[C. C. Rider]

Originally Posted by Pairadocs

100% now, didn't realize it had risen to that now...

Well, here's how that works. If you're a healthy 45 year old and get the covid vaccine and then die 3 days later from brain swelling and a fever of 108*, then it must have been something else that killed you and not the vaccine.

But, OTOH, if you're 94 and in a nursing home and suffering from cancer, diabetes, and emphysema and you die two days after testing positive for Covid, then Covid was the obvious cause of your death.

[Tmarkwald]

Originally Posted by C. C. Rider

Well, here's how that works. If you're a healthy 45 year old and get the covid vaccine and then die 3 days later from brain swelling and a fever of 108*, then it must have been something else that killed you and not the vaccine.

But, OTOH, if you're 94 and in a nursing home and suffering from cancer, diabetes, and emphysema and you die two days after testing positive for Covid, then Covid was the obvious cause of your death.

Well, there hasn't been a single reported or confirmed death from the vaccines yet..

[wireguy]

Glad I read this.

[EdFNJ]

Originally Posted by Pairadocs

Yes, it does kill. So does flu , slips in the bath, and systemic infection from a simple cut in the kitchen making dinner............................. etc etc

So what type of "DOC" are you a "PAIR A" to post these false equivalencies? Maybe I am wrong assuming by your user name it's medical and maybe it refers to the fact you own two boats each separately docked? If so I apologize. If it is medical do you suggest to your patients to not give their children childhood vaccines because they could die anyway from falling off the jungle gym?

[Velvet]

Originally Posted by EdFNJ

So what type of "DOC" are you a "PAIR A" to post these false equivalencies? Maybe I am wrong assuming by your user name it's medical and maybe it refers to the fact you own two boats each separately docked? If so I apologize.

Off topic, and not to be disrespectful... but this comment just made me laugh.

[drcar]

Originally Posted by C. C. Rider

Well, here's how that works. If you're a healthy 45 year old and get the covid vaccine and then die 3 days later from brain swelling and a fever of 108*, then it must have been something else that killed you and not the vaccine.

But, OTOH, if you're 94 and in a nursing home and suffering from cancer, diabetes, and emphysema and you die two days after testing positive for Covid, then Covid was the obvious cause of your death.

omg

[EdFNJ]

Originally Posted by Velvet

Off topic, and not to be disrespectful... but this comment just made me laugh.

Actually the intent was to make one grimace with a side order of pun.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by EdFNJ

So what type of "DOC" are you a "PAIR A" to post these false equivalencies? Maybe I am wrong assuming by your user name it's medical and maybe it refers to the fact you own two boats each separately docked? If so I apologize. If it is medical do you suggest to your patients to not give their children childhood vaccines because they could die anyway from falling off the jungle gym?

I too have wondered what the name means concerning "two doc's".

I will restate the question to them. Are you a Paradox or are you medical? I am not medical but I read a lot of medical stuff. I have more than once disagreed with Paira on medical stuff.

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by C. C. Rider

I haven't even gotten in line for the vaccine yet, so you are welcome to take my place as the guinea pig at any time you wish. Perhaps at some later date when I see how it's worked (or not) on all the test volunteers like you, I may decide to take it... or not.

Another advantage of not being first in line is that with all the variants of the virus going around, it's likely that those later in line will get a vaccine that covers a wider range of variants than those at the front of the line. In which case, you'll need to get in line again for your supplemental shot.

You have to get in line for another flu shot every year too, because there are different strains each year. No one complains about that. So what's wrong with doing that for Covid vacs.

[C. C. Rider]

Originally Posted by CFrance

You have to get in line for another flu shot every year too, because there are different strains each year. No one complains about that. So what's wrong with doing that for Covid vacs.

You are making assumptions without any facts to back them up. First, no one HAS to get a flu shot every year. Some people never get flu shots. Some people get them occasionally. And some people get them yearly.

Second, yes, some people do complain about getting flu shots because there doesn't seem to be much correlation between people who get the shots and people who get the flu. I know some people who never get the flu shot and never seem to be sick with the flu. I also know people who get the shots yearly, yet frequently seem to come down with the flu.

I would suggest that flu shots are probably recommended for pretty much the same people that Covid shots are recommended for... i.e. those who are elderly with comorbidities. For younger and/or more healthy and robust individuals, the flu presents very little danger (percentagewise) ... kind of like Covid.

Third, the thing that's "wrong" with getting annual shots for Covid is that this isn't what we were told in the beginning when the Covid vaccines became available. Most people seemed to believe that it was two shots and done. Now, the "medical experts" have kept moving the goalposts on us and tell us to ignore what they said a few months ago and instead do what they are saying now.

It's hard to have trust and confidence in someone who keeps saying that their advice a few months ago was wrong, but they know better today. What's to keep them from moving the goalposts yet again in a few more months? Answer: Absolutely nothing. Not only is it possible that they will move the goalposts in a few months, but I would consider it LIKELY. If you want to constantly cling to every word the "experts" say and never hold them accountable for previous things they have told you that proved wrong... well, that's your choice. I tend to be a bit more skeptical of people whose advice is constantly changing, particularly if it is contradicting their previous advice.

