[Velvet]

Business is business. My research shows that if I had a significant sinkhole on my property the assessment etc start at $100,000 ... I can imagine how expensive the properties and the streets to fix must be at Calumet Grove... how much is goodwill worth?

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

Happiness is when your life on the outside matches your life on the inside.





New tagline????............or am I just slow at noticing???




Love it.




The opposite is true as well.

No, It's been there for a year or more. But now you have me thinking about the opposite, when the outside of my life didn't match the inside of my life.. I've experienced that too, while growing up. What started out reallllllllllllllly bad ended up great. It makes me think everybody has a history that makes them the way they are. Circumstances can change people for the better (thankfully for me), but some circumstances could leave some people in not such a good situation.



Who knows who these people are? We should try to give breaks, as long as they're not trying to bring everyone down.

[Fuzz323]

Originally Posted by collie1228

It seems to me that the level of problems here in The Villages is relatively minor. Compare our lifestyle with those in New York City with its high taxes and traffic, or Seattle or San Francisco with their out of control homelessness and high cost of living, or the Texas border towns who have had 250K of new uninvited citizens added to their communities this year already, and the Morse family's push for growth seems minor so far. Even with the push south, TV is still a great place to live.

I have a problem only with one word of your post and that would be those 250 thousand new uninvited CITIZENS who are not. A citizen is a native or naturalized person who owes allegiance to our government. Those 250 thousand or more illegals are NOT citizens but lawbreakers. I will say no more!

[manaboutown]

Originally Posted by Fuzz323

I have a problem only with one word of your post and that would be those 250 thousand new uninvited CITIZENS who are not. A citizen is a native or naturalized person who owes allegiance to our government. Those 250 thousand or more illegals are NOT citizens but lawbreakers. I will say no more!

Yup. They are illegal aliens.

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by Boomer

Thank you, Marilyn Riccio. I have been following that situation, off and on, for a while. Those people have to feel trapped and heavily stressed. I have the ability (or maybe it’s a curse) to put myself in another’s place and give thought to how they must feel. (Sometimes I wish I were callous and self-absorbed. But I do not think my personality will change after having it for oh so many decades.)

Many people in TV have mortgage-free homes. A lot of them have paid cash up front, having sold their houses up north for a tidy profit. While there is a definite comfort zone in having no mortgage, it means that the homeowner is the bank, the whole bank, and nothing but
the bank — the risk-carrier.

Each time I hear about a sinkhole, I wonder how Citizen’s bank would respond if such devastating loss landed with them because they were holding the mortgage, owning the house. (Just a thought. I have been told that I often think outside the box.)

Gracie, if I may respectfully take issue with your first sentence above about adequate insurance, I must point out that there is an enormous difference in the aftermath of the natural occurrences you use in your examples.

First of all, those of us who have been around here for a long time know that insuring for sinkholes has a checkered past. Additionally, and especially, the glaring difference is that owners of sinkhole properties, no matter how insured, seem to never be whole again. Insurance for earthquakes and lightning strikes — also tornadoes and hurricanes and such — can put the homeowner back in place in a house all back together and all is well. But when the loss is the very ground beneath the home, it is a devastating and on going loss — nothing is ever the same.

Hey, manaboutown. I have read about this over the years. Geology was my favorite science class, second place was botany. (Yes. I know. Sheldon Cooper would not consider them to be real science. )

Also, I must compliment you are you choice of sources for this one.

And, another thing, I find the go-to grasping of the word ’jealousy’ by the die-hard, all-or-nothing developer defenders to be tedious and ridiculous.

I have often, in posts here, compared owning in TV to be like owning stock in a corporation. The Lifestyle to be enjoyed is like a dividend paid by the stock. Dividend investors, by their very nature, pay close attention to what is happening to the investment itself and, of course, to the dividend. Is the dividend increasing or being cut or holding steady? The decision to buy or sell said stock lies with the owner — not with someone spewing the old, “Don’t let the door hit you in the backside” cliche.

We felt as if the investment in TV was a pretty safe one. That’s all. I have no need to dance in a conga line around the developer who does not know me any more than the CEO of any other company knows me. It’s a business — merely a business — on both ends. (my personal view)

Oh well, while I am taking up an entire page, quoting and commenting, I might as well throw in something else:

To Jazeula and Midnight Cowgirl,

I really like your posts. Your writing is insightful, smart, with a sparkle, and just the right amount of sass.

