[Villages Kahuna]

Have we thought much about what the new apartments proposed by the Developer might look like? Consider the following...

In round numbers a 286-unit apartment building will almost certainly be larger than the independent living building at Freedom Pointe (the taller, larger building west of the Morse-El Camino Real traffic circle). Certainly it would have to be taller.

Freedom Pointe (FP) has 247 studio, one and two-bedroom apartments. The mix is towards the smaller units. None of the FP apartments has a balcony. The average size of the FP apartments is approximately 1,100 sq. ft. In addition, FP has a parking garage holding approximately 250 cars with similar space devoted to surface parking.

The FP residential building has a large dining room and roughly half of one floor devoted to resident amenities (reception desk, lobby, mail room, indoor pool, ballroom, workout facility, library, billiards, meeting rooms, wood shop, activities room, barber-beauty salon and offices). There is an enclosed grassy area with a gazebo and an outside enclosed dog park. The building has several elevator banks and a large receiving dock.

The Freedom Pointe building is four floors throughout with smaller parts being five, six and seven stories high.

The Villages-proposed apartments will almost certainly be larger than those at Freedom Pointe, more like the size of those of the Brownwood Lofts, estimated to average 1500-1700 sq.ft. They will also likely have balconies like the apartments at Brownwood. The additional size of the Hacienda Hills apartments will likely be offset by less space devoted to activities amenities such as at Freedom Pointe. The space devoted to the FP dining room and a new restaurant will be roughly equal.

It’s probably safe to say that given these assumptions, the proposed 286-unit apartment building on the former clubhouse-restaurant site would have to be 10-12 stories tall and require an underground parking facility to house a car and golf cart for each apartment. If the resort-style pool Is planned near the new apartments, that would require more space.

Will a building of that size fit on the parcel recently cleared of the Hacienda Hills clubhouse-restaurant-pool-putting green? That’s something for all of us to think about. If the Developer’s plans are for lower buildings, where would they go? How about the necessary surface parking?

Can that size project along with resort pool, nature trails and other amenities fit on the space recently cleared?

Or do the plans assume the closure of one of the Hacienda Hills nine hole courses? Was that discussed at the meeting yesterday?

The Developer was not obligated to share project plans with the AAC. All they were asking for was AAC approval of 300 new resident amenities cards. They own the property and can do whatever they choose with it.

The approval of the required zoning changes, impact studies, plan approval, etc. is for the county board to consider. All that’s certain is that we’ll be living with the result.

[tophcfa]

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

Have we thought much about what the new apartments proposed by the Developer might look like? Consider the following...

In round numbers a 286-unit apartment building will almost certainly be larger than the independent living building at Freedom Pointe (the taller, larger building west of the Morse-El Camino Real traffic circle). Certainly it would have to be taller.

Freedom Pointe (FP) has 247 studio, one and two-bedroom apartments. The mix is towards the smaller units. None of the FP apartments has a balcony. The average size of the FP apartments is approximately 1,100 sq. ft. In addition, FP has a parking garage holding approximately 250 cars with similar space devoted to surface parking.

The FP residential building has a large dining room and roughly half of one floor devoted to resident amenities (reception desk, lobby, mail room, indoor pool, ballroom, workout facility, library, billiards, meeting rooms, wood shop, activities room, barber-beauty salon and offices). There is an enclosed grassy area with a gazebo and an outside enclosed dog park. The building has several elevator banks and a large receiving dock.

The Freedom Pointe building is four floors throughout with smaller parts being five, six and seven stories high.

The Villages-proposed apartments will almost certainly be larger than those at Freedom Pointe, more like the size of those of the Brownwood Lofts, estimated to average 1500-1700 sq.ft. They will also likely have balconies like the apartments at Brownwood. The additional size of the Hacienda Hills apartments will likely be offset by less space devoted to activities amenities such as at Freedom Pointe. The space devoted to the FP dining room and a new restaurant will be roughly equal.

It’s probably safe to say that given these assumptions, the proposed 286-unit apartment building on the former clubhouse-restaurant site would have to be 10-12 stories tall and require an underground parking facility to house a car and golf cart for each apartment. If the resort-style pool Is planned near the new apartments, that would require more space.

Will a building of that size fit on the parcel recently cleared of the Hacienda Hills clubhouse-restaurant-pool-putting green? That’s something for all of us to think about. If the Developer’s plans are for lower buildings, where would they go? How about the necessary surface parking?

Can that size project along with resort pool, nature trails and other amenities fit on the space recently cleared?

Or do the plans assume the closure of one of the Hacienda Hills nine hole courses? Was that discussed at the meeting yesterday?

The Developer was not obligated to share project plans with the AAC. All they were asking for was AAC approval of 300 new resident amenities cards. They own the property and can do whatever they choose with it.

