[FredJacobs]

Before you decide to add UMI or drop the coverage, find out the cost. My UMI coverage costs $35 per month. Like any other insurance, you come to believe that it is not needed or a waste of money because you haven't had to use it. Then comes the day you get hit by an uninsured motorist and you wonder why you dropped it.

[retiredguy123]

Most articles I have read about auto insurance recommend that you have $100K per person of uninsured motorist insurance. If you are depending on UM insurance to pay for your medical bills and to also pay for long term care and "pain and suffering" claims, how does that amount of coverage make any sense at all? To me, $100K is nowhere near an adequate amount of coverage. In many cases, it will not even cover the medical bills, which may be deducted from your UM claim, even if you have health insurance. So, for those who insist that everyone buy UM insurance, what limit of coverage do you actually have and do you really think that you are sufficiently covered?

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by lawgolfer

UM/UIM is the most important insurance you can buy. Any agent who tries to talk an insured out of having it should be flayed alive or buried up to his/her neck in an ant hill.

Liability insurance benefits someone you injure and protects your assets against a claim by the injured person.

UM/UIM insurance protects you and your family by stepping into the place of the uninsured/underinsured driver and pays for your medical care, lost earnings, and pain and suffering. If your claim is not resolved by negotiation, it goes to arbitration. Most arbitrators, myself included, lean in favor of the insured, recognizing that he/she has paid for the coverage and is deserving of its benefits.

UM/UIM covers claims "arising out of the use of an automobile". Thus, if you are a pedestrian and hit by an auto, whether on a street or in a parking lot, you have coverage. If you are riding a bicycle and a person throws open a car door in your path, you're covered. The UM/UIM coverage is very broad. It covers you and members of your family not only in the vehicle you have insured, but in any vehicle in which you or a family member is a passenger. This gives you great comfort when your teenage child is out riding with his/her no-good friend or your aged parent who lives with you is riding with his/her half-blind friend.

Perhaps the greatest benefit is the Underinsured Motorist (UIM) coverage as you get to choose the amount of protection you want for yourself, your family, and your passengers. It covers your damages in excess of the limits of the person who injured you. Thus, if that person had the minimum limits of 15/30 and you have UM/UIM limits of $1M, you can recover up to $985,000 from your own carrier. During the years I was practicing law in California with its outrageous number of uninsured/underinsured drivers, illegal aliens, druggies, etc, I spent a great deal of time driving to/from courthouses and law offices on some of the most high-risk roads in the country. To protect myself and my family, I carried UM/UIM limits of $5M as, were I to be killed or disabled, the odds were that it would be while in an automobile. Of course, now that I am retired, our children grown, and we are financially secure, I have reduced those limits to $1M. For anyone who thinks I was being overly cautious, I should mention that I had a 34 year old partner with a non-working wife and two young children, who was killed by a drunk driver.

The worst thing about insurance agents is that they sell insurance by price and not by the needs of the insured. Thus, as the OP noted, the agent told him that he didn't need UM/UIM so as to reduce the premium he quoted. Other agents tell their clients that UM/UIM is "not required". If an insurance agent tells you this, stand up and leave his/her office immediately.

The agent also told the OP that Medicare would cover his medical expenses. While this is true, everyone our age knows that Medicare is limited, particularly as regards long-term care. For those who have chosen an Advantage plan, your choice of doctors is further limited. UM/UIM coverage is only limited by the amount of coverage you are willing to buy.

I'll close this diatribe by telling the saddest I handled. A very successful man was referred to me by his business attorney. The man's son was killed when a passenger in a car of college students returning home after final exams overturned when the driver fell asleep (a not uncommon accident for students returning to California from college in Nevada or Utah). The driver had the minimum limits of 15/30 which his carrier promptly paid. The father wanted me to recover what I could from his own insurer, which the father thought had limits of $Millions. He intended to fund a scholarship in his son's name with whatever I was able to obtain. It turned out that his insurance agent had him sign a form declining all UM/UIM coverage as it substantially reduced the premium and the agent was competing on price with another agent. While he was very successful in his business, the father knew little about insurance. I knew the offending agent. I cussed him out to his face and bad-mouthed him to everyone I could for the years I remained in practice.

A few questions. Many "experts" recommend a UM limit of $100K per person. How far will $100K get you in paying for medical bills, lost earnings, and pain and suffering? How many people, who have UM coverage, buy a limit of $5 million, or even $1 million, and what is their premium? And, what insurance company will sell you UM coverage of $5 million as part of a regular auto policy? When I was shopping for auto insurance, GEICO would only sell me a personal liability limit of up to $250K. I didn't even ask about UM.

