[justjim]

Originally Posted by tophcfa

A couple thoughts, first, don’t call it a country club, it’s a golf course. I have never been to a country club that didn’t have a clubhouse. Secondly, evidence points to the developer distancing themselves from the restaurant business and pools are a significant ongoing expense. Based on that, something resembling what was torn down will not be rebuilt. I think most people in the area would be happy as long as the multi story residential apartment complex idea is taken off the table. What would be really nice would be to add some kind of an open air market and Clubhouse like what is being built at Sawgrass Grove. If that is what the developers consultants are recommending as appropriate for future retires, why not do that at HH so northern residents can enjoy the same type of amenity. And northern residents desperately need a good place to buy fresh fruits and veggies since the farmers market at Spanish Springs is no longer. Wishful thinking I guess.

How about Condos instead of apartments? A compromise... You know “things” work better when you are willing to compromise. At least they use to!

[leejan121]

Originally Posted by Polish Golfer

I have talked with a lot of residents about apartments being suggested in place of the Hacienda Hills Country Club, restaurant and swimming pool that the developer destroyed. Not one person who I spoke with in the past months wanted apartments! The developer should built back a club house with restaurant and swimming pool. He should forget about building an apartment where Hacienda Hills Country Club was. There are so-many apartments being built around The Villages now, I just can’t understand the logic of building more. Except for creed!

I would hope the developer would consider something along the lines of Edna’s on the Green. This would give residents in the northern end of the Villages a great option. Include multiple food trucks. I don’t believe Edna’s is run by TV so lease arrangements would need to be made.

[Jayhawk]

Originally Posted by Polish Golfer

I have talked with a lot of residents about apartments being suggested in place of the Hacienda Hills Country Club, restaurant and swimming pool that the developer destroyed. Not one person who I spoke with in the past months wanted apartments! The developer should built back a club house with restaurant and swimming pool. He should forget about building an apartment where Hacienda Hills Country Club was. There are so-many apartments being built around The Villages now, I just can’t understand the logic of building more. Except for creed!

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, and if you are committed to your position, I bet a strong offer to buy the land and build what YOU see fit would be met with interest and consideration. You could get investors from the many residents who have agreed with your idea.

It's sometimes called putting your money where your mouth is. I recommend it.

Good luck.

[Villages Kahuna]

Originally Posted by tophcfa

… I think most people in the area would be happy as long as the multi story residential apartment complex idea is taken off the table…

Not a chance.

The parcel that they cleared for the planned apartments is quite small. The Developer requested amenity approval for 150 apartments. Do the arithmetic — with apartments averaging 800 sq ft, plus hallways, stairwells, elevators, lobby, maintenance and storage, resident and guest parking, landscaping, plus the promised restaurant, walking paths, exercise facilities, etc. — there is no way the project can be any less than 5-6 stories high. That would be unless they used one of the three Hacienda Hills nine hole golf courses to build the apartments and promised amenities and other facilities… and maybe even more apartments!

The Developer is committed to including sources of ongoing and increasing cash flow in their future development plans. Look at the density of the apartments at Brownwood to get an idea of the future apartment plans.

[Joe C.]

The developer is a business, and a business is in the business of making money. They own the land, and want it to generate money, so from their point of view, apartments are the answer. They generate money (profit) as long as they are occupied.
And as much as I don't always agree on what the developer is doing, it is his land, and what he does with his land is his business.

[Bolsadd]

I want a nice adult pool
A dog park that provides shade for the owners
I don’t need a clubhouse or restaurant

[Villages Kahuna]

Originally Posted by Joe C.

…as much as I don't always agree on what the developer is doing, it is his land, and what he does with his land is his business.

I think you might get a strong difference of opinion from the homeowners who paid a premium to live adjacent to an attractive restaurant, pool, golf practice facilities, etc., who are now threatened with being looked down upon by temporary Villages residents living in rented apartments.

Let me take a wild guess, Joe and Hal with another opinion below… neither of you live anywhere near Hacienda Hills CC or the planned apartments!

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

I think you might get a strong difference of opinion from the homeowners who paid a premium to live adjacent to an attractive restaurant, pool, golf practice facilities, etc., who are now threatened with being looked down upon by temporary Villages residents living in rented apartments.

