[Sandy and Ed]

Originally Posted by jimmy o

As cars switch to electric gasoline tax declines, and electricity tax increases. Taxes will always be paid.

Taxes should be based on road usage (miles driven). Odometer (readings) record the data just have to collect at time of annual registration and/or resale. Perhaps require a mileage estimate for prepayment with a make-up payment at time of re-registration or sale of vehicle

[NoMo50]

Originally Posted by tophcfa

Already happening, they tax the crap out of diesel, that’s why it costs way more than gas despite the fact it requires less refining than gas.

Actually, the federal tax on diesel fuel is .24 per gallon, while the tax on gasoline is .18 per gallon. In Florida, the state tax on gasoline is .35, and the diesel tax is .20. So, at least in Florida, the tax on diesel fuel is 9 cents per gallon cheaper than gasoline. Hardly taxing the crap out of it.

[Vermilion Villager]

Originally Posted by JRcorvette

I don’t know for sure but it is coming! Remember EV’s do not pay any tax on fuel which is used to fund the roads. At some point they will be taxing you by the miles you drive. For commercial companies that cost will be passed on to the consumers (YOU). Can you see even higher inflation!

On a side note I was wondering why people purchase EV’s? What is their reason? Cost of fuel? Save the Planet? (That’s a joke in itself) What are your thoughts?

Based on your comment, me explaining all this to you would be the equivalent of explaining physics to a third grader.....I'll pass.

[Sherrilee]

Omg it’s too early in the morning for ….Math!

[rsmurano]

You will never justify an EV over the equivalent gas vehicle, short term or long term. The car costs an average of 20-50% more depending on model. I have a $50k new gas car and my buddy has a $108k Tesla s, both nice cars. I will never get my $50k back if I bought the Tesla in gas savings. Remember, electricity used for charging is not free. Maintenance costs are huge for EV’s, in 8-10 years, you will need a new battery at major expense and hazardous waste issue. If you drive all over the states for pleasure, you will never get back the time you have to sit and wait for a charger to free up and then the time it takes to actual charge your car. Also, owning an EV, you are always concerned about where the charging stations are located so you get to 1 when you need it.

[OhioBuckeye]

Probably when the govt. goes totally All EV! In 2030.

[djplong]

Someone asked "why?" about EVs... Well, 5 years ago, I took delivery of a 2018 Tesla Model 3, Long Range, rear Wheel Drive (the Dual Motor AWDs weren't out yet and nobody knew if they'd be out in time to still get the tax credit).

There are a LOT of reasons. If you're "into" all the green reasons, that's fine. For me, they're really "icing on the cake". The "green reasons" got me looking. The practical reasons made it an easy decision.

1) Price. At the time, the net price wasn't much more than a new ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) car. I won't lie - it's the most expensive car I've ever bought (though one car I bought in 1990 was more expensive if I factor inflation into things).

2) Finding Fuel. I put a level 2 charger (specifically a Tesla High Power Wall Connector) in my garage. This means that finding charging is a non-issue for me. And on long trips, I have the Supercharger network which was adequate for my needs in 2018 and has only gotten better since then. I've taken the car from my home in NH to Canada, Indiana, New York, Philly, DC, and Florida (several of those multiple times) without any issues whatsoever.

3) Cost of Fuel. I retired my Camry with 330,000 miles on it. I was getting just under 30MPG with it (round up to 30 to make the following math easier). Gas was around $3/gal here in 2018 (now closer to $3.50) so, roughly speaking, fuel for my Camry was $0.10/mile. In 2018, my electric power cost me $0.17/kWh on a 'renewables plan'. That one kWh can take my Tesla over 4 miles (about 4.5, but we'll round down). So my Tesla was costing me about 4 cents per mile to run - less than half what my Camry cost.

4) Maintenance and Repairs. No oil changes. No radiator flushes. No transmission servicing. No replacing worn out spark plugs, plug wires, fuel filters, serpentine/timing belts. Regenerative braking in my Tesla means my brakes, after 90,000 miles, are like new so no brake repair/replacement costs. Other things I've had to replace in previous cars would include the head gasket, valves, water pump, fuel pump, distributor cap, radiator (and hoses) and more. There's a LOT of money to be saved in not having to repair parts that your car doesn't have to say nothing of the lack of hassle since you're not having to make those maintenance appointments.

Even my insurance, for some unfathomable reason, went down.

Today's Tesla costs less than when I bought mine. How many cars can you say that about after 5 years? You can now get a Tesla for less than a Camry and there are other EVs that you can get for under $30K (like the Chevy Bolt but that one wouldn't work well in my use case).

Now, on a more personal level, I've put up solar panels on my home because of the ridiculous hike in energy prices last year - finally made it a no-brainer - and now the cost of fueling my car for anything less than a multi-day trip depends on how I amortize the cost of the 34 panels I have up there now. But I'm literally driving on sunshine now.

Every day I wake up to a "full tank of electrons". I've never been late for work and been forced to be even later because I forgot to get gas on the way home the previous night. The convenience is hard to quantify.