[lawgolfer]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

Most articles I have read about auto insurance recommend that you have $100K per person of uninsured motorist insurance. If you are depending on UM insurance to pay for your medical bills and to also pay for long term care and "pain and suffering" claims, how does that amount of coverage make any sense at all? To me, $100K is nowhere near an adequate amount of coverage. In many cases, it will not even cover the medical bills, which may be deducted from your UM claim, even if you have health insurance. So, for those who insist that everyone buy UM insurance, what limit of coverage do you actually have and do you really think that you are sufficiently covered?

You buy the basic insurance as the primary policy. The primary policy will be more expensive as it has many obligations, such as paying all of the fees of the attorney it has to hire to defend you against all lawsuits, whether they are frivolous or not. Primary carriers have to investigate all claims, whether by you under the 1st party coverage or by a 3rd party against you. They have to pay all the "nuisance" settlements in the lawsuits filed by the hordes of attorneys, cranked out by our law schools in the last 50 years, for the clients who watch their TV ads. They also have had to pay for all the "free" roofs obtained by so many of our fellow residents.

You then buy an "umbrella" policy. This provides "excess" coverage above the limits of your primary policies, both homeowners and auto. Also, it provides some additional coverage for claims that are excluded from the primary policy, such as for libel, slander, trespass, false arrest, and assault and battery (the 'Umbrella" part"). Get into a p***ing contest with a litigious neighbor and you'll learn why you need an "umbrella". This insurance is relatively cheap as it seldom comes into play, and when it does, many of the expenses have been or will be paid by the primary carrier.

Carriers selling "umbrella" policies are like title insurance companies. They always have ONE horror story where they had to pay out money, thereby saving an insured from ruin.

Since retiring, I have a primary policy with limits of 100/300, including UM/UIM, with an "umbrella" that raises both limits to $1M. I'm not sure that is enough; however, I don't drive as much as in the past; I don't have a litigious neighbor; and, my beautiful wife is certain to be a sought-after widow.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by lawgolfer

You buy the basic insurance as the primary policy. The primary policy will be more expensive as it has many obligations, such as paying all of the fees of the attorney it has to hire to defend you against all lawsuits, whether they are frivolous or not. Primary carriers have to investigate all claims, whether by you under the 1st party coverage or by a 3rd party against you. They have to pay all the "nuisance" settlements in the lawsuits filed by the hordes of attorneys, cranked out by our law schools in the last 50 years, for the clients who watch their TV ads. They also have had to pay for all the "free" roofs obtained by so many of our fellow residents.

You then buy an "umbrella" policy. This provides "excess" coverage above the limits of your primary policies, both homeowners and auto. Also, it provides some additional coverage for claims that are excluded from the primary policy, such as for libel, slander, trespass, false arrest, and assault and battery (the 'Umbrella" part"). Get into a p***ing contest with a litigious neighbor and you'll learn why you need an "umbrella". This insurance is relatively cheap as it seldom comes into play, and when it does, many of the expenses have been or will be paid by the primary carrier.

Carriers selling "umbrella" policies are like title insurance companies. They always have ONE horror story where they had to pay out money, thereby saving an insured from ruin.

Since retiring, I have a primary policy with limits of 100/300, including UM/UIM, with an "umbrella" that raises both limits to $1M. I'm not sure that is enough; however, I don't drive as much as in the past; I don't have a litigious neighbor; and, my beautiful wife is certain to be a sought-after widow.

Thanks. I am familiar with umbrella policies. But as a practical matter, most people do not buy an umbrella policy, so they are living with totally inadequate coverage that was recommended to them by an insurance "agent".

I had an umbrella policy years ago. I could be wrong, but I seem to remember that it only covered personal liability, not a "pain and suffering" claim under UM insurance, which doesn't involve any personal liability. I say this because I only had to increase my home and auto liability limits to qualify for the umbrella policy.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by lawgolfer

You buy the basic insurance as the primary policy. The primary policy will be more expensive as it has many obligations, such as paying all of the fees of the attorney it has to hire to defend you against all lawsuits, whether they are frivolous or not. Primary carriers have to investigate all claims, whether by you under the 1st party coverage or by a 3rd party against you. They have to pay all the "nuisance" settlements in the lawsuits filed by the hordes of attorneys, cranked out by our law schools in the last 50 years, for the clients who watch their TV ads. They also have had to pay for all the "free" roofs obtained by so many of our fellow residents.