The approval of the required zoning changes, impact studies, plan approval, etc. is for the county board to consider. All that’s certain is that we’ll be living with the result.

Well thought out. I fear that space limitations will result in the elimination of Championship golf. That will be a significant game changer for many residents, and send a very loud and clear message to anyone considering paying a premium to purchase a home on a golf course anywhere in the Villages. My only saving hope is that at least some of the newer golf courses were designed as flood plains of last resort. I am not sure if Hacienda falls into this category, but if so it might prevent certain types of construction on the land?

[deano_hoosier]

Using Google Maps to measure rough envelop size. Freedom Point looks to be 380 ft x 500 ft. Using same approach on HH building space you could fit in a 230 x 750 footprint, so it seems possible to fit it in. This would still leave the practice putting green in its location. Then there is more space available if you work around the golf cart storage area, external restroom facility, as well.

[LuvtheVillages]

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

Have we thought much about what the new apartments proposed by the Developer might look like?

They own the property and can do whatever they choose with it.

The approval of the required zoning changes, impact studies, plan approval, etc. is for the county board to consider. All that’s certain is that we’ll be living with the result.

I wonder if the Developer plans to ram through the zoning changes quick before any new commissioners take their seat?

When do the new commissioners get seated? After the November election? After first of year?

[Jayhawk]

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

The Villages-proposed apartments will almost certainly be larger than those at Freedom Pointe, more like the size of those of the Brownwood Lofts, estimated to average 1500-1700 sq.ft.

It’s probably safe to say that given these assumptions, the proposed 286-unit apartment building on the former clubhouse-restaurant site would have to be 10-12 stories tall and require an underground parking facility to house a car and golf cart for each apartment. If the resort-style pool Is planned near the new apartments, that would require more space.

Will a building of that size fit on the parcel recently cleared of the Hacienda Hills clubhouse-restaurant-pool-putting green? That’s something for all of us to think about. If the Developer’s plans are for lower buildings, where would they go? How about the necessary surface parking?

Can that size project along with resort pool, nature trails and other amenities fit on the space recently cleared?

Or do the plans assume the closure of one of the Hacienda Hills nine hole courses? Was that discussed at the meeting yesterday?

The Developer was not obligated to share project plans with the AAC. All they were asking for was AAC approval of 300 new resident amenities cards. They own the property and can do whatever they choose with it.

The approval of the required zoning changes, impact studies, plan approval, etc. is for the county board to consider. All that’s certain is that we’ll be living with the result.

That's a lot of uneducated assumptions, starting with the fact that the smallest Brownwood Loft homes are 755 square feet and the very largest 3 BR is 1548 square feet. Nowhere near an average of 1500-1700 as you surmised.

[CanTho]

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

Have we thought much about what the new apartments proposed by the Developer might look like? Consider the following...

In round numbers a 286-unit apartment building will almost certainly be larger than the independent living building at Freedom Pointe (the taller, larger building west of the Morse-El Camino Real traffic circle). Certainly it would have to be taller.

Freedom Pointe (FP) has 247 studio, one and two-bedroom apartments. The mix is towards the smaller units. None of the FP apartments has a balcony. The average size of the FP apartments is approximately 1,100 sq. ft. In addition, FP has a parking garage holding approximately 250 cars with similar space devoted to surface parking.

The FP residential building has a large dining room and roughly half of one floor devoted to resident amenities (reception desk, lobby, mail room, indoor pool, ballroom, workout facility, library, billiards, meeting rooms, wood shop, activities room, barber-beauty salon and offices). There is an enclosed grassy area with a gazebo and an outside enclosed dog park. The building has several elevator banks and a large receiving dock.

The Freedom Pointe building is four floors throughout with smaller parts being five, six and seven stories high.

The Villages-proposed apartments will almost certainly be larger than those at Freedom Pointe, more like the size of those of the Brownwood Lofts, estimated to average 1500-1700 sq.ft. They will also likely have balconies like the apartments at Brownwood. The additional size of the Hacienda Hills apartments will likely be offset by less space devoted to activities amenities such as at Freedom Pointe. The space devoted to the FP dining room and a new restaurant will be roughly equal.

It’s probably safe to say that given these assumptions, the proposed 286-unit apartment building on the former clubhouse-restaurant site would have to be 10-12 stories tall and require an underground parking facility to house a car and golf cart for each apartment. If the resort-style pool Is planned near the new apartments, that would require more space.

Will a building of that size fit on the parcel recently cleared of the Hacienda Hills clubhouse-restaurant-pool-putting green? That’s something for all of us to think about. If the Developer’s plans are for lower buildings, where would they go? How about the necessary surface parking?

Can that size project along with resort pool, nature trails and other amenities fit on the space recently cleared?