IF someone paid a premium, they paid for a golf course view.
IF someone paid a premium, the premium value continues to grow in value.
IF someone paid a premium, they have not lost a dime.

[OldManTime]

Originally Posted by Polish Golfer

I have talked with a lot of residents about apartments being suggested in place of the Hacienda Hills Country Club, restaurant and swimming pool that the developer destroyed. Not one person who I spoke with in the past months wanted apartments! The developer should built back a club house with restaurant and swimming pool. He should forget about building an apartment where Hacienda Hills Country Club was. There are so-many apartments being built around The Villages now, I just can’t understand the logic of building more. Except for creed!

The Developer just might bee waiting for the Lady Lake Commission to approve Apartments, not sure, it could be.

[hal195z]

You did not talk to me. I think the apartments as described with a pool and outdoor recreation options with a clubhouse, restaurant and bar are a great idea.

[Aviator1211]

Step 1: sell people on an area of a certain population density with certain amenities. Sell the fact that the developer lives in the community.

Step 2: after selling all the lots, tear down the amenities cram as many more people into the area as possible and don't worry about the increased traffic and congestion. Move to a private compound.

[Villages Kahuna]

Originally Posted by OldManTime

The Developer just might bee waiting for the Lady Lake Commission to approve Apartments, not sure, it could be.

The parcel where the apartments have been proposed, in fact the entire country club and golf courses are in Sumter County.

The governmental unit that will consider plans, requests for building permits, etc. is the Sumter County Board of Commissioners, not Lady Lake. You may recall that the former commissioners, controlled by the Developer, approved the additional 150 amenities in a hearing lasting about half an hour. Subsequently, three new commissioners were elected and displaced three that had served for years, consistently approving every proposal made by the Developer.

It was those former commissioners who approved a 25% increase in property taxes on ALL Villages residents to pay for the new roads and infrastructure needed to continue development on the far south end of The Villages.

Three new candidates were elected in the 2020 election after campaigning to rescind that tax increase. All three were elected, displacing the “Developer’s commissioners”, taking control of the five member board, and quickly voted to rescind the tax increase as they had promised.

At this point the source of funding for the construction of roads and infrastructure to support development extending south from current Villages development has not been determined… unless the Developer pays for it, as he has in the past!

[tophcfa]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

IF someone paid a premium, they paid for a golf course view.
IF someone paid a premium, the premium value continues to grow in value.
IF someone paid a premium, they have not lost a dime.

I have to respectfully disagree with all three of the above points.

Let’s consider one of the homes on the 9th fairway of the Oaks course.

- Yes, part of the premium paid was for a view of the golf course, but part of the premium was for what is viewed on the other side of the fairway, along with living in a Country Club atmosphere. They used to see tennis courts and a pool which they had easy access to. They also saw a practice facility, and a clubhouse/restaurant. The building they looked at was a couple stories high and did not have the planned multiple story apartment complex with balconies facing their homes. A good portion of the premium they paid for is no longer there, and there is extreme uncertainty as to what will eventually be there. People pay a premium for certainty and discount value for uncertainty.

- In my opinion it is a major stretch to claim the premium value paid for the home is currently increasing given the negative changes that have already taken place, as well as future uncertainty. That is not to say the home price itself has not increased because of both home price appreciation as well as significant increases in the cost of building a new home. But that is entirely separate from the premium they paid for the home. The relevant comparison should be how has their premium increased relative to the premiums paid for similar homes on other Championship courses that have not experienced the same unfortunate turmoil.

- Again, using the proper comparison, how can it be said that if someone paid a premium, they have not lost a dime. Granted, unless one of the homes in question was purchased just before the plans for HH became public, the homes are most likely worth more than their cost basis, so technically they have not lost a dime. But again, the proper comparison would be what would the fair market value of the home be If HH was still the Country Club they bought into versus what it is now and will most likely become. I am generally not a gambler, but I would put a substantial wager on the fact the homes have lost some real value based on the proper relative value comparison.

[Gator_Girl]

I'm glad I'm not alone with my thoughts 😂

[rogerk]

Do you really want the noise and traffic a center like Sawgrass will draw in a residential area. The idea of an an appointment option, like the Lofts, in the SS area makes a lot of sense. It gives current residents a local option to stay close to their friends once they are no longer comfortable taking care of a house.