You then buy an "umbrella" policy. This provides "excess" coverage above the limits of your primary policies, both homeowners and auto. Also, it provides some additional coverage for claims that are excluded from the primary policy, such as for libel, slander, trespass, false arrest, and assault and battery (the 'Umbrella" part"). Get into a p***ing contest with a litigious neighbor and you'll learn why you need an "umbrella". This insurance is relatively cheap as it seldom comes into play, and when it does, many of the expenses have been or will be paid by the primary carrier.

Carriers selling "umbrella" policies are like title insurance companies. They always have ONE horror story where they had to pay out money, thereby saving an insured from ruin.

Since retiring, I have a primary policy with limits of 100/300, including UM/UIM, with an "umbrella" that raises both limits to $1M. I'm not sure that is enough; however, I don't drive as much as in the past; I don't have a litigious neighbor; and, my beautiful wife is certain to be a sought-after widow.

In reviewing several articles describing umbrella policies, they define it as a personal liability policy. But, a UM claim for pain and suffering would not involve any personal liability of the insured. Are you sure that a typical umbrella policy would pay a UM claim for pain and suffering where you are not being sued? I am trying to understand what an umbrella policy will cover other than your own liability.

[JudyMonin]

If you want your car AND your “body” covered you must carry uninsured bodily injury AND uninsured property damage.

[FFlank]

I've enjoyed reading this thread. Post #23 pretty much covers it all. I've spent over 25 years on the bench and I can't tell you how many times I've seen litigants look back with regret on what they "should have done." All of us spend a ton of cash on insurance every year. We insure our homes, our health, our lives, our cars, etc. At some point it's natural to want to cut a corner or two. After all, why pay this year for something we have never used in the past? My house didn't burn down last year, so why buy insurance this year? For your sake, and the sake of your loved ones, don't give in to the temptation...you've made it this far in life, and you shouldn't risk your financial future on this issue. Spend the extra few bucks and sleep better.

[lawgolfer]

Originally Posted by FFlank

I've enjoyed reading this thread. Post #23 pretty much covers it all. I've spent over 25 years on the bench and I can't tell you how many times I've seen litigants look back with regret on what they "should have done." All of us spend a ton of cash on insurance every year. We insure our homes, our health, our lives, our cars, etc. At some point it's natural to want to cut a corner or two. After all, why pay this year for something we have never used in the past? My house didn't burn down last year, so why buy insurance this year? For your sake, and the sake of your loved ones, don't give in to the temptation...you've made it this far in life, and you shouldn't risk your financial future on this issue. Spend the extra few bucks and sleep better.

Great comment Judge. The only person who will protect you and yours is yourself.

My 34 year old partner who was killed by a drunk driver left a non-working wife with no particular job skills, and two young sons. His family received the limits of the drunk's auto liability policy. Next they received the limits of his primary UM/UIM policy less the payment made by the drunk's carrier; the UM/UIM limits of his umbrella policy, the firm's group life insurance policy; Social Security; and, interestingly, Workers Compensation from our firm's WC carrier as he was in the "course and scope" of his employment at the time of the accident, attending a legal seminar in another state.

As for myself, the only life insurance I carried for many years was our group life. I was always healthy. If I had any concern about my health, it was the stress and strains of a litigation practice, particularly arguing with judges who didn't see matters my way. Instead, I spent my insurance dollars on auto insurance with high limits for both liability and UM/UIM, and an umbrella with even higher limits. I reasoned that I was not likely to die of disease or a non-auto accident. Instead, I was more likely to be seriously injured or killed in an auto accident at the hands of an uninsured/underinsured driver given that our practice covered a large part of Central California which had large numbers of migrant farm workers and other poor people with little or no liability insurance. With the passage of years, our son's completion of grad school, and the shifting of the workload to the firm's younger attorneys, I increased the life insurance while maintaining the large UM/UIM limits. With retirement, I dropped the life insurance and severely reduced the UM/UIM limits.

Being in a small town, I walked both sides of the street and represented both claimants and insureds. For the last third of my years in practice, I spent the majority of my time on insurance coverage issues. As with my story of the rich man whose agent sold him a large auto policy with no UM/UIM coverage, I encountered numerous instances of bad acts by an insurance agent. For anyone that has even the slightest concern about the coverage he/she is being sold, my advice is to consult another company's agent or, preferably, an insurance broker who serves as your "agent" and not the insurance company's.