[CFrance]

What facts? It's a well-known fact that every year there are different strains of flu in each country that are new from the year before. It's a well-known fact that they guess what strains are going to be prevalent in any given year. Anyone who listens to news or reads newspapers is aware of this.

Variants of Covid are not unusual. Vaccines will have to adjust. We will have to get boosters. I never thought differently and am surprised anyone would think it was going to be one and done. I don't believe anyone in the medical community suggested it was going to be one and done. Where is that fact?

As far as the medical community changing their advice and strategies, that has been going on for centuries. As medical science advances and more studies are done, advice changes. Everyone always knows better as new viruses evolve. Give them a break. This is new; we are all learning. They're doing the best they can.

You said "You are making assumptions without any facts to back them up. First, no one HAS to get a flu shot every year. Some people never get flu shots. Some people get them occasionally. And some people get them yearly. " I don't understand what fact I didn't have. What I said had nothing to do with people having to get a flu shot every year. I was simply stating that each year there are different strains from the year before, and IF YOU WANT to get a flu shot, you know that it will not be a one and done. And probably neither will your covid shot.

[C. C. Rider]

Originally Posted by CFrance

This is new; we are all learning. They're doing the best they can.

That's pretty much the point I was making. Even the docs are still learning and doing the best that they can, but that doesn't mean that what they say today, or ANY day, is absolute gospel and applies equally to everyone. It simply means that it's their best guess with the available info they have at the time.

But there's more to it than that. Their public statements are intended for "public consumption". In other words, there's a healthy dose of CYA (Cover Your A**) included in every public statement.

[TimeForChange]

Originally Posted by dhdallas

Myself, my family, my neighbors, and millions of others have already had COVID and are actively (or sometimes called naturally) immune. A person who is now immune cannot get or give the disease. The COVID virus is NOT one of those diseases in which an immune person can be a carrier. Therefore we do not need to get vaccinated or wear a mask. Even if I did not previously have had COVID I would still refuse a vaccine for the reasons that follow.

Many people will argue that active or natural immunity is different from vaccinated immunity. Here is what the CDC says; “Active immunity results when exposure to a disease organism triggers the immune system to produce antibodies to that disease. Exposure to the disease organism can occur through infection with the actual disease (resulting in natural immunity), or introduction of a killed or weakened form of the disease organism through vaccination (vaccine-induced immunity). Either way, if an immune person comes into contact with that disease in the future, their immune system will recognize it and immediately produce the antibodies needed to fight it.”

The WHO (World Health Organization) had this to say. “Vaccines train our immune systems to create proteins that fight disease, known as ‘antibodies’, just as would happen when we are exposed to a disease . Even people without symptoms develop an immune response.”

Who else should consider abstaining from the vaccination? “People with underlying health conditions that weaken their immune systems (such as cancer or HIV) or who have severe allergies to some vaccine components may not be able to get vaccinated.” - WHO

“Vaccines can cause anaphylaxis and other dangerous life-threatening side effects.” - NIH (National Institute of Health)

Example: “The United States stopped giving mandatory smallpox vaccinations 30 years ago. Some people die from it; and others have serious reactions, some permanent. Scientists say it's the most dangerous vaccine known to man.” - CBS News, 60 Minutes

These new COVID vaccines containing genetic instructions were rushed into use with extremely short trial periods. According to the IFPMA, the development of novel vaccines is a long endeavor. “It takes usually between 10 to 15 years to develop a novel vaccine, as well as establishing its quality, safety and efficacy.” states the International Federation of Pharmaceutical Manufacturers & Associations.

The NIH, CDC, Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority (BARDA), and the Department of Defense (DoD) combined to find the vaccine and dubbed the project OWS which stands for “Operation Warp Speed”. - Source/NIH’s National Institute of Infectious Diseases.

So bear in mind when you are being told that this vaccine is safe that this is the same government whose EPA said the air quality at the 9/11 site was safe for the cleanup workers, the DoD who had no qualms conducting LSD experiments on unsuspecting soldiers and said there was no cancer link to Agent Orange, and for-profit drug companies who market drugs in third world countries even though the same drugs have been banned in the U.S. and Europe due to harmful side effects. From 08/30/2017 to 02/03/2021 327 drugs previously approved by the FDA as safe & effective were recalled. This information was obtained from the FDA’s official website.

My final concern is that the COVID vaccines utilize genetic engineering. Messenger RNA vaccines (mRNA) vaccines have strands of genetic material called mRNA - source/CDC

I am NOT an “anti-vaxxer” nor a conspiracy theorist. I have had the DPT, pneumococcal polysaccharide vaccine, HBV, and the zoster vaccine. I am susceptible and was routinely exposed to these diseases at my workplace. These vaccines have a proven record and were not rushed into production.