Sincerely,
Boomer

Ditto...ALL.

[graciegirl]

[QUOTE=Boomer;1653256]Thank you, Marilyn Riccio. I have been following that situation, off and on, for a while. Those people have to feel trapped and heavily stressed. I have the ability (or maybe it’s a curse) to put myself in another’s place and give thought to how they must feel. (Sometimes I wish I were callous and self-absorbed. But I do not think my personality will change after having it for oh so many decades.)

Many people in TV have mortgage-free homes. A lot of them have paid cash up front, having sold their houses up north for a tidy profit. While there is a definite comfort zone in having no mortgage, it means that the homeowner is the bank, the whole bank, and nothing but
the bank — the risk-carrier. unquote snipped

This does not explain why the builder of any community would or should be expected to repair the results of an event of nature.

Sinkhole insurance is available but may not be cheap. Neither is Hurricane insurance if you live on the coast. The builders of the home are not legally or morally responsible if they blow down.

It is really just as annoying and wrong to always find something to belittle about successful big business as it is to always defend successful big business.

THAT, I believe is on subject.

[Boomer]

Originally Posted by Marilyn RIccio

You are so correct the easement is owned by the homeowner. Sadly the Stormwater pipe in that easement collapsed causing catastrophic destruction to both Retirement homes, the road, and the property values in the neighborhood. No one has repaired the homes since 2/15/18. The neighbors foolishly turned in total desperation to the current developer in hopes he had the mercy of The Villagers Founder. Hope such an event does not happen to others As it did to two homeowners on Mclawren terrace both in their eighties. Both left their dream retirement homes, as well as, the friendliest home town.

The post above from Marilyn Riccio gives the specifics of why that particular area has had their property values hit so hard.

While, yes, the easement is owned by the homeowners, it is stated that it was the collapse of the stormwater pipes in the easement that caused the catastrophe.

I see the collapse of stormwater pipes as a problem with the original infrastructure — and who oh who was responsible for building the infrastructure.

That is the main reason why I see this situation as horribly unfair. I do not see it as being as simple as some like to make it because my interpretation is that it is not truly about who “owns” the easement. To me, it looks like the responsibility goes with the infrastructure.

Also, an earlier post of mine has been quoted out of context, leaving out the point I was trying to make. (Oh well, I think I was too subtle anyway.) In the left out part, I was simply theorizing about whether things would be different if risk had been shared by an on site bank like, perhaps, Citizens, holding a mortgage — rather than the homeowner carrying the entire risk. The power of the on site bank, if left holding a part of the risk, might have been helpful. But we will never know. All we do know is that regular people, on their own, are suffering great loss.

Anyway, just wanted to clarify my points this morning, and now I must try not to bog down in this — which was my original intention. (sigh) There are wheels within wheels in all this stuff. I need to go hang out now with people I can actually see.

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by Boomer

The post above from Marilyn Riccio gives the specifics of why that particular area has had their property values hit so hard.

While, yes, the easement is owned by the homeowners, it is stated that it was the collapse of the stormwater pipes in the easement that caused the catastrophe.

I see the collapse of stormwater pipes as a problem with the original infrastructure — and who oh who was responsible for building the infrastructure.

That is the main reason why I see this situation as horribly unfair. I do not see it as being as simple as some like to make it because my interpretation is that it is not truly about who “owns” the easement. To me, it looks like the responsibility goes with the infrastructure.

Also, an earlier post of mine has been quoted out of context, leaving out the point I was trying to make. (Oh well, I think I was too subtle anyway.) In the left out part, I was simply theorizing about whether things would be different if risk had been shared by an on site bank like, perhaps, Citizens, holding a mortgage — rather than the homeowner carrying the entire risk. The power of the on site bank, if left holding a part of the risk, might have been helpful. But we will never know. All we do know is that regular people, on their own, are suffering great loss.

Anyway, just wanted to clarify my points this morning, and now I must try not to bog down in this — which was my original intention. (sigh) There are wheels within wheels in all this stuff. I need to go hang out now with people I can actually see.

Yep...