[FFlank]

Originally Posted by lawgolfer

Great comment Judge. The only person who will protect you and yours is yourself.

My 34 year old partner who was killed by a drunk driver left a non-working wife with no particular job skills, and two young sons. His family received the limits of the drunk's auto liability policy. Next they received the limits of his primary UM/UIM policy less the payment made by the drunk's carrier; the UM/UIM limits of his umbrella policy, the firm's group life insurance policy; Social Security; and, interestingly, Workers Compensation from our firm's WC carrier as he was in the "course and scope" of his employment at the time of the accident, attending a legal seminar in another state.

As for myself, the only life insurance I carried for many years was our group life. I was always healthy. If I had any concern about my health, it was the stress and strains of a litigation practice, particularly arguing with judges who didn't see matters my way. Instead, I spent my insurance dollars on auto insurance with high limits for both liability and UM/UIM, and an umbrella with even higher limits. I reasoned that I was not likely to die of disease or a non-auto accident. Instead, I was more likely to be seriously injured or killed in an auto accident at the hands of an uninsured/underinsured driver given that our practice covered a large part of Central California which had large numbers of migrant farm workers and other poor people with little or no liability insurance. With the passage of years, our son's completion of grad school, and the shifting of the workload to the firm's younger attorneys, I increased the life insurance while maintaining the large UM/UIM limits. With retirement, I dropped the life insurance and severely reduced the UM/UIM limits.

Being in a small town, I walked both sides of the street and represented both claimants and insureds. For the last third of my years in practice, I spent the majority of my time on insurance coverage issues. As with my story of the rich man whose agent sold him a large auto policy with no UM/UIM coverage, I encountered numerous instances of bad acts by an insurance agent. For anyone that has even the slightest concern about the coverage he/she is being sold, my advice is to consult another company's agent or, preferably, an insurance broker who serves as your "agent" and not the insurance company's.

Your years in the business have given you a great perspective, and your post was valuable to the thread. Glad that you are enjoying the fruits of your labor and I hope to be able to join you folks in TV in the near future.

[lawgolfer]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

In reviewing several articles describing umbrella policies, they define it as a personal liability policy. But, a UM claim for pain and suffering would not involve any personal liability of the insured. Are you sure that a typical umbrella policy would pay a UM claim for pain and suffering where you are not being sued? I am trying to understand what an umbrella policy will cover other than your own liability.

You appear to be confusing the additional coverage for "personal injury" in an umbrella policy with the increase in the limits for "bodily injury" in the underlying policy.

Both a homeowners policy and an auto policy cover "bodily injury" which means physical injury including pain and suffering. The umbrella policy adds a completely new coverage, that for "personal injury"

Personal injury is defined in the umbrella to include such things as false arrest, defamation, libel, slander, false imprisonment, and trespass. Some of these may cause a claimant to suffer "emotional distress". Such damages will be covered.

The "personal injury" coverage is a liability coverage. Liability insurance only pays for damages incurred by a "third party", i.e. the neighbor on whose property the insured trespassed or the contractor the insured slandered. Liability insurance, whether for bodily injuries or personal injuries, will never pay anything to the insured. It only pays the third party claimant for the harm done to him by the insured.

In addition to the coverage for "personal injury" in an umbrella policy, the umbrella will increase the limits of the underlying policies be they homeowners, auto, or both, for property damage and bodily injury. This means there will be more money to pay to a third party claimant and more to protect the assets of the insured. Again, nothing in a liability policy be it underlying or umbrella will be paid to the insured

If the insured in the underlying auto policy had UM/UIM coverage, he can increase the limits of that coverage in the umbrella policy. There is no additional coverage for UM/UIM in the umbrella policy. It simply increases the amount of money the insured can collect for injuries done to him by the uninsured or underinsured driver. The damages for which the insured can collect include the pain and suffering he incurred as a result of his bodily injuries caused by the uninsured/underinsured driver.