Then there's the car itself. It is the fastest, most powerful, most maneuverable, nimblest car I've ever had in my life (and I've had some turbocharged sports cars in my youth). Having the battery pack like a "skateboard" in the bottom puts all the weight down there and give you a very low center of gravity - making it far less likely to roll over. Tesla's safety ratings are the envy of the industry. One of their cars actually BROKE the machine trying to crush it (simulating a roll over accident).

The damn car updates itself. I've had all sorts of new features show up in the car after over-the-air updates. When I bought the car, I didn't have dash cam software, automatic windshield wipers, "Sentry mode" (where incidents around your car are recorded to a local hard drive), Dog Mode, Joe Mode, Netflix, Disney, YouTube (those last three are only available when parked) and so much more.

And this is all before we get to the Autopilot/Full Self Drive topic which can be the source of a lot of controversy, FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Disinformation) and misunderstanding.

So you don't have to get political to find reasons to be on the EV bandwagon. But, if I may be permitted a LITTLE bit of opinion... Even before I put the panels on my roof, I was much happier to give money to a local utility than paying an oil conglomerate to pollute the planet (I'm old enough to remember a LOT of smog in my youth). Even so, that wasn't the first reason I bought the car - you can see all the others above.

[justjim]

OP, to answer your questions: your proposal won’t happen during our lifetime so “no issue” for us. For starters, I suggest all interstate highways be turned into toll roads so those that use them pay for their maintenance. The legislation must be clear that the dollars collected can only be used for highway projects.

[KCasey]

Originally Posted by JRcorvette

I don’t know for sure but it is coming! Remember EV’s do not pay any tax on fuel which is used to fund the roads. At some point they will be taxing you by the miles you drive. For commercial companies that cost will be passed on to the consumers (YOU). Can you see even higher inflation!

On a side note I was wondering why people purchase EV’s? What is their reason? Cost of fuel? Save the Planet? (That’s a joke in itself) What are your thoughts?

I bought a Tesla about 3 1/2 years ago. I had a couple of reasons:
1) I wanted to buy it while I was still working and could afford it.
2) I like technology and wanted it because of that.

I now have a 3rd reason. As a woman, I don't want to break down on the side of the road. With a gas car that can happen unexpectedly at any time. But with a Tesla, if there is something wrong with the car, it will tell you. I just feel safer!

[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

Do you ever watch COPs? Most of the people they stop don't have a license, registration, or insurance.

It would be a pretty boring program if they DID have "license, registration, and insurance".

[Rodneysblue]

Originally Posted by Janie123

Just wondering… at what point do you think we will need to switch from a gas tax at the pump to tax per mile of driving? Currently there are approximately 1% of all cars on the road are EVs and in 2022 according to Car and Driver, in 2022, 4.6% of all new cars sold are EVs. By 2025 that number is looking to be 10% and by 2035, 35%. From a back of envelope calculation using some average numbers, 12000 miles of driving a year would be about $250 +/- in an annual tax for a standard passenger sedan.

Here’s my calculations… Let’s say for example all cars with 4 wheels and weigh between 2500 and 4000 pounds get 25 MPG. The average gas tax across the country is $.55 per gallon with CA being $.85 and MO being $.35 per gallon. Motorcycles and very light cars could pay less, larger cars/hummers/large pickups and cargo vans pay more as they do today because their MPG is much lower.

My suggestion would be to claim you mileage driven evert Yeager when you register your car and pay the tax at that time… no need for some sophisticated tracking system on each car. Of course, I’m sure the current Tesla and some of the others are already tracking miles driven.

What about the fact that I don’t drive much more than 4-5000 miles a year. How is this fair. Right now I pay my tax by how many miles I go through the amount of fuel I use. So no thank you.

[ithos]

Originally Posted by djplong

Someone asked "why?" about EVs... Well, 5 years ago, I took delivery of a 2018 Tesla Model 3, Long Range, rear Wheel Drive (the Dual Motor AWDs weren't out yet and nobody knew if they'd be out in time to still get the tax credit).

There are a LOT of reasons. If you're "into" all the green reasons, that's fine. For me, they're really "icing on the cake". The "green reasons" got me looking. The practical reasons made it an easy decision.

1) Price. At the time, the net price wasn't much more than a new ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) car. I won't lie - it's the most expensive car I've ever bought (though one car I bought in 1990 was more expensive if I factor inflation into things).

2) Finding Fuel. I put a level 2 charger (specifically a Tesla High Power Wall Connector) in my garage. This means that finding charging is a non-issue for me. And on long trips, I have the Supercharger network which was adequate for my needs in 2018 and has only gotten better since then. I've taken the car from my home in NH to Canada, Indiana, New York, Philly, DC, and Florida (several of those multiple times) without any issues whatsoever.

3) Cost of Fuel. I retired my Camry with 330,000 miles on it. I was getting just under 30MPG with it (round up to 30 to make the following math easier). Gas was around $3/gal here in 2018 (now closer to $3.50) so, roughly speaking, fuel for my Camry was $0.10/mile. In 2018, my electric power cost me $0.17/kWh on a 'renewables plan'. That one kWh can take my Tesla over 4 miles (about 4.5, but we'll round down). So my Tesla was costing me about 4 cents per mile to run - less than half what my Camry cost.