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by eweissenbach

I think that they are very good at what they do, and deserve the wealth they have earned, but that when they are wrong it should be pointed out and subject to criticism or even recourse. Those that see the developers as perfect seem to me to have a huge blindspot, as do those who see them as wicked and greedy. I see them as successful entrepreneurs who have filled a huge need with a marvelous product, but with some minor flaws which should be pointed out and addressed.

IMHO, you always hit the nail on the head and express your thoughts succinctly.

[manaboutown]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

This does not explain why the builder of any community would or should be expected to repair the results of an event of nature.

What if the sinkhole in question was not some random event or act of nature? What if it was caused by the action or inaction of the builder or drainage pipe manufacturer? Couldn't the manufacturer of the drainage pipe be held accountable if the pipe was found to be defective? Couldn't the installer be held responsible if the pipe was improperly installed? Possible either or both entities could be liable under an implied warranty of merchantability...just a possibility here. Implied warranty - Wikipedia

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by manaboutown

What if the sinkhole in question was not some random event or act of nature? What if it was caused by the action or inaction of the builder or drainage pipe manufacturer? Couldn't the manufacturer of the drainage pipe be held accountable if the pipe was found to be defective? Couldn't the installer be held responsible if the pipe was improperly installed? Possible either or both entities could be liable under an implied warranty of merchantability...just a possibility here. Implied warranty - Wikipedia

With enough could's and couldn't's and maybe's and maybe not's..............anything is possible.





There could be a Santa Claus and an Easter Bunny.

[It's Hot There]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

With enough could's and couldn't's and maybe's and maybe not's..............anything is possible.





There could be a Santa Claus and an Easter Bunny.

Agree. His is one of the negatives you are asking Why??

I'm starting to see the negative people as having personal issues. Very sad.

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by It's Hot There

Agree. His is one of the negatives you are asking Why??

I'm starting to see the negative people as having personal issues. Very sad.

You are learning Grasshopper. With ~50 posts, early learner.


Why do other people appear to want to negative and have a dislike for TV/The Developer???


My answer use to be "Bully". I thought maybe these negative posters were Bullies in High School and have just continued their ways. Now I'm thinking quite the opposite. The always negative posters were bullied or not with the "in crowd in life". As a result, they are 1/2 full people, full of negativity and don't like the success of the Developer & family. They can hide behind a user name. Some don't even live in TV, which is mind boggling to me.



So Hottie, sit back and watch .....................

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

You are learning Grasshopper. With ~50 posts, early learner.


Why do other people appear to want to negative and have a dislike for TV/The Developer???


My answer use to be "Bully". I thought maybe these negative posters were Bullies in High School and have just continued their ways. Now I'm thinking quite the opposite. The always negative posters were bullied or not with the "in crowd in life". As a result, they are 1/2 full people, full of negativity and don't like the success of the Developer & family. They can hide behind a user name. Some don't even live in TV, which is mind boggling to me.



So Hottie, sit back and watch .....................

I hope this post stays. It makes sense to me, although I am NOT innocent. Sometimes I like to stir things up too. Everyone thinks they are on strong moral ground but that is iffy real estate from day to day.

[Boomer]

An analytical post built on specifics and showing the poster's ability to apply critical thinking skills should not be interpreted as negative and should never incite name-calling and predictable, platitudinous, pseudo-sympathetic comments from other posters.

Thinkers gonna think for themselves. Too bad that bothers some and sends them down their well-worn path of name-calling and lame implications about someone's life and happiness. Ridiculous.

Why not come back with a well thought out opposing opinion of the actual situation, complete with backup. But that is not likely to happen. It is so much easier for some to dismiss and try to cover up anything that might be leading to discomfort if acknowledgment of a different way of thinking is getting too close.

But (sigh) the wagons are circling, as usual. The thought police are on patrol. Posts are being weaponized with boring and boorish clichéd comments to try to make those with differing opinions go away. The "Us vs. Them" posters are out and in formation.

The inability (or refusal) to try to understand shades of gray in levels of varying opinions ends up with the need to dismiss and mock in order to not have to tax one's own thinking. Turning the tone of a debate toxic comes so much easier than a well thought out rebuttal -- so there you have it. Textbook stuff on how not to debate.

And soon, the thread will close. (sigh)