In summary, the coverage for "personal injury" in an umbrella policy will never result in payment to the insured. The increase in the limits for bodily injury and property damage in an umbrella policy will only be paid to a third party claimant and only increase the protection of the insured's assets. The increase in the UM/UIM limits in the umbrella will only be paid to the insured

I hope my lengthy responses to this post, along with those of others, will convince you that UM/UIM coverage is not a waste of money and will not benefit only the insurance carriers. It is for your protection and the protection of those who use your automobile. Given that more than 20% of all drivers in Florida have no auto insurance, compared to 14% nationwide, UM/UIM insurance is all the more important in Florida. Studies have confirmed that drivers who are uninsured or have minimum limits of insurance are far more likely to be involved in auto accidents when compared to drivers with insurance.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by lawgolfer

You appear to be confusing the additional coverage for "personal injury" in an umbrella policy with the increase in the limits for "bodily injury" in the underlying policy.

Both a homeowners policy and an auto policy cover "bodily injury" which means physical injury including pain and suffering. The umbrella policy adds a completely new coverage, that for "personal injury"

Personal injury is defined in the umbrella to include such things as false arrest, defamation, libel, slander, false imprisonment, and trespass. Some of these may cause a claimant to suffer "emotional distress". Such damages will be covered.

The "personal injury" coverage is a liability coverage. Liability insurance only pays for damages incurred by a "third party", i.e. the neighbor on whose property the insured trespassed or the contractor the insured slandered. Liability insurance, whether for bodily injuries or personal injuries, will never pay anything to the insured. It only pays the third party claimant for the harm done to him by the insured.

In addition to the coverage for "personal injury" in an umbrella policy, the umbrella will increase the limits of the underlying policies be they homeowners, auto, or both, for property damage and bodily injury. This means there will be more money to pay to a third party claimant and more to protect the assets of the insured. Again, nothing in a liability policy be it underlying or umbrella will be paid to the insured

If the insured in the underlying auto policy had UM/UIM coverage, he can increase the limits of that coverage in the umbrella policy. There is no additional coverage for UM/UIM in the umbrella policy. It simply increases the amount of money the insured can collect for injuries done to him by the uninsured or underinsured driver. The damages for which the insured can collect include the pain and suffering he incurred as a result of his bodily injuries caused by the uninsured/underinsured driver.

In summary, the coverage for "personal injury" in an umbrella policy will never result in payment to the insured. The increase in the limits for bodily injury and property damage in an umbrella policy will only be paid to a third party claimant and only increase the protection of the insured's assets. The increase in the UM/UIM limits in the umbrella will only be paid to the insured

I hope my lengthy responses to this post, along with those of others, will convince you that UM/UIM coverage is not a waste of money and will not benefit only the insurance carriers. It is for your protection and the protection of those who use your automobile. Given that more than 20% of all drivers in Florida have no auto insurance, compared to 14% nationwide, UM/UIM insurance is all the more important in Florida. Studies have confirmed that drivers who are uninsured or have minimum limits of insurance are far more likely to be involved in auto accidents when compared to drivers with insurance.

Thanks for the explanation. You make a good case for an umbrella policy for someone who has substantial assets. But, I believe that the vast majority of people do not buy an umbrella policy. Instead, they just buy the basic UM policy recommended by insurance salespeople. The policy limits on these policies are woefully inadequate to ever compensate them for "pain and suffering" after paying for medical bills and lawyer fees. I have no UM coverage, but I do have $1 million in personal liability coverage on my basic auto insurance policy. I have chosen to self-insure against "pain and suffering" rather than to buy an umbrella policy. But, if you are buying UM coverage, consider the cost versus the potential benefit, and the redundancy of coverage (medical and collision), that you are paying for with a UM policy.

[JRcorvette]

If you get in a bad accident an an uninsured driver is at fault and you do not have that coverage you will get nothing for your injuries other than the Medical coverage which is about $5,000. There are more and more uninsured drivers here is Florida than ever before.

[nn0wheremann]

Originally Posted by Lovey2

Thanks. Don't know how I missed it. Very interesting. My hubs is with you. Guess we'll drop it. Thanks again...

In most accidents, since so many drivers here are uninsured or under-insured, UM coverage is your only recourse. Medicare will cover your medical costs well, but damage to or loss of your car, funeral costs, etc are what you would expect your UM to cover. By default UM equals your liability coverage, as I recall. You can elect a lower amount, and save considerable amount of premium.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by nn0wheremann

In most accidents, since so many drivers here are uninsured or under-insured, UM coverage is your only recourse. Medicare will cover your medical costs well, but damage to or loss of your car, funeral costs, etc are what you would expect your UM to cover. By default UM equals your liability coverage, as I recall. You can elect a lower amount, and save considerable amount of premium.

Damage or loss of your vehicle is covered by collision and/or comprehensive insurance, so UM coverage would be redundant in that respect.