Or do the plans assume the closure of one of the Hacienda Hills nine hole courses? Was that discussed at the meeting yesterday?

The Developer was not obligated to share project plans with the AAC. All they were asking for was AAC approval of 300 new resident amenities cards. They own the property and can do whatever they choose with it.

The approval of the required zoning changes, impact studies, plan approval, etc. is for the county board to consider. All that’s certain is that we’ll be living with the result.

Very well written and well thought out.

My comment is the developer already got his ducks in order and ready to build.

Does he have a " Plan B " ? Nope absolutely not, their is no need, Game - Set - Match.

Bottom line it's business strictly business.

As for the people who live in that area get use to it or move.

[tophcfa]

Originally Posted by CanTho

Very well written and well thought out.

My comment is the developer already got his ducks in order and ready to build.

Does he have a " Plan B " ? Nope absolutely not, their is no need, Game - Set - Match.

Bottom line it's business strictly business.

As for the people who live in that area get use to it or move.

I agree with your post, but feel a couple of things need to be added to put things into proper perspective.

The developers plan "B" was to present something much worse than the already bad plan that they shoved down the throats of everyone living in the area. And yes, there was really no need for a plan "B", because the developer has removed all reasonable checks and balances to their powers, making their wishes our demands. As you say, their plan is game, set, match. Screw the existing homeowners, we are on to the next source of profit.

As far as the last point, that one is very sad, but true. "Get used to it or move" you say. It appears that is what the utopia that Harold Schwartz and Gary Morse created has come to? You would think that the generation of the Morse family, the three siblings that each inherited a BILLION DOLLARS when Gary passed on, would recognize that the GOOD WILL created by their vision was not derived by trying to squees water out of a rock. Harold and Gary understood that if you listen to your clients, and cater to their needs, it will create good will and enough corresponding profits to make you rich beyond your wildest dreams. The new generation is burning up the goodwill off of the family balance sheet at an astronomical pace. I can only hope that they don't totally wipe out the great place they were so fortunate to inherit in our lifetimes.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by tophcfa

I agree with your post, but feel a couple of things need to be added to put things into proper perspective.

The developers plan "B" was to present something much worse than the already bad plan that they shoved down the throats of everyone living in the area. And yes, there was really no need for a plan "B", because the developer has removed all reasonable checks and balances to their powers, making their wishes our demands. As you say, their plan is game, set, match. Screw the existing homeowners, we are on to the next source of profit.

As far as the last point, that one is very sad, but true. "Get used to it or move" you say. It appears that is what the utopia that Harold Schwartz and Gary Morse created has come to? You would think that the generation of the Morse family, the three siblings that each inherited a BILLION DOLLARS when Gary passed on, would recognize that the GOOD WILL created by their vision was not derived by trying to squees water out of a rock. Harold and Gary understood that if you listen to your clients, and cater to their needs, it will create good will and enough corresponding profits to make you rich beyond your wildest dreams. The new generation is burning up the goodwill off of the family balance sheet at an astronomical pace. I can only hope that they don't totally wipe out the great place they were so fortunate to inherit in our lifetimes.

When this is completed and works out well and is not an eyesore I hope some of the posters will acknowledge it on this Forum.

Given a choice most people would opt for housing nicely done for those getting older than a big box store.

All of the restaurants so far in "Country Clubs" that have failed is an indication that they were not financially supported and people didn't like them and eat there enough to keep them going. People say they want this or that but it is market driven if it succeeds or fails. Restaurants are very tenuous businesses. I wouldn't be surprised to see that Orange Blossom and some of those South of 466A fail too in a year or two.

I don't think the theater that is "the toy of the developers children" will make it either. And we will have another empty building for people to fight about.

Out in the real world restaurants in Country Clubs have not done well historically. Thank Goodness we aren't being charged for food we don't eat like some members of private country clubs have been in the past. I used to enjoy Cane Garden, but not so much anymore.

Villagers want good for cheap. That is hard to provide and will get worse with the beating the economy is taking due to the Pandemic.

[Two Bills]

The family did not hold on to all the Championship Courses and Country Clubs because they like cutting grass, and cooking.
They are the biggest areas for future development, and as shown, given half a chance, they will develop.
Bigtime!

[Cherylmcdaniel]

Just a thought, many folks in The Villages do not want to move, apartment living is a nice transition and still close to their friends, shopping, dr.s, etc. I have only seen how beautiful the designs, landscaping, etc is done in each project. Many CC restaurants have failed as mentioned above, retirees needs are changing, A failed falling down building is not what I want in my backyard. Please be nice!

[CanTho]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

When this is completed and works out well and is not an eyesore I hope some of the posters will acknowledge it on this Forum.