4) Maintenance and Repairs. No oil changes. No radiator flushes. No transmission servicing. No replacing worn out spark plugs, plug wires, fuel filters, serpentine/timing belts. Regenerative braking in my Tesla means my brakes, after 90,000 miles, are like new so no brake repair/replacement costs. Other things I've had to replace in previous cars would include the head gasket, valves, water pump, fuel pump, distributor cap, radiator (and hoses) and more. There's a LOT of money to be saved in not having to repair parts that your car doesn't have to say nothing of the lack of hassle since you're not having to make those maintenance appointments.

Even my insurance, for some unfathomable reason, went down.

Today's Tesla costs less than when I bought mine. How many cars can you say that about after 5 years? You can now get a Tesla for less than a Camry and there are other EVs that you can get for under $30K (like the Chevy Bolt but that one wouldn't work well in my use case).

Now, on a more personal level, I've put up solar panels on my home because of the ridiculous hike in energy prices last year - finally made it a no-brainer - and now the cost of fueling my car for anything less than a multi-day trip depends on how I amortize the cost of the 34 panels I have up there now. But I'm literally driving on sunshine now.

Every day I wake up to a "full tank of electrons". I've never been late for work and been forced to be even later because I forgot to get gas on the way home the previous night. The convenience is hard to quantify.

Then there's the car itself. It is the fastest, most powerful, most maneuverable, nimblest car I've ever had in my life (and I've had some turbocharged sports cars in my youth). Having the battery pack like a "skateboard" in the bottom puts all the weight down there and give you a very low center of gravity - making it far less likely to roll over. Tesla's safety ratings are the envy of the industry. One of their cars actually BROKE the machine trying to crush it (simulating a roll over accident).

The damn car updates itself. I've had all sorts of new features show up in the car after over-the-air updates. When I bought the car, I didn't have dash cam software, automatic windshield wipers, "Sentry mode" (where incidents around your car are recorded to a local hard drive), Dog Mode, Joe Mode, Netflix, Disney, YouTube (those last three are only available when parked) and so much more.

And this is all before we get to the Autopilot/Full Self Drive topic which can be the source of a lot of controversy, FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Disinformation) and misunderstanding.

So you don't have to get political to find reasons to be on the EV bandwagon. But, if I may be permitted a LITTLE bit of opinion... Even before I put the panels on my roof, I was much happier to give money to a local utility than paying an oil conglomerate to pollute the planet (I'm old enough to remember a LOT of smog in my youth). Even so, that wasn't the first reason I bought the car - you can see all the others above.

This is an excellent description of the advantages and benefits of EVs. And for many the positives outweigh the negatives. Especially those who have a very predicable travel schedule. But for many it would create a considerable amount of anxiety if they have to go on long trips or have to make travel plans on short notice. But the freedom of making that choice is on the chopping block as their are plans to eliminate ICE vehicles in 10 years.

It is the tyranny of forcing citizens to switch to EVs that people despise, not those who have made the decision that it is in their best interest to buy one.

[shaw8700@outlook.com]

Originally Posted by Toymeister

Lower cost of operation: fuel and maintenance

For some : better performance

To figure the mpg: the MPGe is how many miles per electric equivalent of a gallon of gas. A gallon equivalent is 33.7kwh or at SECO pricing $4.38 Using my MPGe of 121 my fuel cost is .036 per mile. Using the 2023 average MPG of 24.2 that is the equivalent of gasoline at .867.

Now would you like gas at 86 cents a gallon?

Cost: in my case I have a plug in hybrid which costs more. But the pay back is 63k e-miles. It is an easy decision to make. In the case of other models the payback can be even shorter.

What about the old batteries? Where do you dispose of them? Don’t they affect the earth?

[jimschlaefer]

Originally Posted by Janie123

Just wondering… at what point do you think we will need to switch from a gas tax at the pump to tax per mile of driving? Currently there are approximately 1% of all cars on the road are EVs and in 2022 according to Car and Driver, in 2022, 4.6% of all new cars sold are EVs. By 2025 that number is looking to be 10% and by 2035, 35%. From a back of envelope calculation using some average numbers, 12000 miles of driving a year would be about $250 +/- in an annual tax for a standard passenger sedan.

Here’s my calculations… Let’s say for example all cars with 4 wheels and weigh between 2500 and 4000 pounds get 25 MPG. The average gas tax across the country is $.55 per gallon with CA being $.85 and MO being $.35 per gallon. Motorcycles and very light cars could pay less, larger cars/hummers/large pickups and cargo vans pay more as they do today because their MPG is much lower.

My suggestion would be to claim you mileage driven evert Yeager when you register your car and pay the tax at that time… no need for some sophisticated tracking system on each car. Of course, I’m sure the current Tesla and some of the others are already tracking miles driven.

I'm voting never. but that's just me and I'm big on gas powered equipment as well

[Dantes]

It will be forced on us the world is going cashless so every time you go to the pump they know how many gallons you purchased We are no longer free in my opinion