[Indydealmaker]

I think that the "glass house" rule should apply here. If you live in one, stop throwing stones. From what I have seen here in my first month of residency, at least half of the residents live in those glass houses by breaking rules that are far more deadly than residency violations. Speeding is rampant and I have seen dozens of near accidents involving golf carts and autos because the golf cart drivers assume incorrectly that golf carts have the right of way. The best policy is to trust the system and stop trying to manipulate it. If a situation does not directly impact you, ignore it. Leave the policing to those directly and negatively impacted.

[iandwk]

We all know the rules. It's our choice to keep them or not, but we should be prepared to accept the consequences of our actions if we choose to break the rules for whatever reason.

I don't always come to a complete stop at stop signs. It isn't unsafe, because I am positive no one is coming and I am clear to make my turn. If I get caught by law enforcement, I don't have a leg to stand on. I know the law and I know I broke it. I will pay the fine. I think the same principle applies to this thread.

Right or wrong, when we knowingly or unknowingly break a rule, we may have to pay the price.

[Annabelle]

Interesting that those who post here in support of certain TV residents (who flagrantly ignore their deed restrictions) say it is out of a sense of "compassion" for these people.

I would like to know where is your sense of "compassion" for the residents who move to TV and discover they are living next door to someone who offers daycare in their home..... or even worst.....has underage children residing in their home on a permanent basis.

While "reckless" golf cart drivers, "inconsiderate" pet owners and "connoisseurs" of yard art may also be guilty of violating their deed restrictions, these infractions are hardly as serious as harboring an illegal resident in one's home.

VT2TV, Villa2, Iandwk and the others on this thread who believe that the long term success of TV depends greatly on the desire and willingness of it's residents to accept and honor the restrictive covenant set forth by the developers of TV:

"would you be mine, could you be mine, won't you please be my neighbor!"

Annabelle

[Barefoot]

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[springfield illinois]

I have found that if my neighbors start being concerned about my business... (notice i didnt say breaking the rules) if they are worried about me,, the best cure is for me to walk around in my house in my underwear, or put on my NINJA outfit, and jump off the furniture, and act like I slaying the dragons! REALLY give them something to worry about when they are looking thru my windows with binoculars.

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by springfield illinois

I have found that if my neighbors start being concerned about my business... (notice i didnt say breaking the rules) if they are worried about me,, the best cure is for me to walk around in my house in my underwear, or put on my NINJA outfit, and jump off the furniture, and act like I slaying the dragons! REALLY give them something to worry about when they are looking thru my windows with binoculars.

You've seen people looking thru windows with binoculars??

[memason]

I think someone might be hearing voices again...

[Challenger]

Originally Posted by Indydealmaker

I think that the "glass house" rule should apply here. If you live in one, stop throwing stones. From what I have seen here in my first month of residency, at least half of the residents live in those glass houses by breaking rules that are far more deadly than residency violations. Speeding is rampant and I have seen dozens of near accidents involving golf carts and autos because the golf cart drivers assume incorrectly that golf carts have the right of way. The best policy is to trust the system and stop trying to manipulate it. If a situation does not directly impact you, ignore it. Leave the policing to those directly and negatively impacted.

I bought in TV in part because of the deed restrictions. I for one want to see them enforced strictly everywhere and don't mind calling infractions to the attention of enforcing authorities. This is in everyone's best interest even if they don't believe so. If you bought here you agreed to the terms of ownership. A broken agreement is not good neighborship.

[LI SNOWBIRD]

Originally Posted by redwitch

I do know of a couple of kids living in TV in direct violation of the covenants. In one instance, the father died and the mother is serving in Iraq. The neighbors are well aware of the grandchild living there. They also know the circumstances. The grandparents are aware they are in violation but everyone felt it was in the best interests of all for the child to stay here. The grandparents actually spoke to each of their neighbors to explain the situation and all are in agreement that the child can stay for two years. The child is quiet and well-behaved and the darling of the block. Pool use is a non-issue -- they have their own pool. Neighbors fight to babysit. I doubt they would be as willing if it were a permanent situation but it is temporary and the child is truly adorable.

In the other situation that I know of, the grandparents were not as forthright and it is creating major issues. Odds are the grandparents will be selling their home and moving away -- they have custody of their grandson, who has some major issues. No one has reported them but the neighbors are pretty unhappy.

There are other rules broken in TV -- some deliberate, some completely unknowingly. I got a notice because my Queen Palm was trimmed on a Saturday but pick up wasn't until Wednesday. I thought it was okay to leave the fronds in the driveway. Apparently not. This was one time I ignored the notice since I knew it would be taken care of before anything could be done.