Given a choice most people would opt for housing nicely done for those getting older than a big box store.

All of the restaurants so far in "Country Clubs" that have failed is an indication that they were not financially supported and people didn't like them and eat there enough to keep them going. People say they want this or that but it is market driven if it succeeds or fails. Restaurants are very tenuous businesses. I wouldn't be surprised to see that Orange Blossom and some of those South of 466A fail too in a year or two.

I don't think the theater that is "the toy of the developers children" will make it either. And we will have another empty building for people to fight about.

Out in the real world restaurants in Country Clubs have not done well historically. Thank Goodness we aren't being charged for food we don't eat like some members of private country clubs have been in the past. I used to enjoy Cane Garden, but not so much anymore.

Villagers want good for cheap. That is hard to provide and will get worse with the beating the economy is taking due to the Pandemic.

I do like your post, and what you have stated makes sense.

Everything that the developer does looks fantastic and I am certain that the apartments and the area will be very nice.

Times have changed and the " Toy " that you are referring to I take that it is " The Sharon ". You might be right. However once a vaccine for Covid-19 comes out all bets are off.

The Brownwood area looks terrific, plus the Hotel and Medical facility next to it is fabulous, all the planning from the Morse family.

So residents in the area I wouldn't be concerned in the slightest.

It will turn out to be just fine.

[riley2011]

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

Have we thought much about what the new apartments proposed by the Developer might look like? Consider the following...

In round numbers a 286-unit apartment building will almost certainly be larger than the independent living building at Freedom Pointe (the taller, larger building west of the Morse-El Camino Real traffic circle). Certainly it would have to be taller.

Freedom Pointe (FP) has 247 studio, one and two-bedroom apartments. The mix is towards the smaller units. None of the FP apartments has a balcony. The average size of the FP apartments is approximately 1,100 sq. ft. In addition, FP has a parking garage holding approximately 250 cars with similar space devoted to surface parking.

The FP residential building has a large dining room and roughly half of one floor devoted to resident amenities (reception desk, lobby, mail room, indoor pool, ballroom, workout facility, library, billiards, meeting rooms, wood shop, activities room, barber-beauty salon and offices). There is an enclosed grassy area with a gazebo and an outside enclosed dog park. The building has several elevator banks and a large receiving dock.

The Freedom Pointe building is four floors throughout with smaller parts being five, six and seven stories high.

The Villages-proposed apartments will almost certainly be larger than those at Freedom Pointe, more like the size of those of the Brownwood Lofts, estimated to average 1500-1700 sq.ft. They will also likely have balconies like the apartments at Brownwood. The additional size of the Hacienda Hills apartments will likely be offset by less space devoted to activities amenities such as at Freedom Pointe. The space devoted to the FP dining room and a new restaurant will be roughly equal.

It’s probably safe to say that given these assumptions, the proposed 286-unit apartment building on the former clubhouse-restaurant site would have to be 10-12 stories tall and require an underground parking facility to house a car and golf cart for each apartment. If the resort-style pool Is planned near the new apartments, that would require more space.

Will a building of that size fit on the parcel recently cleared of the Hacienda Hills clubhouse-restaurant-pool-putting green? That’s something for all of us to think about. If the Developer’s plans are for lower buildings, where would they go? How about the necessary surface parking?

Can that size project along with resort pool, nature trails and other amenities fit on the space recently cleared?

Or do the plans assume the closure of one of the Hacienda Hills nine hole courses? Was that discussed at the meeting yesterday?

The Developer was not obligated to share project plans with the AAC. All they were asking for was AAC approval of 300 new resident amenities cards. They own the property and can do whatever they choose with it.

The approval of the required zoning changes, impact studies, plan approval, etc. is for the county board to consider. All that’s certain is that we’ll be living with the result.

Can’t wait for all the extra traffic these apartments will bring. We don’t have enough yet.

[Dlbonivich]

The apartments were plan B. The residents did not want to buy Hacienda do the developer moved on. This should be a lesson for the future.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I have no doubt that whatever the developer does, they'll make it look beautiful.

I worry about the traffic.

That's my #1 worry. It is WAY too close to rte 441 and the Morse circle and the hospital to accommodate another 300 residential units. As someone who has to drive across the Boone gate several times every week for work at various hours in each direction, I can tell you there are times when traffic is backed up and potentially hazardous. Especially when an ambulance or other emergency vehicle has to rush through.

These intersections were not planned to accommodate that much traffic. I don't feel it is safe for the developer to expect these intersections to bear even more.

[TandHSTAR@AOL.com]

Thank you. I have always said people want good but do not want to pay for it. Restaurants fail because people want more than they want to.pay for. Just read some of the requests.... I am looking for a good whatever but at a reasonable price. People you get what you pay for.