For those who have NOT already had a positive COVID test, I would carefully weigh the pros & cons of a new, relatively untested vaccine developed at “warp speed” (their words not mine) that uses genetic engineering against a virus that is just a nuisance for most people. Before you jump on me for stating it is “just a nuisance for most people” here is another direct quote from the WHO; “Most people infected with the COVID-19 virus will experience mild to moderate respiratory illness and recover without requiring special treatment.” COVID is not on a plane with Ebola, the Plague, Cholera, Malaria, or Yellow Fever. Not even close!

Unfortunately I have found that logical arguments backed by proven science (not “may happen” or “might not be”) fall on deaf ears. It is similar to having an argument over religion. The true believers have blind faith and no person will ever sway their belief no matter how sound the opposing view.

My previously published views on COVID have stirred such animosity that people have gone so far as to wish me “homeless” and that my children “die of cancer”. I have also been called a “quack”, a “know-it-all”, “part of the problem”, a “disgrace”, “brainwashed by Tr_ _p” (of course) and the list goes on and on.

I refuse to be bullied into silence when I see so many people who have been paralyzed with irrational fear and making decisions about their health based on largely one-sided views without fully examining all sides of the issue. Human beings are capable of independent thought and reason. We are not sheep or lemmings.

I am a retired RN, EMT-Paramedic with an ASN degree graduating summa cum laude, a member of 2 national honor societies, with past American Heart Association certifications in Advanced Cardiac Life Support and Pediatric Advanced Life Support. I also am a certified coroner after receiving my training at the Pennsylvania State Police Academy and served as the Chief Deputy Coroner for a county in Pennsylvania. I worked during the onset of AIDS/HIV, H1N1, MRSA & Necrotizing Fasciitis (flesh eating bacteria) and never have I seen such a level of misinformation and a bombardment of articles that focus on rare atypical cases and the hypothetical.

I only include this professional background information to distinguish myself from authors with absolutely no background in healthcare whatsoever and who state unproven theories often with no scientific support. I do not claim to be an expert, just experienced. As the actor Walter Brennan was often quoted from an old television show, The Guns of Will Sonnett; “No brag, just fact".

- David H. Dallas, RN-ASN, EMT-P, retired

When I entered the military in 1965 they injected us with every vaccine known to man at the time. I had no ill effects. Then they injected us again before going to Vietnam. None! In Vietnam in 1967, 68 we did not even know about agent orange or the other defoliates being used. My company I worked with for 35 years used the WHO to do testing on several products. They are nothing but a front for those donating millions to them so that they can pay their high priced researchers. First they tested our product on lab rats with great results and then they came back and said we need to test with hamster's. They will milk you for every cent they can. Our last POTUS was correct in pulling out. I have taken both Moderna shots along with my wife and I am thankful. Lastly my daughter in law is an infectious disease specialist MD with the CDC in Atlanta and near the top and has been with them for 15 years. Before taking the injection I talked with her. She had the shot well before we did. She nor any of her co-workers had any issues with the vaccines. These people are the experts in their field. Just fact!

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by C. C. Rider

You are making assumptions without any facts to back them up. First, no one HAS to get a flu shot every year. Some people never get flu shots. Some people get them occasionally. And some people get them yearly.

Second, yes, some people do complain about getting flu shots because there doesn't seem to be much correlation between people who get the shots and people who get the flu. I know some people who never get the flu shot and never seem to be sick with the flu. I also know people who get the shots yearly, yet frequently seem to come down with the flu.

I would suggest that flu shots are probably recommended for pretty much the same people that Covid shots are recommended for... i.e. those who are elderly with comorbidities. For younger and/or more healthy and robust individuals, the flu presents very little danger (percentagewise) ... kind of like Covid.

Third, the thing that's "wrong" with getting annual shots for Covid is that this isn't what we were told in the beginning when the Covid vaccines became available. Most people seemed to believe that it was two shots and done. Now, the "medical experts" have kept moving the goalposts on us and tell us to ignore what they said a few months ago and instead do what they are saying now.

It's hard to have trust and confidence in someone who keeps saying that their advice a few months ago was wrong, but they know better today. What's to keep them from moving the goalposts yet again in a few more months? Answer: Absolutely nothing. Not only is it possible that they will move the goalposts in a few months, but I would consider it LIKELY. If you want to constantly cling to every word the "experts" say and never hold them accountable for previous things they have told you that proved wrong... well, that's your choice. I tend to be a bit more skeptical of people whose advice is constantly changing, particularly if it is contradicting their previous advice.

Sorry but you have no clue whatsoever about any of this. Science is always evolving. You may want to look up the definition of "science" and the definition of "evolution". That may help you to understand.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by vintageogauge

And I, as a high school graduate, say WHAT?

I agree, Vintageogauge.

A recent poll from The Kaiser Family Foundation, quoted on Wesh2 News last night and this morning;

KFF COVID-19 Vaccine Monitor: February 2021 | KFF

Kaiser Family Foundation - Wikipedia