I have a neighbor working on his antique car in the driveway -- a definite no-no. He'll continue doing so until Community Watch stops it. He cleans up every afternoon and if the car isn't going to be worked on the following day, it goes into the garage. Most of us in this development won't report him. I'm sure one snowbird will if she comes down before the work is done.

The point is rules are broken and, personally, I think things should be taken on a case-by-case basis. A lot will depend on the neighbors as to what happens. Some things (unkempt lawns/weeds/dirty exterior) will be reported by CW when noticed. Some things will only come to light if someone complains. Some things will be discovered by TV because of ID cards, etc., especially now that everyone over the age of 1 must have some sort of card to use any TV facility.

Thanks for being the voice of reason and sharing.

[skyguy79]

Originally Posted by LI SNOWBIRD

Thanks for being the voice of reason and sharing.

It's common sense and not narrow mindedness that helps makes TV paradise for most of us!

[Challenger]

so we can brake some rules for some people some times , if we like the people who are breaking them , or if we agree that their cause is worthy, but not for others with whom we do not agree. My point is that this is a very slippery slope and can cause invalidation(if not enforced) of certain or possible all deed restrictions.

Not meant to be negative about extreme circumstances, but understanding about the ultimate course (unintended consequences)is important. Rather than ignoring the rules, there is or should be an appeals process that is fairly administrated to hear and pass on exceptions.

Obviously there are some very minor issues that occur and are rectified in a short period and making a big tado would be counterproductive.

[downeaster]

Originally Posted by Challenger

so we can brake some rules for some people some times , if we like the people who are breaking them , or if we agree that their cause is worthy, but not for others with whom we do not agree. My point is that this is a very slippery slope and can cause invalidation(if not enforced) of certain or possible all deed restrictions.

Not meant to be negative about extreme circumstances, but understanding about the ultimate course (unintended consequences)is important. Rather than ignoring the rules, there is or should be an appeals process that is fairly administrated to hear and pass on exceptions.

Obviously there are some very minor issues that occur and are rectified in a short period and making a big tado would be counterproductive.

I agree, Challenger. I have been down "the slippery slope" in two prior subdivisions. The consequences were not nice. Among other things, property values were effected.

I think we are better protected in a CDD of the magnitude of The Villages. The CDD has the wherewithal to enforce the restrictions.

I am not sure an appeals process would help. Once an exception was granted it could apply to all similar cases. If I obtain an exception to raise my grandchildren here why can't everyone do the same? (Don't worry. I have no intention of raising my grandchildren.)

[Challenger]

[QUOTE=downeaster;353603]I agree, Challenger. I have been down "the slippery slope" in two prior subdivisions. The consequences were not nice. Among other things, property values were effected.

I too have seen nasty result from good intentioned variances from the rules. Two particular areas that were a real problem were fence and satelite dish violations .

[Harry Gilbert]

I understand that this is an old topic but let me add a new wrinkle to the fracus.

There is a possibility that TV was aware of the youngster at some point ( I have no info that they did) Keep in mind that TV is in the business of selling houses, With the tough market over the past few years the last thing they would want would be negative publicity.

Imagine they did give the boot to Mom Mom ,Pop pop and the young child of a soldier serving in the middle east who's father had just died. How would that play out in the media. (anyone can drop a reporter a note) I can just see them on one of the morning fluff news shows. Can you imagine the fallout from senior groups, veteran groups, parent groups and so on. "Americas friendliest hometown" would take a beating publicly.

If it were me faced with the choice of kicking them out. Or riding it out and no one is raising a stink about it......

Technically it was against the rules but given the choice with the potential consequences with either choice what would you do?

And a side note if/when I buy there that's the neighborhood I want to be in!

[cabo35]

It would appear that we are on the slippery slope of one of the oldest legal debates in the world. Montesquieu's masterpiece, The Spirit of the Laws is a fascinating treatise on the social, cultural and political implications of law.

A biblical reference can be found in Romans 2:29 (New American Standard Bible)

29But (A)he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and (B)circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the (C)Spirit, not by the letter; (D)and his praise is not from men, but from God.

The best explanation for the debate I can find is from an author unknown in Wikipedia.

The letter of the law versus the spirit of the law is an idiomatic antithesis. When one obeys the letter of the law but not the spirit, one is obeying the literal interpretation of the words (the "letter") of the law, but not the intent of those who wrote the law. Conversely, when one obeys the spirit of the law but not the letter, one is doing what the authors of the law intended, though not adhering to the literal wording.

My best guess is that each of us selectively subscribes to the position that fits are comfort zone as defined by our personal values, experience and biases. That is not to say we might be for the letter of the law in some matters and for the spirit in others. Maintaining 25 mph in a 25 mph zone comes to mind.

By the way.....I am predominately a spirit of the law advocate.

4thekids