can be correct.

I realize that in reality there is not a vehicle passing EVERY 6 Seconds. The "calculation" was intended to make a point. There are a lot of cars traveling that road. In practice there are "blocks" of traffic which do allow for left turns, but things do get hairy at times, especially during the Winter Season. As for the 466 southbound crossover; that's where someone will eventually get hit by a car coming out of the "starting gates".

All great posts, until they show up and ask the residents to fund the projects. People will start losing part of their properties to accommodate relocation of the traffic since tunnels and MMP's are not County tax issues. Those changes would not be a PWC issue so the CDD's would need to figure out how to pay for them. But, if it is as dangerous as many believe it is they might be willing to either pay for it or accept it for what it is and live with it. The accidents are always driver error, misjudgments, lack of patience or distractions.....some by the cart driver, some by the car driver but never (that I know of) mechanical error, the roadway forcing a vehicle into another or the gate keeper. My opinion is that a good start is enforcement since drivers will need to be trained.

[quote=Jim 9922;1066806]There is nothing that I can think as an easy fix for LOTS of new people driving around in rental cars and trying to read a map during January, February and March.

I doubt when The Morses planned that part of Morse they never DREAMED we would be this big.

I wish the cart paths were separate from that major road and try my best to be very careful when I am driving both my car and cart in that area.

Just passed through there. Two cops, and each one had someone pulled over. Both cars were Northbound.

Thanks for the heads up
 

Thanks for the heads up. Two days in a row giving out tickets! :boom:

The speed limit on those roads is 25 mph. If I'm going down any of those hills at 25, mph why should I be cited for speeding? I guess I could be cited for having an unregistered vehicle since my golf cart is capable of going over 20 mph, but I would argue that every golf cart in The Villages is illegal.


Like I said, the cart that I saw pulled over yesterday going northbound on Morse was in the middle of a downhill grade just before San Marino Drive. Even if that cart is set to not exceed 19 mph on level ground with no wind, it may have gotten up over 20 on the downhill. Remember, there is no speed limit for golf carts.

My main point is that these laws are so vague that they may be unconstitutional. The conditions under which a golf cart is capable of going 20 mph should be stipulated in the law. As far as I know, except in a few spots like the Morse bridge over Lake Sumter there is no speed limit for golf carts.

The people that are complaining about the police harassing the public are not the same ones complaining about the lack of police presence. I don't think that most people think that there is a lack of police presence there at all. a few over zealous people go and make a scene and the reaction is a bunch of unnecessary tickets being handed out.

I would be surprised most people think that there is any kind of a problem there at all.

I'd like to se how many accidents there have been over the past ten years and how many of them involved a golf cart and car or truck. Like I said before, I've been here for three years and can only recall two. Both were the result of an elderly person making a huge mistake. Neither had to do with excessive speed or poorly designed roadways.

Maybe we should be looking at taking driving privileges away from people of a certain age, since age or faculties seems to be more of a problem than speeding, signage or poorly marked lanes.

Exactly,.....Does TV want to get a reputation and be on AAA's list of worst speed traps to avoid? I doubt the developer would like that. Given the tolerance of + and - of accuracy of police radar, and the fact that probably 90% of golf carts don't come with speedometers how can you ticket someone that is only going less than 1% over the limit? I have a speedometer and know that tail winds such as we have now can add 1 to 3 mph to my speed not to mention how going down hill will effect it. How does someone that buys a perfectly legal cart that doesn't come with a speedometer going to know that? If they did have a speedometer, what is the + or - accuracy of that speedometer? Giving tickets for less than 5 mph over the limit is harassment.

Traffic control on Morse
 

Somehow I don't think TV will get a rep for worst speed traps anymore than we might get one for worst whiners.

On the other hand, the latter might actually happen. Oh No.

Sheesh will everyone please lighten up.

Grrreat post, as always!

What I have noticed after living here full time for four years, as soon as the Big Money (Snowbirds) head home, the radar guns come out.Not looking for a bone to pick,just stating an observation.

Actually, my experience is the reverse. I see more "radar guys" once the "Big Money" people leave. By the way, I have no data to support this but I feel comfortable saying that you are incorrect about your assessment of snowbird bank accounts.

I've noticed the same thing. During the winter there are many more targets or tickets to write. Now since the heavy traffic is gone there is much less opportunities to write tickets and they tend to get more aggressive to keep up the income from traffic fines.

At the VHA golf cart safety meeting, Lt. Wolf said they do not give tickets for speeding to a golf cart unless radar says 25 miles hour or higher. This takes into consideration downhill speed. If in doubt call Sheriff's department and ask.

My experience supports that. I was stopped by SC sheriff on Oak Forest for going 24 MPH. He asked if I had a cart or LSV. Told him it was a cart and the motor had just been replaced because the original failed. He gave me a warning and told me to get the cart serviced to bring it to legal speed. That was all.

I've read both of your posts several times and I believer that you are in agreement.

I believe that overall, the snowbirds probably have more money than the full timers. I think that there are many full timers who, if they could afford to go north for a few months would. Many of us stay here year round because we cannot afford to own two homes.

You may be correct doc, but I love it here and have no interest in having a second home.

I'm sue that there are plenty of full timers who can afford a second home but choose to stay here int eh summer months. I didn't mean to imply that everyone that can afford a second home has one. But included in all of the people who stay year round are those that cannot afford a second home so it would bring the average net worth down.

We agree.

In the high season with with everyone being back I don't see so much speeding on morse or other roads with the heavier traffic. I witness a lot more aggressive driving, horn blowing, and alternative hand gestures. Just saying.

I was just in TV for 2 weeks and found myself scared to death of the golf carts. They don't stop at intersections. We're moving to TV in September and quite honestly, I don't ever see myself having the confidence to drive one. I love the 35MPH automobile speed limit. Felt much more confident then the 70MPH limit in my home town. But between the golf carts and the roundabouts, I was scared. I plan to take the class when we get moved in hopes that it will help me understand.

I wouldn't be too worried. If you take the time to learn proper procedures and take responsibility for your own safety, you will be fine...both handling the roundabouts and driving a cart.